Christianity you have now overstepped the mark and I now declare war upon you

reply to post by undo

can't very well stay in the same class. logic, ya kn

Duh ? my children go to school to be educated not indoctrinated, so when the teachers decide to roll out the prayer mats and face mecca, and conduct their religious ceremony at school, any child that should question this "Educational" experience should be labeled "Dunce" and be sent away or put in the corner?

"Religions are a veritable curse on your planet - as I have said, and as I have proved. As for the new sects that are springing up and flourishing all over the world, they are based on control by brainwashing. It is terrifying to see young people, healthy in body and spirit, throw themselves at the feet of charlatans claiming to be Gurus and great masters, when the latter are masters of only two things - talking and collecting fabulous sums of money. This, of course, gives them power and enormous pride to see themselves dominating entire crowds of people who submit to them, body and soul. Not long ago, there was even one leader who asked his followers to commit suicide, and they obeyed. Since on Earth they love proof, there is an excellent one to give them: Universal Law forbids suicide - if this master had been genuine, he would have known this. In demanding this sacrifice from them, he presented the greatest proof of his ignorance. Sects and religions are a curse on Earth and when you see that the Pope sets aside millions of francs or dollars for his travel, when he could make do with much less, and use what money is available to help countries suffering from famine, you can not persuade me that it is the word of Christ which directs such actions.

To impose one’s will on another, in a way which deprives the individual of the privilege of exercising his own free will, is one of the greatest crimes that man can commit.

Christians, throughout the centuries, have killed in the name of God. The Inquisition was a good example, and the Spanish Catholics in Mexico behaved worse than the most savage tribes, all in the name of God and Christ.


There is a passage in your Bible that says: It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Paradise.

The Vatican is certainly the wealthiest church on your planet, and yet the priests have made vows of poverty. They have no fear of being damned, (yet they believe in damnation), because they say it is the Church which is rich, not them. This is really just a play on words since they make up the Church. Its like the son of a multi-billionaire claiming that he is not rich - only his father is.

The Church has distorted the passage in the Bible relating to wealth. They have used it to their advantage, for isn't it preferable that the rich grow poorer at the profit of the Church?" -Thoa Thiaoouba Prophecy

reply to post by undo

Heard of the Rosetta Stone?
How many translations there?
How many more from that point to English?
Ever heard of lost in translation?
True. English is the new kid on the block.
This language is evolving everyday.
Even now there's miscommunication amongst those speaking the same language.
What's the point? Sheople will be Sheople.
Bye....

Starred and Flagged.
While I agree that you should fight back against this monstrosity of a school, going vigilante against other education sites is not necessarily the answer. I do agree that children should be given the possibility that no higher power exists. Up until the age of 15, the only choice in beliefs I had was that there was a man in the sky that knows everything, and if I don't believe in him, I will go to hell and be tortured for all eternity. If I do believe in him, when I die I will go to heaven and pray for all eternity. Then, something happened. As public education progressed, we were educated in other religions, and I thought to myself that 'to accept God is to deny thousands of other deities.'

The problem I see with children these days is the same I encountered before, the only choice they have is Christianity. If your anti-crusade plans to let them know they have other options, you would be doing the world a huge favor.

reply to post by moocowman


as this one gentleman who hates women reminded us ladies often, don't be so melodramatic. i asked you specifically about the pretext of the situation and i also agreed that indoctrination is BAD. are you not reading my posts or do you hate christians so much that you only read every other word one says?

reply to post by LeoPardus70


the point is, that to say that jesus was based on a sun god because sun god and son of god sound similar in english is ludicrous for several reasons, starting with the fact they are not the same words nor sound the same in their original languages. next is the obvious -- if you were the son of (insert your father's name) would that also make you a sun god? next is the fact there were SEVERAL sons of God, most of which were likened to planetary deities from the so called pagan religions (these guys are in the bible! apollo is apollyon in revelation 9!)

[edit on 8-3-2009 by undo]

Originally posted by moocowman

and the assumption was this was in relation to Religious Education which is part of the curriculum.

That sounds like a reasonable assumption, and I see nothing wrong with children learning about different religions.

To cut a long story shorter my child not only had to learn about xtainity in RE class, which was taught by a Christian for half an hour a week for SEVEN MONTHS, where she was informed by the teacher that Jesus Christ is a very real person and god but also had to take part in the worship of this god twice a week.

How horrible. Having your child learn about humility, patience, self sacrifice, acts of kindness, gentleness, compassion, loving one another, and acts of charity that Jesus promoted must be a real insult. It would be so much better to just leave your child alone so that all they know is the way of selfishness, greed, false pride, crime, and all of those virtuous ways of world.

I have only recently learned that on the first day she started this “Secular” school that along with her books, diaries that she was given there was also a “BIBLE”!!!!!!!!

Oh my God, she got a free BIBLE! How horrible. You must be traumatised. So your child started asking questions about Christianity that you could not answer and you felt stupid and decided to get angry. Good thinking. Would you rather have your child ask you how to lie and cheat their way through a life full of hate, misery, and crime?

Needless to say I was very pissed off indeed with xtian propaganda being shoved down my child’s throat, and contacted the school.

Brilliant move. Make yourself look stupid again. Did they give you the old line, "when in Rome do as the Romans do."

So far as I’ve been able to ascertain, my child’s head of year, deputy head, headmaster and many are of xtian persuasion and so far these people are adamant that should I not want my child to be involved in their beliefs or worship, then they are willing to “SEGREGATE” her from the activities in which have this religious worship is somehow imposed upon them.

I've been trying to read between the lines of your broken English and the above paragraph makes no sense. Perhaps your problem is your own lack of education. I know it's frustrating for you, but get a life. The Bible and Christianity is a big part of this world and the human consciousness. Use this as an opportunity to do some research into the subject and stop fearing what you do not understand.

I have also learned today much to my horror that, without any parental consent whatsoever, this school has been using Vericool biometric fingerprinting of my child.

At least it's not the Veri-uncool biometric fingerprinting. If it was only your child being singled out it would be a reason for concern, but your concern(horror) is unjustified. Time to emotionally mature beyond adolescent level don't you think?

As of this week I am fighting back, I've had enough this is war I'm now going to use every last drop of energy I have in me, to publicly debunk Christianity in front of young people.

Well that's a relief. Some people that love to HATE strap on bombs and destroy themselves, people and property. But don't you think people are getting sick of the "WAR" mentality. "I don't like you or your religion so I'm going to blow you up, or shoot you, or make your life miserable." Get a LIFE!!

I would be grateful if any other ATSers who sympathize with my position could kindly give me help with "None hate inciting" propaganda material, such as posters etc so I can just print off as I'm no good at the stuff.
As I somehow I don't think AshleyD will contribute with her most excellent art work.

Seriously, spend your time seeking to add more humility, meekness, patience, and love in your life. You will live longer, be happier, and your family and friends will enjoy being around you. Jesus was a very important historical figure. He has had more influence on history than any other person who walked the earth, including Moses and Abraham. Jesus and the Bible is not going to hurt your child. It is your fear and your hatred that is going to do all the damage.

[edit on 8/3/09 by John Matrix]

Good on you op, these christians might think they're only doing whats 'right' by your child but indeed they are trying to install the same close minded MUST OBEY mind control into everyone they meet exactly because of this brain washing having been so effective on them.

Christians see themselves as being 'on the right path' but also 'the only path' and they are serving the 'one true god' - dangerous sentiments, we see just how far this mindset can lead you with the inquisition for example, devout bible reading ultra-catholics (including popes, etc) tortured people to death in the belief that if you don't renounce ALL other gods you would suffer in hell forever, thus just by pointing a finger and calling someone a Witch or a Crypto-Jew a 'good' christian could have someone 'sorted out' by the clergy. Indeed those were different days however the dogma is still the same, the reward is in the afterlife thus it's better to suffer in this life and get the ultimate reward (delayed-gratification) -the 'aim' of this life is to make sure everyone near you is a 'good' Christian, the bible and jesus mention this a lot.

So those people at your school don't want what you think is best for your child, what the child thinks is best for themselves or what society in general thinks is best - they want what a 1500yo book and the clergy think will get them into 'heaven' for doing. -a religious skeptic might say they they plan on paying the way to heaven in brainwashed children.

You are very right in saying the church attendance is down, the majority of people now don't consider themselves 'mainstream christian' (which means they sorta like the idea of a protector god and seeing their dead family after death but realize all formal religion is so full of contradiction and fallacy that it's not worth following) -I see it like this, those smart enough to see through religion used to pretend they cared so as not to become a social outcast or be tortured to death, however now they don't need to worry anymore and so are happy to be honest and call themselves atheist or agnostic. Now the default position for people (in the uk) is to not go to church, not prey or really think about 'worshiping' god and this means religion only has 'true believers' left -hehe these are those who are either too dimwitted or unwilling for whatever reason to think critically about Religion, most likely because they've been 'brainwashed' into thinking that if they do then some red horny demon will sweep them down into eternal torture.

True Believers are dangerous indeed, the bible is a very violent book and is quiet clear that ALL the worst things will happen to you if you don't do gods work - as we stated earlier 'gods work' might be stretched to just about any extreme...

The good thing (for us) though is the bible is FULL of contradictions, these crazy christians (split into 2 groups, the ineffective week willed and the crazy firebrand true believer) no longer have control of anything or a solid dogma to fall back on because if they try to tell someone about 'the one true god' almost everyone now knows that God may or may not have had a son who may or may not have appeared to paul on the road to demascus, he may or may not have sent the angel moroni to visit america, etc, etc -thus the most powerful tool of brainwashing they had is now broken.

As for your school, make sure your child knows the history and contradictions with in Christian practice (richest institution in history worshiping a guy who renounced money and power,lol) but also teach her the reasons religion helped savage man to sophisticate ourselves (well done whoever came up with eternal punishment, back when the only other answer to 'why shouldn't i kill you and take all your food?' was 'errr....' i bet it was really useful) and how now we don't need to restrict our thinking because we have scientific method, modern ethics and a twenty first century society.

She needs to learn that in life people will try to force her to think like them, be they Rev Feelgood, Charles Manon or the state learning how to take it all in, rationalize and create your own answers is vital. So make sure she knows that RE is always taught by biased people, so is science and history (lol my old history teacher taught us that jfk was killed by the american government) and all other subjects.

Also tell her that while preying to god is pointless (he can't support both football teams, the bible says he wont interfere,etc) the actual act of thinking rationally and verbalizing what you want is a good way of focusing your mind -guided prayer such as 'grace' before eating can be a good way of remembering daily that we only have things because of hard work (not often our own) and luck -and focusing our mind on maintaining the advantages we have -i.e. don't forget to keep working for a good future. So maybe while the 'devout' are asking god to fix them she could be thinking about what she wants in the world and how to best make that happen.

I would even go so far as to say directing them towards an omnipotent god is an interestingly useful device, the preying person is most likely to ask for more alturistic things (partly from the selfish and foolish precept that god will treat the alturistic better) and to be honest to themselves, tricking yourself is easy but the mind of a believer wouldn't dare to try tricking the almighty (hehe see the previous point, and consider that all religions practice some form of dogmatic wrangling to placate gods old demands (women can't talk in church, rape victims stoned, goats killed every time a woman menstruates, etc) -A prayer to god might be a humble request to maintain friendships, protect mummy or look after the sick old lady down the road -where as when we think about what we want out of life it normally starts with money then gets x-rated

So i would suggest she uses the prayer time to daydream about what she thinks life should be like and to think about the things she wants to happen, maybe even think about herself and her relationship to the world. - This of course is the good roots which spawned the thorny weed which is the catholic church (which later split a branch to become the withered Anglican Church), Catholic means 'universal' and as the famous John Dunn poem 'for whome the bell tolls' says so eloquently -we are all one under god, that is to say from an atheist perspective 'god' is simply an anthropomorphic version of 'society' combined with the 'chaos' which drives it -in considering god we are really just using obsolete language to think of 'society' and 'the greater good.'

So, having a 'devout' RE teacher is a good thing, it's as useful as having a real caveman to study in history -as long as you consider RE more of an anthropological study into christianity (which must be understood if one is to understand any of this islands ugly history). Preying is good as long as you don't believe all the jesus / moses hype. But here is where it gets fun for you, hehe 'Religious Freedom' has been fought for tooth and nail by these fundie lunatics - They harp on about 'teach the controversy in science' and they demand a chance to air their manual of hate speech (bible) on children, innocent and impressionable people everywhere -well, guess what you also have that right!

If they teach your child one religion, make sure they also 'teach the controversy' a full assembly on Bertrand Russel ("My own view on religion is that of Lucretius. I regard it as a disease born of fear and as a source of untold misery to the human race.") or Richard Dawkins once a term is only fair, plus try and get them to make sure RE doesn't only cover one religion or deity - The China Teapot, Spaghetti Monster, Ra, Mythra, Thor, Zeus, Quetzecoatal, Jedi and Manitou all deserve their place in the class room.

reply to post by moocowman


your kids has to learn about the Jesus (he is historical preson) same way as mine has to learn about the gay history.

we can talk to the teachers or take the kids out of the school.

but what makes me angry with your thread that with it you are the one who spreads the hate between the atheists and Christians. there is nothing good coming out of the action taken by you and from that thread.

only the fuel to some hate speech which is here on a nice fire already as I see.

Originally posted by Atlantican
The day is coming when we will all WISH, even us non Christians, that we were surrounded by Christians and that the church and state weren't so separated.

That maybe so, but that's not really what the thread is about. The OP was fairly specific yet throughout there's been posts trying to turn the thread into something else entirely.

I suppose we should have an almighty christian-islam war, since you can't stop beating your wives, oppressing women and working punishments out that don't constitute maiming, cruetly or death....

....ORRRR, how about this - we can ALL STOP WITH THE GENERALISATIONS abd understand that I am NOT responsible for my firefathers actions, and their before them!!!#

...AND... we could, get this, all get some perspective and shut the # up!

I hate what Christianity has done over the centruries, but I'm equally appalled at how Islam, and other religions have steamrollered common sense, equality and indoctrinated billions of people. I hate how (ALL) religious leaders are self-deluding hypocritical bastards who, if there IS a god (lets bring all people into this now) they will NOT see heaven in this life or the next because of what they have done to their fellow humans.

You need educating and we ALL feel sorry for you!

reply to post by undo


The class is the secondary issue, the worshiping takes place seperately where the kids are brought together supposedly to give information like hockey results or bacon is off the lunch menu. This information session is thickly mixed with the worship of a deity, and readings of various passages of selected religious doctrine.

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by undo

 

The class is the secondary issue, the worshiping takes place seperately where the kids are brought together supposedly to give information like hockey results or bacon is off the lunch menu. This information session is thickly mixed with the worship of a deity, and readings of various passages of selected religious doctrine.

This precisely. "Assemblies" in UK schooling are full to the brim of a mixture of information and disinformation, in the form of Christian doctrine. (This is in the case of state secular/CoE schools afaik)

By mixing doctrine with information, one can easily manipulate and confuse young minds.

[edit on 8-3-2009 by srsrecords]

reply to post by czacza1

your kids has to learn about the Jesus (he is historical preson) same way as mine has to learn about the gay history.

Dude trying to turn this thread around will not solve any problem.

My kids are fully aware that some people are gay, my children may turn out gay themselves, so what ?

Needless to say my children are young and their knowledge of history is limited, to what they have been taught so far.

Currently I find xtians trying to indoctrinate my kids into their belief system,
as far as I'm aware they are using bibles.
If my kids continue to read these bibles they will become aware that according to these so called historical documents gay people should be put to death.

So what is your problem with kids gaining knowledge of the history of homosexual persecution ?

xtians??? fu ( king "x-tians"

...we're not fu( king POP STARS!

Ignorance - you can't teach it. Clearly.

reply to post by srsrecords

This precisely. "Assemblies" in UK schooling are full to the brim of a mixture of information and disinformation, in the form of Christian doctrine. (This is in the case of state secular/CoE schools afaik) By mixing doctrine with information, one can easily manipulate and confuse young minds.

This summarizes my concerns thanks very much

reply to post by srsrecords


the problem is defining doctrine.

for example, let's say it turns out that we were created by "Aliens" (ETs). and they were created by Aliens and they were created by Aliens and they were created by Aliens etc infinity etc... you get the idea. this would totally wipe the theory of macro evolution. it wouldn't disprove micro evolution but it would wipe the current and accepted theory of macro evolution. this would reveal macro evolution as not only doctrine but failed doctrine. but to protect themselves, the priests of science have agreed to use different terminology when discussing the topic so that it can't be likened to a belief system.

there's only one problem with that, and i'll explain:

one day i decided to investigate what transpired during the course of carbon dating an anthropological dig site. if the site was previously dated, any materials that come out of it that don't appear to fit into the previous date, are thrown away or labelled as out of place artifacts. that's a boat load of assumption (better known as belief). they claim they do this because they can't afford to date every artifact in a site. so they go with whatever date was previously determined and any variation is assumed to be misplaced in the geological strata.

reply to post by NatureBoy

RE doesn't only cover one religion or deity - The China Teapot, Spaghetti Monster, Ra, Mythra, Thor, Zeus, Quetzecoatal, Jedi and Manitou all deserve their place in the class room.

Exactly my friend may the grace of the god of reason light your way

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by czacza1

 

your kids has to learn about the Jesus (he is historical preson) same way as mine has to learn about the gay history.

Dude trying to turn this thread around will not solve any problem.

My kids are fully aware that some people are gay, my children may turn out gay themselves, so what ?

Needless to say my children are young and their knowledge of history is limited, to what they have been taught so far.

Currently I find xtians trying to indoctrinate my kids into their belief system,
as far as I'm aware they are using bibles.
If my kids continue to read these bibles they will become aware that according to these so called historical documents gay people should be put to death.

So what is your problem with kids gaining knowledge of the history of homosexual persecution ?

it is the same problem for me as for you when your kids learn about the Jesus.

and trying to indoctrinate into belif system? you mean the rules such as 10 COMMANDMENTS or what? wow, horror.

and "these so called historical documents gay people should be put to death" is allegation without any backgraund behind. but you did not learn about Christianity so you can not even know if it is good or bad and what it is, right? you prefer to go on the war with something you do not understand.

I could tell you who did such but I do not want to offend you. take care

Originally posted by NatureBoy
Good on you op, these christians might think they're only doing whats 'right' by your child but indeed they are trying to install the same close minded MUST OBEY mind control into everyone they meet exactly because of this brain washing having been so effective on them.

How does a person become an expert on Christianity like yourself? Tell me so I can avoid such stupidity. Christianity is all about education, removing fear, instilling hope, LOVE, character development, etc. You have no clue what you are talking about.

Christians see themselves as being 'on the right path' but also 'the only path' and they are serving the 'one true god' - dangerous sentiments, we see just how far this mindset can lead you with the inquisition for example,

You HATE lovers always bring the deep dark past up as though somehow that makes you look like a well informed intelligent expert when in fact, you make yourself look ill informed. It is true that the RCC kept people in ignorance. It was easy to do back then because the Christians you refer to did not own or ever read a bible. Even the wealthy could not afford a bible until long after the printing press was invented in 1440 A.D.
What does that tell you about your blaming Christians for the Inquisitions way back when? Think before you start blaming people you know nothing about.

So make sure she knows that RE is always taught by biased people, so is science and history (lol my old history teacher taught us that jfk was killed by the american government) and all other subjects.

Look in the mirror at your own bias pal. Your post is full of bias assumptions, prejudice, intolerance, bigotry, and hatred. That's some character you have developed.

and consider that all religions practice some form of dogmatic wrangling to placate gods old demands (women can't talk in church, rape victims stoned, goats killed every time a woman menstruates, etc.

Really? What Christian church does that? I would like to know so I can avoid it. I read the reast of your advice to the OP and must say that if she tried teaching that load of dung to her child, her child would probably laugh her face off and think her own mother was an idiot.