Harassed by police for walking around my own neighbourhood

Originally posted by elevatedone


You said it yourself... prostitution is prevelant there, so you should be glad that the police are out and watching for "johns" trying to pick women up.

You did nothing wrong and obviously wasn't arrested, so what?

I disagree. your trying to fix one symptom of the disease. Pick the pros up instead, then the johns have no reason to be out there in the first place. If they have the means to track you walking for 30 minutes, then they have the means to track the pros.

I hate being questioned myself, and if they were watching and noticed that you didn't talk to any, they have no reason to believe that you were actively seeking any.

reply to post by Dutty_Rag


So it really is that bad in London. I recall watching a story on the news taped in one of the rooms where they monitor the camera's. Gave me the chills. They were yelling at people over speakers for things like dropping litter. I remember one woman dropped something like a crumb or food and did not know it and got yelled at. It was the most Orwellian thing I've ever seen.

Whatever happens there, comes here to the US eventually. I expect camera's to start popping up here soon. They will get lots of opposition here I expect.

A while ago they installed some of those sensors for the fire trucks and EMT's so they could change traffic lights green while on emergency runs. Some got it into their heads they were camera's and people threw a fit. Had they been camera's they would have had to take them down I'm sure. How do people in London react to this?

Why should I have to justify myself to the police when I have done nothing wrong?

The (apparent) lack of a destination coupled with backtracking along the same route lent itself to suspicious behavior. So, once satisfied, they went on their way. It was the backtracking that made them stop you.

And you don't have to justify yourself. There's no "curfew" and no law against just walking around on public right of ways.... They were just hoping you would justify it...

Personally though, it seems there are far more important crimes than prostitution to focus on, and they could be better utilized in the pursuit of those crimes instead...

I have to take the ops side on this one.

Unless there is some kind of interaction between 2 people whether it be monetary or otherwise I really don't see how walking down and around the street is a problem.

Funny, around here they don't bother with someone walking down the street but they always go after the vehicles driving around after the bars close.

Nothing to worry about if you have nothing to hide?

I have something to hide.

My privacy.

reply to post by Dutty_Rag


Is prostitution illegal in the UK. The other day I saw somebody on a BBC program saying that it isn't. If it is not illegal they should not have harrassed you at all and if it is they need to put signs with: NO FOOD HERE ONLY WHORES. NOTE THAT YOU ARE BEING WATCHED BY OUR 24/7 CAMERAS. BIG BROTHER KNOWS WHAT YOU ARE UP TO YOU FILTHY SCUM BAG.

I can understand you felt humiliated. I am a Dutch and as such a huge lover of freedom and live and let live.

Maybe next time you feel peckish you can roam that area in drag

This is some disturbing stuff, sorry to hear of your troubles friend.
I'm thankful that i live in the States, where these kinds of things happen with far less magnitude for the most part. I can walk down the street anytime at all hours of the night, and 9 times out of 10 if I am bothered by anyone it will just be a homeless person asking for change....disturbing in itself, but at least the cops around here don't really pay any attention to me. We definitely have our own set of problems in the States, but at least I can generally go about my business without a care most of the time.

You were stopped in an area know for prostitution and asked a couple of questions.

Big Deal.

I hardly consider that harassment.

reply to post by scratchmane


I believe this was recently made illegal in the UK. Recording a police officer in anyway is now a crime under the latest bout of anti terror crap.

(If it isn't illegal now it will be soon as it has definitely been passed by parliament)

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by elevatedone

 

I guess I just don't have a problem with all the cameras and extra police presence.

You’re being sarcastic right?

If not - why are you a moderator (super no less) on ATS?

ATS is to DENY ignorance, not go along with a police-state cause you just *don't have a problem* with it...

edit:

This is a horrid example of a police state at it’s worse.

Someone who can’t even walk around without being tracked via camera and harassed?

That is just INSANE police state.

What the hell...
I’m not even in the UK (thank God) and I can assure you I wont be going there in the future.

I’ve done nothing wrong, I’ve got nothing to hide, but I’ll be damned if I’ll live whre I’m treated like I do!

peace


[edit on 9-3-2009 by silo13]

Are youbeing sarcastic? Insane police state? They pulled up and asked him a couple of questions. Someone else said it was even harassment! OP did exactly what they should have done. Answered their questions and moved along. That was not an "insane police state" or harassment.

Let's say for example, it was someone other than the OP they were watching and they decided not to ask him anything. Then, the guy breaks into a place and kills a couple of people. The first thing people would ask was "Why didn't the police stop him? They were right there!! Why didn't they ask what he was doing there?? Anything!"

By the way...how's the tissue paper skin working out for some of you?

According to Wikipedia (if correct):

In the United Kingdom, prostitution itself (the exchange of sexual servicies for money) is not illegal, but several activities surrounding it (such as solicitation in a public place, pimping or operating a brothel) are outlawed.

So there you are. Unless they suspected you to be the whore, you were doing nothing interesting at all.

reply to post by Liamoville


Maybe - but there's a difference between some guy on CCTV saying 'hey guys - we've got a guy walking around - lets keep an eye on him and have the police standing by incase he 's gonna do something' AND them actually taking action and aggressively confronting an innocent guy who's done nothing wrong.

I think a lot of people here are missing the point. I don't object to the fact the police maybe took an interest in me. I object to being treated like a criminal when I've done nothing wrong.

This wasn't a friendly 'are you OK?' it was a 'what are you doing here at this time' and a 'go home now' ...

Essentially I was ordered to go disperse for no reason... I'm not sure that's even legal to be honest.

Someone else said "i should only feel dirty if I'd done something wrong'. Sorry but that's not true. Someone implies your into that kind of thing, you feel bad. Imagine if a colleague at work / school friend accuses you of something like that. It doesn't feel good right?

Despite all this, I respect the police and I feel just the same as if anyone else I respected had implied something like this. I felt like I had broken the law because of the way they spoke to me - and that doesn't feel good to me.

Also just wanted to address one last point that I think a female poster brought up.

"I would feel differently if I was a vulnerable female who was walking through an area and the police were taking an interest"

In honesty I probably would, but I still don't think this justifies the tracking etc. I think when preventing crime involves assuming criminality - or even 'fishing' for criminality by questioning/searching apparently innocent people (whatever the circumstances) then it's not acceptable.

I think the proper course of action in this case would have been for the CCTV operator to contact the police, for them to do a quick drive by, and maybe watch me. I don't object to that. Then, if I did commit a crime, they can respond. If not, no harm done, I just go home non the wiser.

reply to post by BRQuick

Are youbeing sarcastic?

No.

Obviously.

After being watched on camera for 30 minutes while you don’t exhibit anything more heinous than walking home - and on the way you’re pulled over and harassed by the cops (undercover at that)...???

If you can’t see this is living under police rule...If you can’t see the slap-in-the-face-obvious (at that point) living under the thumb of sickness?
Then Big Brother has won.

peace

[edit on 9-3-2009 by silo13]

One more thing that disturbs me here:

The police were plain clothes in an unmarked car. Surely it would be better to have a highly visible police presence in such an area to discourage illegal activity? As I live in this area I would certainly encourage that.

The fact they were undercover suggests they would rather have the crime happen, and apprehend someone than discourage it in the first place.

That doesn't sound like it's in the potential victims best interest. If this situation had played out differently, I could have been walking by and attacked by someone.

Sure the police might have been around to apprehend the guy - but if they had been there in a black and white then the attack probably wouldn't have happened.

Originally posted by Dutty_Rag
reply to post by Liamoville

 

I think a lot of people here are missing the point. I don't object to the fact the police maybe took an interest in me. I object to being treated like a criminal when I've done nothing wrong.

I agree with you here. It sounds less like a "police state" and more like a couple of butthole cops that were bored and on a power trip. THAT I can relate to.

Originally posted by Dutty_Rag
One more thing that disturbs me here:

The police were plain clothes in an unmarked car. Surely it would be better to have a highly visible police presence in such an area to discourage illegal activity? As I live in this area I would certainly encourage that.

The fact they were undercover suggests they would rather have the crime happen, and apprehend someone than discourage it in the first place.

That doesn't sound like it's in the potential victims best interest. If this situation had played out differently, I could have been walking by and attacked by someone.

Sure the police might have been around to apprehend the guy - but if they had been there in a black and white then the attack probably wouldn't have happened.

Agreed. It's no different here. They'd much rather catch solicitation than deter it.

reply to post by noonebutme


Maybe that's correct.

But in that case, I want the right not to answer their question and say 'What I'm doing is none of your business'.

I think in this case saying that would have resulted in my being stopped and searched under anti terror law (i.e. no probably cause required).

Fact is whether they are being friendly or not. Any attempt to question someone is violating their privacy.

I'm quite happy for the streets to be slightly less safe in order to protect my privacy - and that comes from someone who has been mugged twice in two months since moving to London.

Originally posted by silo13
reply to post by BRQuick

 

Are youbeing sarcastic?

No.

Obviously.

If you or anyone - I don't care who - doesn’t think being watched on camera for up to 30 minutes before being pulled over is a police state then guess what, Big Brother has won.

peace

I guess it's just what the world has come to.

But, which is worse?

Being watched when you're doing nothing wrong, but catching criminals in the act of committing a crime or beforehand as a result of the general watching of people?

Or, not being watched (still doing nothing wrong), having crime run rampant and only catching a few here and there, more than likely after the crime has been committed?

I worked at a Nuclear Power Plant, and I watched people all day long on CCTV's...whether they were doing wrong or not. Now, granted, that's a private facility, but the premise is the same.

I really just think the OP found himself a couple of cops that were a-holes...and decided to prove it.

reply to post by crmanager


See my previous reply above. Seriously - if I had refused to answer I would have been searched - that's how the Uk is now.

And I won't be complaining when the next explosive device goes off. These things happen and no amount of 'stop and search powers' and 'extra CCTV' will prevent someone intent on making it happen.

I grew up in the UK through the troubles in Northern Ireland. We suffered many more terrorist attacks than we do now and there was much more tension on the streets and real danger with regards being blown to bits as you went shopping on a Saturday.

We didn't need any of these ridiculous and draconian laws then? Why do we need them now after just one isolated attack and some half backed attempts that were picked up by MI5 (not using any of their new powers by the way) in the early stages of planning?

If you think these laws in the UK - and their 'patriot act' counter parts in the US are 'necessary' and are somehow keeping you safe - you seriously need to pull your head out of the sand before its too late.

reply to post by Dutty_Rag


Those cameras start going up in my neighborhood here in America, there are going to be lots of broken cameras and repairs to be made.

People better wake up, this is not alright. If they want to police the streets, then put more police out there. But don't put up 100's of cameras, we don't need big brother watching from a distance.

These Government watchdogs are sick people who will burn in the deepest darkest corners of hell.