Two die in 'barbaric' Army attack

Originally posted by Dermo


You were right in your first post.. the Real IRA are scum.. they do not really want a united Ireland.. they probably used this as a smoke and mirrors operation for a big drug deal. I hope they are caught and dealt with properly.

Also, the Real IRA are not the IRA. The ceasefire should not be broken by
the British because of this tiny group of blood thirsty gangsters

they are no better or worse, and they all infest the same communities, if the "real" IRA (ie the provos) was that bothered details of those involved would be forwarded to the police.

I cannot see how this set of scum is any worse than Gerry Adams' set of scum, a quick look at their atrocoties (La Mon, Shankill, Enniskillen) would equal anything the "REAL IRA" can muster.

Gerry Adams will not admit it is murder, because to do so would be to admit leading an organisation of murderers

Looks like the Real IRA have struck again, security alert at a Sinn Fein office;



BBC NI

reply to post by blueorder


As far as I know, and from my own point of view, the Troubles were a war of sorts.

Land occupied by enemy forces....guerrilla war to free said land.....

So from that point of view, with the targets normally being enemy personnel, hence why Sinn Fein do not see it as murder, but casualty of war.

Don't get me wrong....there were many many many civilian casualties including women and children on both sides of the conflict. No matter where you come from you cannot justify that.

I just say this from my own point of view growing up in NI.

I find it incredible that they could think that any member of the general public in NI would support such an act after so many blissful years of peace.

Incredible but sadly there are quite a few who do support it. A whole generation of youngsters have grown up, heard stories and made up their minds about what they are going to do about the whole situation - even the exiles in Scotland who support Celtic F.C. chant "UP the RA" at every match.



Now I wonder what they'd do if a bunch of Muslims were chanting "Ooh ahh Al Qaeda"?

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by PaddyInfIt may be argued that the British don't have the best response to troubles in my country, but that's another debate.

I'm one of the "British", like the majority of the people in NI, if these republicans want "BRITS OUT", they will have to try and force me and my family out- good luck with that

Well said. Northern Ireland exists purely because those good people wanted to remain British. If the Real IRA (remember this is nothing to do with Sinn Fein or the IRA) start to attack soldiers, etc, the British government will have no option than to put sqaddies back on the streets. Nobody wants it but that's what will happen.
What I think will happen is that you will have the bizarre situation where the IRA terrorists who gave up the armed struggle, will arm themselves and go after the Real IRA to make sure that they don't threaten the peace and the good work that Paisley, Adams, etc, have done. It will be ex-terrorist verses new terrorist!!!!
Proof, if ever it was needed, that we do indeed live in a very strange world.

"Condolences to the families of the bereaved."

reply to post by Goathief


ahmm.......lets be honest here, ok, I, being a Celtic fan will tell you that this is a very small minority who are despised by the regular supporters and the club as a whole.
Celtic have very strong and deep links to Ireland and some minority of fans use that to sing their bile at the games. These people are banned and arrested when caught.
There are elements of all football teams who are racist/sectarian, etc, but I think you are well out of line for posting this.

This has nothing to do with the OP, and if you would research the other side of the coin, you will see that Rangers (Celtic's rivals) have a much more open and vocal sectarian support, with various Loyalist and Unionist financiers from NI.

Celtic are a non-sectarian club.

Originally posted by celticniall
reply to post by Goathief

 

ahmm.......lets be honest here, ok, I, being a Celtic fan will tell you that this is a very small minority who are despised by the regular supporters and the club as a whole.
Celtic have very strong and deep links to Ireland and some minority of fans use that to sing their bile at the games. These people are banned and arrested when caught.
There are elements of all football teams who are racist/sectarian, etc, but I think you are well out of line for posting this.

This has nothing to do with the OP, and if you would research the other side of the coin, you will see that Rangers (Celtic's rivals) have a much more open and vocal sectarian support, with various Loyalist and Unionist financiers from NI.

Celtic are a non-sectarian club.

Got to agree here. Trying to tar all Celtic fans as being pro IRA is insulting and offensive. Every football club has it's fair share of idiots but they don't represent the club or it's reall supporters. I think you should retract this and apologise.

Originally posted by celticniall
reply to post by blueorder

 

As far as I know, and from my own point of view, the Troubles were a war of sorts.

Land occupied by enemy forces....guerrilla war to free said land.....

So from that point of view, with the targets normally being enemy personnel, hence why Sinn Fein do not see it as murder, but casualty of war.

Don't get me wrong....there were many many many civilian casualties including women and children on both sides of the conflict. No matter where you come from you cannot justify that.

I just say this from my own point of view growing up in NI.

paedophiles would "view" their actions as legitimate sex

Originally posted by celticniall
This has nothing to do with the OP, and if you would research the other side of the coin, you will see that Rangers (Celtic's rivals) have a much more open and vocal sectarian support, with various Loyalist and Unionist financiers from NI.

Celtic are a non-sectarian club.

Celtic were founded as a specifically catholic club, Rangers were not founded as a specifically protestant club, so I would ease up on the mythical celtic view that they are somehow "better" than Rangers in terms of sectarianism

FFs, Rangers are even offering support to the GAA these days

reply to post by celticniall


I'm well out of line for posting a video that shows the truth of the amount of support the IRA currently has?

It's very much related to the thread, it's the reason why the pIRA think they can get away with these cowardly murders of British soldiers. Just because it shows your chosen club in a way less than favourable light doesn't mean it shouldn't be shown at all.

I never stated that ALL Celtic fans were supporters of the IRA - lets make that clear - but as you can see there are way more than a tiny minority singing! How many thousands?!

[edit on 9-3-2009 by Goathief]

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

Got to agree here. Trying to tar all Celtic fans as being pro IRA is insulting and offensive. Every football club has it's fair share of idiots but they don't represent the club or it's reall supporters. I think you should retract this and apologise.

how about this, there are more fans of Celtic who sing songs about the IRA than any other football club in the Britain, and by a considerable margin

Ok,

let's not drag up the history of Northern Ireland, I was raised in England because of the violence in Belfast. Let's not relive the past in this thread.

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

Got to agree here. Trying to tar all Celtic fans as being pro IRA is insulting and offensive. Every football club has it's fair share of idiots but they don't represent the club or it's reall supporters. I think you should retract this and apologise.

how about this, there are more fans of Celtic who sing songs about the IRA than any other football club in the Britain, and by a considerable margin

Yes, agreed, but even while there was relative peace in Northern Ireland you would still occasionally hear a chant from English grounds of , No Surrender To The IRA. All I'm saying is that you cannot tar everyone with the same brush. You could just of easily posted a video of Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal etc, fans chanting something along the same lines.
This is already a very emotive topic and bringing fottball into it only heightens the tension.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Yes, agreed, but even while there was relative peace in Northern Ireland you would still occasionally hear a chant from English grounds of , No Surrender To The IRA.

although such a chant is not the same as a pro IRA chant, that chant is a positive one, we shall never surrender to them, whatever "prefix" they use

[edit on 9-3-2009 by blueorder]

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
You could just of easily posted a video of Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal etc, fans chanting something along the same lines.
This is already a very emotive topic and bringing fottball into it only heightens the tension.

If you can find one, go ahead - it just reinforces my point that there is still widespread support of the IRA.

The topic is not football, it's about the pIRA's attack on these soldiers - someone doubted there would be much support of their actions and I posted evidence to the contrary. I fear that this latest attack will start a whole new wave of trouble, aided by the current financial climate - no doubt IRA propagandists will be blaming the recession on the Brits or how they'd be better off during it without them.

When times are hard all it takes is a little nudge and people will be ready to shift the blame and carry out atrocities for stupid reasons.

reply to post by Goathief


When times are hard all it takes is a little nudge and people will be ready to shift the blame and carry out atrocities for stupid reasons.
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You're not wrong there but what I would say to you, and blueorder, is that the hatred and bigotry, from both sides, has to stop before peace will really take hold. Enough people have died already in this bitter feud. I say no more. It's not about being Catholic or Protestant, or past attrocities. . . you should be looking to the future and promoting Ireland and it's people.

Originally posted by blueorder
they are no better or worse, and they all infest the same communities, if the "real" IRA (ie the provos) was that bothered details of those involved would be forwarded to the police.
I cannot see how this set of scum is any worse than Gerry Adams' set of scum, a quick look at their atrocoties (La Mon, Shankill, Enniskillen) would equal anything the "REAL IRA" can muster.
Gerry Adams will not admit it is murder, because to do so would be to admit leading an organisation of murderers

Yes, yes.. but by that mentality.. everyone who ever had anything to do with either side of war throughout history is a war criminal. Whats the difference between the "Gerry Adams set of scum" and the "British/Americans set of scum politicians".

Jerry Adams was in an unconventional war for his peoples rights.. not murder. I would never condone what the IRA did but I understand their point. If you are English, then I can understand where your opinion stems from.. But, you should also try and understand the conditions that pushed these people to do these things.

Also..

Because of the definition of terrorism, Governments define terrorists.. the British government doesn't deal with terrorists but the British government deals with Gerry Adams and co..

Therefore, the British government proved his cause was legitimate.

reply to post by Dermo


I agree with most of what you said until you came out with this;

"Because of the definition of terrorism, Governments define terrorists.. the British government doesn't deal with terrorists but the British government deals with Gerry Adams and co..

Therefore, the British government proved his cause was legitimate.
"

The British government deals with Gerry Adams because he was voted into parliament by his devotees and fellow Sinn Fein members. Since Sinn Fein publickly went against violence and helped the IRA to disarm he has every right to take his seat in parliament and represent his people. He does not represent terrorists!

Just because football fans chant something like that, does in no way support the theory that there is widespread support for a terrorist organization.

Do you really think any of these people would support another war in NI?

These people are mindless when it comes to football chanting, a few people start it, and before you know it a thousand people are doing it, just to make noise.

They are not really IRA supporters, nor supporters of murder.

Yes, it irritates me that the club I support is dragged into a discussion about murder in NI by dissident Republicans. It has nothing to do with it and it does not indicate "widespread" support for these murdering scum.

The IRA


wow - WHICH IRA is it...

Provo`s? Offical? Real? Continuity?


all of the above are the `IRA`

if its the Real IRA - they are nothing more that thugs pretending to wave a banner - they attack and kill who ever they want - Sinn Fein , Catholic PNSI officers and of course


Omagh


yes this is the same `group` that gave false information 3 times and people actualy ran towards the bomb

and blew up the 9 children standing next to it , catholic and protestant children , believeing they were safe.

so before you all `fly the flag` for these thugs , remember they kill anyone , of all religions, colour and background - rob banks and sell drugs.

not exactly a `freedom fighter` , just a common criminal and a bunch of thugs trying to live on the `glory days` to cover common crime

they even attack the provo`s - well they would since the `RIRA` were kicked out by them in the 80`s...

edit: spelling

[edit on 9/3/09 by Harlequin]