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Harassed by police for walking around my own neighbourhood

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posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by Torsion girl
Tell those cops to bugger off. Thats what you say in the UK, right?


We sure do.

'Bugger off' buys you a whole heap of trouble in that kind of situation. Beatings etc aren't common here, but the police can make live difficult for you, especially if they have too much time on their hands.

I certainly believe in being polite to the the police, but I also think questioning their motivation and demanding a reason is a right and they should expect it, not hold it against you...




posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by Blaine91555
 


In London people arn't happy with it, but that doesn't really count for much. Short of burning parliament down I don't think there's much anyone can do here that will change anything, which is really sad.

The government do what they like. I don't even think they have sinister intent, they are just lazy, want to save money and make life easier for themselves and those who work for them - police, council workers, public servants (lol) - the result is stuff like this which makes life less and less rich and free for the majority of the population.

The threat of not being re-elected is meant to keep the government in check. But with no real 'other choice' - no real opposition - they know they can get away with anything.

I want out of the UK ASAP. If any of you hot US chicks fancy marrying me - just say the word ;-) -



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by Dutty_Rag
 


To your point about them being plain clothed, i'll explain why.

Our police are basically marked on how many people they arrest and how many criminals etc they catch. (obviously i'm not spot on with that, but thats the general jist)

If they only arrest one person in an entire week in an area known for curbcrawling and drug use, their superiors are going to be asking them if they're doing their job properly.

If they went around in high visibility clothing and cars, it would likely solve the problem in that area. Then the vice would move to another area and so on and so on, and continues to be a cat and mouse game.

Now, that is why they do it undercover. They can make enough arrests and cautions etc to make their marks and grades etc whilst keeping the vice in that certain area.

Its the way our police system is run that is wrong, not what the actual officers are doing.

[edit on 9/3/09 by Liamoville]



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by QueenofWeird
 


I just check this out for you as to be honest I always just assumed it was illegal.

It's illegal to pick a girl up on a street - for you to ask her for sex for money (defined as curb crawling whether in a car or not) OR for her to offer you sex for money on the street (soliciting).

Interestingly it's not illegal to have sex with someone for money in the UK although they have plans to make this the case (not my cup of tea anyway but don't know why this law is necessary).

In all honesty, even if you are into this kind of thing, if you saw the girls on the street here you WOULDN'T want to have sex with them... Crack and heroin do awful things to the body.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 04:14 PM
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Pro active police work, perfectly acceptable.

Moving up and down a road or circling with no clear destination in an area known for drugs and prostitution is just cause for then to stop you. That's all they require under the Police and Criminal Evidence Act (PACE) 1984.

This is legislation that was bought in 25 years ago, nothing new here. It's what the police do, they had just cause to ask you (nothing more) what you were doing. I dont see the problem.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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Cops are people and because of the nature of the job they can be sometimes consumed by a power trip. But I have found that if you maintain your calm and remain polite they will eventually remember that you are a citizen and move on to their next cup of coffee. Being a Law Enforcement Officer is a tough and extremely hazardous job. Yes there are asshole cops, just like anybody else, because they have power it is never worth it to irritate them, that's just asking to have a few hours ripped out of your life while you get taken in for questioning or minor harassment of a Police Officer. If these are the guys protecting your neighborhood it would probably be in your best interest to maintain the best relationship possible with them because they are the ones who will respond to the 911 to your house when the real bad guys are at your door. Just my opinion and thanks for listening.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by Liamoville
 


Good explanation and sounds like what they are doing. This has been a 'red light' zone since the 1800's and beyond, so clearly the vice isn't being routed out.

I'm just glad I don't own my property as it would probably be pretty poorly valued with all this going on outside. I'm a pretty well built guy capable of handling myself, and I'm no prude when it comes to these things so I really don't mind it. I do object to being assumed to be part of it though!

Basically I've walked back home here and seen girls - clearly hookers - standing on street corners as cop cars just drive by uninterested.

If they wanted this to go away it would be dead easy to make it happen. The hookers aren't exactly hiding away - nor are the drug dealers and gangs...



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 04:25 PM
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reply to post by 0010110011101
 


And as I said I don't object to that bit. That isn't all they said is it.

They basically implied I was looking for a prostitute - in my mind they had no right to do that. They asked what I was doing, I was willing to tell them - why say something like that to me as well?

They weren't investigating - they had their mind made up before they even spoke to me. I bet they would have loved nothing more than to have had me kick off with them at that comment so they could have searched me.

And why only come and speak to me after being tracked for 30 mins? Were they hoping I'd commit a crime in the mean time? I feel sorry for the victim if that had happened, if I was him I'd have had some serious beef with the cops that allowed it to happen just to get an arrest.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by Dutty_Rag



They replied - and this is the scary bit:

"you have been tracked accross the CCTV network walking around this area in the last half an hour. Your behaviour looks suspicious so we need to know what your doing here"

I told them and although their response was one which I thought suggested they didn't believe me - they left me alone and drove off. Although they followed slowly behind me to make sure I went home.

Who the hell are they to pass judgement on me? I went home and felt really low that I had been branded a pervert / sex offender or whatever - and despite having done nothing wrong, had been tagged by the officers and CCTV operators as being upto no good.

In my area they have just installed 6 new cameras - basically, every street is covered in each direction over the space of about a square mile. You can't go anywhere without the cameras twitching and whirring around to follow your movements.

I find it really sinister that someone is actually sitting watching these cameras and is empowered to dispatch police to 'investigate me' on the basis of where I'm walking?

I'm now left feeling like I can't go out of my home late at night without risking the same kind of treatment. If this isn't evidence of a police state encroaching on our freedoms I don't know what is.

The whole argument about 'if you have nothing to hide then what's the problem?' holds no water. I had nothing to hide yet I still went home feeling like a criminal as a result of this ridiculous 'pre-crime' investigation squad...


Anyone who tries to argue against a Police State now is a complete fool and deserves to lose all of their freedoms.

That is ridiculous, let them try to put up cameras like that in the States, I will die before that ever happens.

[edit on 3/9/2009 by dalan.]



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by elevatedone
Originally posted by Dutty_Rag


You said it yourself... prostitution is prevelant there, so you should be glad that the police are out and watching for "johns" trying to pick women up.

You did nothing wrong and obviously wasn't arrested, so what?


You don't see the gross relevance of CCTV? I mean, if that isn't a concept right out of Orwell's "1984" please tell me what is?

Oh, that's right, its ok to crap on everyone's rights just so long as we're stopping prostitution...and protecting you from "terrorism."

[edit on 3/9/2009 by dalan.]



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by Dutty_Rag
 


Why don't you guys just revolt and smash their stupid cameras?

I would.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by Dutty_Rag
 


First off i would like to say this is my 1st post but have been reading for a bit now.. Someone please adopt and let me know how this all works please.

Last night i walked to the gas station to grab some soda, 2 police cars where at the station i went to, i walked in said nothing but nodded my head in respect. One of the 2 police officers jumped in their vehicle and left. The other staying behind like what is this fellow up to. I live in a small town with basically know(yes i say know as to what u are told) crime. Anyways back to basic.

The second police officer, after i left and was walking home stopped me as i was outside and asked me for photo id and asked where i was going.. I then thought hey maybe at 1:40 am I look suspicous, but working 3rd shift anyways i was like wtf? In conpliance i showed my id and nothing more was said. Is this invasion on my basic freedoms as a free man?



I cant even walk to get a soda pop anytime i feel the need when there is a gas station open 24/7?

I understand there will be crime rate reports as the economy worses, but still i felt violated.

[edit on 9-3-2009 by lighter78]



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by Dutty_Rag
 


You didn't mention what time you were walking around.

This happens all the time here. If your in a bad neighborhood and you don't look like you belong there, you get questioned. It either means, your lost and they need to get you out. Or your buying drugs or prostitutes.

yet, if they didn't go around questioning people who are suspicious, the police would be accused of being lazy and not doing their jobs.


If you are not guilty other then craving a burger, I fail to see the problem here.

"officer, I reallly just want a burger, and all the stores are closed."

Is all you had to say.

[edit on 9-3-2009 by nixie_nox]



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 05:07 PM
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I've met good cops and bad cops, and since I'm in texas, you can guess which one is which by the girth of his gunbelt. Ultimately, it is up to the policeman how to approach a person on the street. If he has an attitude, then that's his problem. I don't know how things are in the U.K., but here the cops are recording the conversations they have with people they question just to cover their legal behinds. Most of them are okay folks really. They just don't know if they're coming home that night, which really sucks. At least in my profession, I know I'll survive to clock out. Yes, there are some absolute d!#ks out there, but believe it or not, there are some good ones there as well. It just takes one bad experience to tarnish the image of the men and women who protect us from the real bad guys. If you see a cop in a coffee shop or whatever, smile, say hi, ask how his day or night is going. you'll find he's a human too, with bills to pay and kids to take care of just like all of us. I'm not a cop, but I've talked to many of them at 4 am when I would be waiting for our transport truck to come in so we could start our day. Yes, the world is getting more frightening, and having cameras watch you come and go and scratch your backside is a terrible way to live, but ultimately it will boil down to that cop who talked to you in the middle of the night, who you either smiled and talked to or who was a jerk to you. Yes, report the punk, but don't hold his sins against all who put themselves in harm's way to keep us safe. the powermad putzes need to be purged so the cops who stand by honor can do their jobs. it takes one a$$h@le to equal twenty good ones.



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by dalan.
 


When I saw them constructing new cameras around my building it crossed my mind! I was furious. But you'll be pleased to hear that all the cameras in my area are covered by other cameras! YES you heard that correctly - another layer of 'protection'. So if you tried to destroy one, you'd be recorded in the act by another.

Also, if you wore a mask, don't forget the whole are is covered so they'd no doubt track your escape and have several police cars waiting. Or even the heli which I'm hearing more and more often...

Now all four sides of my building are covered - I can't leave my home without being watched - literally! Honesty - I don't want it on tape when I bring a date back to my apartment, what if my girlfriend saw them!

I don't currently have a girl and I'm not a cheat - but you can see my point - my private business shouldn't be on camera. Not all non illegal behaviour is necessarily morally innocent. People often have a lot to hide, but as long as its not illegal shouldn't they be allowed to keep it hidden if they see fit?



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


It was early morning after a night out.

And I made the point earlier that where I live, despite it being a bad area, it's also a main area to walk through for people coming to and from a popular night club district. So even at that hour, there are a lot of other reasons to be there besides drugs and sex.

Either way - its the monitoring and the 'assume guilty' attitude that got to me. Not the being asked what I was doing.

I don't like the whole 'stop crime before it happens - at any cost' principal.

I'm a young guy, looking for a burger after partying a little - yet I went home feeling like a dirty pervert because a cop decided he had the right to judge me.

'Are you looking for prostitutes' is judging and implies they have made up their mind.

'What are you upto' is fine ....


It was just the way he said it - I felt I had to defend myself and that made me feel icky...



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 05:31 PM
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This is how I would have responded:

-----

MALE POLICE OFFICER: "What are you doing, looking for prostitutes?"

ME (MALE): "No thanks, I'm not gay."

-----

FEMALE POLICE OFFICER: "What are you doing, looking for prostitutes?"

ME (MALE): "No thanks, you're not my type."

-----




posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 05:39 PM
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reply to post by harrytuttle
 


Ha ha, I wish I'd thought of that. I think that would have been a cool way to diffuse the situation and would prob have ended with me going home feeling quite pleased with myself!



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 05:43 PM
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We have a responsibility to enforce our rights. If we do not the police will progressively trespass on them. In Canada if we are not involved with a crime we have the legal right to not provide our identification. We do have the right to ask for an officers ID which he can refuse but then cannot act as a law enforcement officer.

I never provide my identification and I always ask for theirs. I make it as difficult and painful for the officer to confront me as law will allow. When they ask where I’m headed I say “that direction” when they ask where I’m coming from I say “back that way” and when they ask what I’m doing out here I say “walking”.

The reason I do this is twofold. Primarily the reason police states develop is because the people let authorities push beyond their legal rights until it becomes culture. The second reason is that invariably, when I enforce my rights the police protest and harass me and that is unacceptable, it is against the law, and it is not why they are employed.

I spend several hours a week in city parks at night observing and photographing nocturnal wildlife behavior in close proximity for exercise some of my images. Because of this I am confronted by the police at least once a month. They want to know what I am doing in the park at night. That is fine but when I exercise my legal right to not tell them they break the law by trying to kick me out of a park that is open 24/7, they expend huge resources by calling for backup and trying to get my name for half an hour, and they only do this because they don’t like the fact that I have the will to stand up for my rights. It deteriorates so badly at times that it has turned into the officers screaming profanities at me (also illegal in a public place) and I have even seen them back toward their cars, yell a response while they are getting in and slamming the door closed so that they get the last word in before pealing off with screeching tires (also illegal). For the record I have never had to leave the park (empty threats). They do not expend this energy while driving past all the drug dealers illegally loitering on the street corners all night but then again they already know who their daddy is so it’s just not fun.
If nothing else at least they will think twice and exercise some decorum the nest time they question someone.

And honestly I can’t imagine having to go about my business with a cop looking at me through a camera all day. The sad thing is that it is coming to Canada too because the majority of people here take it on faith rather than research the implications. If we accept that cameras everywhere is ok, when the next more intrusive technology comes along there will be no stopping it (if we're even aware of its use).



posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by Dutty_Rag
 


You know what would be really funny would be if you convinced your friends and neighbors to all wear masks.

That would be a hoot.




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