Christianity you have now overstepped the mark and I now declare war upon you

Originally posted by ngchunter

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by ngchunter

 

NO, you are very mistaken in your comment friend.

I did not teach my daughter ANYTHING about religion, she has made that judgement herself without any influence from me or her other father for that matter.

If you think that the "historical evidence" shows that christians can't talk about their beliefs intelligently without resorting to violence, you're either deeply mistaken or your information is wrong,
[edit on 7-3-2009 by ngchunter]

You're correct, certainly in between Christians they came have intelligent conversation, but in between Christians and people of other faiths it will always amount to an argument.

It's sad that you did not see that my reference to bloodshed was simply a metaphore for the millions upon millions of people killed in the name of "your" god.

~Keeper

reply to post by Revealation

if I want to do something or learn about something I go look for it. I think you should be more concerned with all the advertisments and mailings being forced upon you in your own home. When you sit in your private residence the telivision is spewing out negative, brainwashing,

That's right my friend good job I don't let my kids sit in front of the TV all day then.
They can get all the brainwashing at school it would appear

subliminal messages and you declare war against Christians.I thinmk we have bigger problems in the world.

What like all the wars that are caused by religion ?

Remember that........ in war people die.

In war freedoms are preserved, I'm preserving my freedom from a religious cult that would dictate how me and my family should live our lives.

What's that place called in the middle east, as yes Iraq. Well you see in Iraq there's some religious people who want to dictate to another group of people how they should live their lives which is according to their religious belief. So the other the other group of people, go to war against the people in Iraq and kill them to try to stop them doing this.

I'm doing much the same thing, except I choose to use words instead of depleted uranium and such other horrific ways to try and stop other people telling me or mine how we should think or live.

reply to post by moocowman


If you're going to use Fred Phelps, a man who doesn't even live by what he claims to believe, as being representative of christians in general or even a significant percentage of christians, you're no better than christians who suggest that atheists like Stalin, Mao Zedong, and Pol Pot are representative of the rest of you.

reply to post by ngchunter


Well that is one thing I will have to agree with you on. You are right in saying that these people do not represent Christians as a whole.

~Keeper

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
You're correct, certainly in between Christians they came have intelligent conversation, but in between Christians and people of other faiths it will always amount to an argument.

Argument = bloodshed? Really? And it will ALWAYS amount to an argument? That's "arguable," but it's not what you said before. You said, and I quote, "bloodshed."

You know, there's a Jewish-Christianity interfaith event coming up soon in my area that I was thinking of attending. I didn't know I was walking into a guaranteed argument.

It's sad that you did not see that my reference to bloodshed was simply a metaphore for the millions upon millions of people killed in the name of "your" god.

Millions upon millions have been killed in the name of atheism, but I don't go around claiming that an athiest can't have an intelligent conversation about their beliefs without killing someone. I take personal offense to your so-called metaphore.

[edit on 7-3-2009 by ngchunter]

reply to post by ngchunter


Then I apologize, I never meant to offend, I should have used another metaphor then.

Simply put, people have never been able to have large scale constructive religious talks, when two or more religious groups are concerned.

And not to call you a liar, but where do you get that statement that millions of people have died for Atheism?

I'm not an atheist by the way, just so you know, my beliefs most likely aren't far off from yours to tell you the truth, I think the definitions are different.

~Keeper

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Simply put, people have never been able to have large scale constructive religious talks, when two or more religious groups are concerned.

Again, to be blunt, that's not true. There's an interfaith conference coming up in my area, I'm planning to go to it if time allows. I can promise you it will be constructive.

And not to call you a liar, but where do you get that statement that millions of people have died for Atheism?

www.time.com...

Originally posted by ngchunter
reply to post by moocowman

 

If you're going to use Fred Phelps, a man who doesn't even live by what he claims to believe, as being representative of christians in general or even a significant percentage of christians, you're no better than christians who suggest that atheists like Stalin, Mao Zedong, and Pol Pot are representative of the rest of you.

Mate, I don't give a monkeys what flavor xtian phelps is. Clearly you would object to Mr Phelps forcing your children to worship with him or your children turning out like his ?

Would you deny me the same the same objection as yours ?

And as far as "The rest of you goes " well there isn't , it's just me and my kids thank you very much, who happen not to believe what you do and would like it to stay that way.

Mao Zedong or pol pot have not taken jobs as teachers of my children and forced them to worship the jesusgod, if they did I'd want to kick their buttts as well.

[edit on 7-3-2009 by moocowman]

reply to post by Xtrozero


A star for you. I myself try to live by the Christian philosophy, but I in no way condone the teaching of religion, of any kind, in the public schools. I taught my children to live by the Christian philosophy, also, as is my right, and there were times when I felt it necessary to intervene when a teacher overstepped the bounds. Do I agree with the OP? In principle, yes, but it seems to me there is much bitterness and hatred in the OP that I would not want my children exposed to.

I know many people of many faiths and a few without, and I am able to have meaningful dialog with all of them. We can agree to disagree if necessary, but occasionally we learn from one another. I am not sure what I could learn from MooCowMan, except that maybe he should seek professional counseling. His blood pressure has got to be off the scale.

Originally posted by moocowman

Mate, I don't give a monkeys what flavor xtian phelps is.

That you think he's a christian at all, that you refuse to use the word, tells me volumes.

Clearly you would object to Mr Phelps forcing your children to worship with him or your children turning out like his ?

No one can force my daughter to worship with him. You see, someone like me would die for my beliefs before yielding, but we might pray FOR him WITH him. Hopefully my daughter would have the same strength of character.

Would you deny me the same the same objection as yours ?

To be frank, I don't believe your story is 100% true, I suspect you exaggerated the incident out of your own personal biases which show through in every single post.

[edit on 7-3-2009 by ngchunter]

reply to post by ngchunter


Well then, I must retract my previous statements.

I was wrong.

Although I don't think the deaths from Atheism would be near the totals of what the Church has killed over the last 3000 years or so, I do agree that Stalin and his ilk did do alot of harm.

As for the gathering, yes here in America or Canada, any peacefull nation, ofcourse you can have these get togethers, but it only takes one to ruin it for everybody.

I can understand your points of view on this issue, but to tell me that I've filled my daughter's head with nonsense and that I have somehow taught her that any religion is fine exept Christianity is simply false friend.

As I stated previously, my children make their own decisions, regardless of my input. Ofcourse they listen and take my opinions into account if they feel they are important enough, but there are many things that me and my children disagree with because they have had different experiences than I have had and our opinions differ.

I am not the kind of parent who keeps my children in a bubble all of their lives and only lets them experience life when they turn 18. I guide my children towards whatever truth they seek to find, but the answers are theirs to find, not for me to dictate.

~Keeper

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
that I have somehow taught her that any religion is fine exept Christianity is simply false friend.

Where did I say that? I'm sure those words didn't come from me.

As I stated previously, my children make their own decisions, regardless of my input.

Which is why everyone will ultimately be accountable for themselves, myself included.

There is a weak, but loud group of people in Boyle County, Kentucky, who are calling for an elective class in the teachings of the Christian Bible. While I see no problem, since it is not forced and is an elective, and as such I do not believe it to be a violation of the First Amendment, I do not understand why these people would not want other religions beliefs and beginnings taught on a volunteer basis. I have a sister, well, I have many sisters, thanks to a prolific dad, lol, but this particular sister was a teacher in a Montessori Middle School and she had a class on world religions. It was very informative and the students enjoyed it very much, learning about religions other than Christianity. And the students were encouraged by having the opportunity to select lesser known religions and researching them and presenting them to the class. Now, this was a well-rounded education class in my opinion. My sister has always been on the cutting edge when it comes to education, utilizing new thinking towards education. Her students have ALL, done well in post high school education.

Originally posted by kyred
I do not understand why these people would not want other religions beliefs and beginnings taught on a volunteer basis.

I have a good christian friend who was homeschooled (you know, one of those radicals who was taught entirely from a religious perspective), and he took a world religions course in college. Believe it or not, many christians, "hard right-wing christians," have no problem learning about other religions for educational purposes. It makes it much easier to witness to people from other cultures when you understand where they're coming from. As long as the students are not required to participate in any religion, christianity or otherwise, I'm ok with it.

[edit on 7-3-2009 by ngchunter]

reply to post by tothetenthpower

Furthermore I do not want my children to "not" hear about religion, they are free to study it as they see fit and to form their own ideas and opinions. If tomorrow my daughter decided she would like to follow the path of Jesus, by all means I would support her in her endeavour. It goes the same for anything else she'd like to study and make her own, so long as she is not hurting herself or anybody else in the process.

This is much how I feel and is a great response, what troubles me deeply is that so many xtians refuse to respect this and will still try and force their beliefs upon you and yours.

The impression I get is that Christianity seems to have an intense fear of this part of your statement -

they are free to study it as they see fit and to form their own ideas and opinions. If tomorrow my daughter decided she would like to follow the path of Jesus,

It seems that forming ones own opinions runs completely contrary to any religion or cult, It's so much harder for xtians (or any other cult for that matter) to groom children who form their own ideas.

reply to post by ngchunter


Hmm you're right, I was caught up in the debate I guess. It was from Ragman not yourself NGC.

I apologize once again.

And you are correct in that we are all responsible for our own actions which is why I allow my children to make as many mistakes as they want. I would rather them fall flat on their faces when they are young so I may pick them up and guide them, then for them to fall when I am no longer able to say " it's Ok you are still learning".

There comes a time in every child's life when they must start realizing things and making their own decisions, my belief is to start them young, they make their own decisions, they get to live with the consequences of their actions.

Raising my children in this manner has provided me with a very loving and a very nurturing family. My children are all A students and very active in our community.

The only downfall to my way of parenting is sometimes they assume they are a little more grow up and can make some hard decisions early. Which I guess can't be all bad if they are thinking ahead.

I just don't want them influenced by any set of morals or doctrines until they've made up their own moral codes and decided for themselves, along with their parent's help what is right and wrong in this world.

Religious faith takes a backseat as far as my parenting is concerned.

~Keeper

reply to post by moocowman


I think my friend, your fears are more towards "organized" religions than anything else.

I think the best course of action moving forward is not to teach your children that faith based religions are wrong, but that large scale organized religions if taken literally and as fact, can somtimes lead to very detrimental behaviours.

You seem intelligent enough to have a constructive conversation with your children no matter how old they are. Simpy speak to them in a way that they will understand, use cartoons if you need to, favorite movies, sports etc...

There is always a way to make children understand anything you are attempting to get across, from how to ride a bike, to algebra.

The trick is finding it.

~Keeper

Duplicate sorry mods...

2nd...

[edit on 3/7/2009 by tothetenthpower]

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by ngchunter

 

Hmm you're right, I was caught up in the debate I guess. It was from Ragman not yourself NGC.

I apologize once again.

Apology accepted.

I just don't want them influenced by any set of morals or doctrines until they've made up their own moral codes and decided for themselves, along with their parent's help what is right and wrong in this world.

I believe in establishing what is right and wrong from early in life, that is how I parent. For that I take my cues from my Christ; I don't want them to absorb any of my personal cynicisms. I say this only so that you may understand where I come from, but I respect your right to raise your children as you see fit (contrary to what moo probably thinks I think).

The thing that bothers me are suggestions that children should be somehow shielded from "religion" altogether; that would affect things like free religious expression or even parental rights, or aggressive declarations of war against me because of my beliefs. I know these are not the things you've said, so I apologize if I came off too harshly against you.

[edit on 7-3-2009 by ngchunter]

reply to post by ngchunter


Yes I can relate as my parents were very religious and raised me the same way you are raising your children now.

And maybe my cynism does come across when speaking about certain subjects, but they are all old enough now to know that those are simply the opinions of an old man that should be discarted lol

In any case I do aplaud you for your understanding.

It is nice to see somebody who acts Christ Like and not Christian.

There is a fundementall difference..

~Keeper