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4 arrested in NV probe of 'anti-government' group

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posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 06:20 PM
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Scary days to be a registered Republican, me thinks.

I'm sure that these men did commit some crime but I think their associations are more the cause than their charges.

We will see, but I feel there will be a hideous amount of arrests to come.




posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 06:24 PM
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This story is disgraceful. So now if you are a part of a sovereignty movement then you are targetted for entrapment?

That is what this amounts to. The FBI entrapped these people. The laundering charges will be thrown out but the unregistered firearms charges will stick. They will be removed of their weapons and thrown in jail for a substantial amount of time...

Blatant cowardice shown here by a Government who realizes that their house of cards is about to come crashing down. Instead of being honorable people, they are framing their dissenters so they can continue to hold power.
This is, in my opinion, a definate sign that our Government is about to make a move towards unabashed totalitarianism.



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 06:30 PM
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There are people that make a living setting up people or groups.

The cops call them professional confidential informants.
Some cops trust them some don't.
But most cops use them.

Some do it for money, some do it to beat charges.

Never trust someone that joins your group and has all sorts of plans to do things. some not very legal.

I have had problems with bogus liens.
and yes they are paper terrorism.

They are very common in the construction business.

A home owner hires a contractor.
That contractor hire sub contractors

The prime contractor does not pay the sub contractors.
the sub contractors files a lien against the homeowner who has already payed the prime contractor. this ruins the credit score of the homeowner if he does not pay the subcontractor.

Then you also have the contractors scam
The prime contractor pays the sub contractor.
Then after the job is done the prime contractor disappears and the sub contractor still files a lien against the homeowner.
When the homeowner pays the sub contractor to protect there credit or because of a court judgment the prime contractor and the sub contractor split the extra money the have extorted from the homeowner.

With a proper contract the homeowner can be protected from both of the types of liens by contractors.
The homeowner should always use there own contract forms.



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 06:31 PM
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That's an offshoot of that bunch of nuts I ran into in Montana. They would not leave me alone and showed me tapes and legal arguments and bragged about many crimes to my face. They also had ties, up there at least, in they shared members with the Aryan Nation bunch from the Idaho Panhandle.

This site has some of their legal insanity over the years. They tried to convince me of all of this stuff. The ones I ran into were even bragging about their illegal weapons to me and about poaching game.

I made the mistake of hiring one of them who mistook my kindness for approval. I could not get rid of him and he brought a constant string of tapes and printed nonsense that matches what is on that site above. These people were nuts and well armed. I'm a sucker who hires people I should not sometimes, but this bunch really made me rethink that idea. I think your theorizing about the wrong group. These are not people you want living next door.

They don't do the things they do because they are Patriots. They are common trash, who don't give a damn about the law or me or you. One of them I met ended up in a gun battle with authorities and was printing fake money and fake deeds to property that belonged to other people. That was back in about 1995 I think.

Read through the link above and you will get an education about their insanity and the nonsense they believe. They get around Amendments to the Constitution by picking the ones they don't like and claiming they are invalid. Their basic MO is if they want to poach an Elk, they figure out a reason the law does not apply to them in their 70 IQ minds and go ahead and poach. They prey on the less than intelligent of this world and their fears and many are also Supremacists. You know, their Mother is their Fathers Sister



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 06:48 PM
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s and f my friend. good find.
I wait when they come for Alex. and that day I pack my stuff and move to deep forest for good.



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 08:37 PM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555

They don't do the things they do because they are Patriots. They are common trash, who don't give a damn about the law or me or you.


Sounds like our government.


One of them I met ended up in a gun battle with authorities and was printing fake money and fake deeds to property that belonged to other people. That was back in about 1995 I think.


Our government does the same thing.Their money substitute is fake. It’s paper in case you were unaware. They CLAIM land and RESOURCES that belong to everyone. They go to war and kill millions in the name of oil. They take YOUR property if you’re behind on taxes. Why if I buy land and a home am I entitled to pay them taxes for what I own? In essence I don't own it but am renting it. No different than a store owner paying the mafia protection money. This is a criminal act. Why are they the authorities? Because they say so and give themselves the self empowering control. It’s alright for them to go kick your door in because one of their people gives them a paper (warrant) to say it's ok. What’s the difference between the 2? Nothing except the government never pay for their crimes.

Open your eyes. Do you see the current state of affairs going on in this world. Are you trying to blame one of these groups? Just so you know it was our self proclaimed, civilized, morally and ethically correct government with their self serving, manipulated manmade laws who NEVER pay for the crimes they commit, government who was responsible. Yet somehow you’re talking about some group killing an elk. Millions of people in America being enslaved by terrorist tactics (achieving ones goal by creating fear) take precedent over an elk and the greed of the corrupt scum who make these decisions which are detrimental to our very lives. You’re a slave and don’t even realize it. Laws are only put in place to control people and instill fear in them. Enslave them and create revenue for the state and country while oppressing us. I personally will never follow a man made law again especially when they don’t apply to the laws creators. I don’t need laws, I know right from wrong.

I know some of these groups you speak of are off their crackers but I respect the fact that they are who they are and don't try to sugar coat it. Our government bases everything on morals, ethics and civility, yet are the most deviously deceptive murderous criminals walking the face of earth, yet you believe they are somehow moral and correct in they way they run this world. This is why we will stay enslaved. Too many people with your brainwashed, scared sheep train of thought.

The government does what you’re against on a much broader scale. This country needs a new REVOLUTION. Look where our current system has gotten us. Enslavement of the people who built and keep this country running. Yet you wonder why it’s, middle class citizens are furious. We maintain and pay for everything and can't afford to live because they take our money and homes. Everything is overpriced and we can’t afford to live on a salary that competes with our economy.You keep worrying about them and your ideals yet I’m sure you yourself are guilty of something that goes against the manmade laws of this country. EVERYONE is.If you claim you’re not then you’re a blatant liar.Wake up to the reality of the world. It’s real


[edit on 7/3/2009 by Revealation]



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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reply to post by Revealation
 


Star for you, sir.

I have had some dealings with people from the Sovereignty movement and they weren't like Blaine described them at all. Not saying that Blaine's experience was bogus; it's just that my experience was quite different. They were mainly constitutional law researchers trying to find out how we got so far off the path of what the founding fathers intended (and wrote). Even in Arkansas (the HQ for the KKK) the people I knew were not white supremacists and had blacks in the meetings and working alongside everyone else.

Our government has been breaking "the law" for so long now that most people think that Big Brother must be within the law for doing what they do.

I firmly believe that at some point we're all going to have to get comfortable with the idea of being "lawbreakers". I don't mean that we need to start shooting and rioting and being a general PITA to society; but when it becomes illegal to have more than 3 days worth of food in your pantry we might want to ignore that one. When it becomes illegal to be in possession of Vitamin C (or any vitamin, herb or supplement), will you comply? When it's considered illegal to "aid and abet" any Christians, will you rat out your mom? When it becomes illegal to own guns, will you meekly turn yours in?

The dividing line on which laws we chose to ignore/break will be different for everyone but I believe we're all going to wind up being "lawbreakers". The guys in the OP story just drew their line a little further out than I'll draw mine.



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by Revealation
 


"No different than a store owner paying the mafia protection money. "




This is very true.
I actually had a number of similar thoughts when I read Blaine's post, but I didn't voice my feelings because I felt I may have infringed upon good taste.

Poaching Elk are these peoples' crime?
Who in the hell is telling them that they can't kill that elk? Are they doing it to get food?

Now, I don't poach, but I would never label someone a terrorist because they kill game out of season.

Absurd.

The rest is a fancy emotive plea.

[edit on 7-3-2009 by Jay-in-AR]



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 11:29 PM
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The task force investigated the case because of threats allegedly made toward law enforcement and Internal Revenue Service agents. Investigators raided properties in Las Vegas, Idaho and Arizona.


That is from the article here: www.lvrj.com...

Does anyone have any information about the Idaho and Arizona raids?



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 11:33 PM
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reply to post by Revealation
 


Are you honestly defending these nut jobs? Would you leave your children in a room alone with them? They mixed really well with the Supremacists groups. In fact I got the impression nearly everyone of them I met was part of the Aryan Nation.

How does the existence of these lowlifes have even a tiny bit to do with what is going on with our Government? Are you trying to say that these people have anything worth even listening too? How does printing fake money and deeds to other peoples land help America?

What we need is good leaders, not a new system. Groups of Radical nut cases don't help a damn thing in this world any more than bad Politicians do.

We outnumber our leaders by such a huge margin that if we can't peacefully fix things, we deserve what is done to us. Machine guns and nuts screaming over bullhorns and tromping all over other innocent peoples rights are also not what we need.

Look to people who made a real difference like M L King. Not to groups of nuts that never make any difference. They are just anti-social whacks who get their jollies causing trouble and every now and then a Charismatic Conman uses them for some nefarious reason.

Where the mention of poaching came from is the one I mistakenly hired and his brother were poaching for antlers to sell on the black market so they did not have to get a job. These pieces of crap were leaving the dead animals that had too small of racks lay in the field. They were not feeding anyone. They were so stupid they were bragging about it to anyone who would listen.

Maritime Law my butt. I know a bunch of lowlifes when I meet them. These con men also earned their money by selling tapes about Maritime Law and fringe on flags that somehow meant we don't have to pay taxes or be subject to any law and they meant all laws including Murder. I'd imagine the ones I met back then are all in Prison.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 12:57 AM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by Revealation
 


Are you honestly defending these nut jobs?

Maritime Law my butt. I know a bunch of lowlifes when I meet them. These con men also earned their money by selling tapes about Maritime Law and fringe on flags that somehow meant we don't have to pay taxes or be subject to any law and they meant all laws including Murder. I'd imagine the ones I met back then are all in Prison.


Shooting an Elk is not murder (can we agree on that?)

defending nut jobs?

I wasn't there so I can't say you are wrong for calling them "nut jobs," perhaps you are correct. I only wish to point out that what they teach is one thing, and what they do is another. Most people fail to practice what they preach--hypocrisy is a common human failing. Acting in a manner contradictory to one's one beliefs and feelings, or conversely, expressing false beliefs and opinions is a universal flaw of all men and not limited to those in government (or those who oppose government).

One ought not draw the conclusion that everyone who questions the government is in the same "nut job" category. That is what the government "public relations" dept. wants to accomplish from this action. Most people who read this article will start to think that anyone who speak out in favor of State Sovereignty is a "nut job" who wants to kill people. Clearly, this is not the case but by this action the unconscious programed masses that the government wants to control have just been told what to look out for, what to fear, what to do, and what NOT TO DO.

The Constitution of the United States of America mentions three areas of jurisdiction in which the courts may operate: Common Law, Equity Law, Admiralty/Maritime Law. In Equity Jurisdiction, you cannot be tried criminally, but you can be compelled to perform to the letter of a contract. Anytime someone is charged under the Common Law, there must be a damaged party... this leaves Admiralty/Maritime Jurisdiction.

Whenever there is a penalty for failure to perform (such as willful failure to file a tax return), that is Admiralty/ Maritime Law and there must be a valid international contract in force. However, the courts don't want to admit that they are operating under Admiralty/Maritime Jurisdiction, so they took the international law or Law Merchant and adopted it into our codes. That is what the supreme Court decided in the Erie Railroad case--that the decisions will be based on commercial law or "business law" and that it will have criminal penalties associated with it. Since they were instructed not to call it Admiralty Jurisdiction, they call it Statutory Jurisdiction.

I concede that the entire question of a gold fringe around an American flag is a moot point. Why? Because with (or without) the flag--most "criminal" cases are in effect being tried under admiralty jurisdiction. This is just the way in which the court has determined it shall function. Under this condition anything can be called "frivolous" and the Judge can make up his own law. So we have a situation where it is the court system itself that is making "frivolous" and unconstitutional arguments.

In my view, the Judges are in contempt of their own court when they impose criminal penelties under Statutory Jurisdiction (which is really Admiralty/Maritime Jurisdiction). With the loss of common law we have also loss of liberty. You can view this "gold-fringe" argument anyway you want to, but the fact remains: we have long sense departed from
Common Law (and the Constitution).

We are now subject to the IRS under Statutory Jurisdiction, and under that system you have no more rights than a man at sea 200 years ago. Liberty has been shipwrecked and like it our not, we have all become slaves to the state.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 01:10 AM
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These were the people who are at the forefront of teaching commercial law and contracts and applying it in the courts against corrupt government officials and to teach people how to be free of "commercial crimes" and commercial / Admiralty/Maritime Jurisdiction by teaching people how to accept the contracts and return the item to the government for the tax return.

[edit on 8-3-2009 by infoliberator]

The "Tax Return" is the item that is "presented" to you for "acceptance" or "dishonor". An Accepted item is then discharged through HJR-192 and the Gold Clause that says all contracts put forth from this day on June 5, 1933, would be void if calling for payment in anything other than substance, i.e., gold or silver coin.

The bankers created money out of liens, lent them to the US Treasury through the Federal Reserve system, and all these liens were based on OUR Birth Certificates that "certified" a value had been assessed and designated for this item in commerce. Then the Birth Certificate was Transferred to the Commerce Department. The point being, the money created, was borrowed from us to begin with, and this gives us a "Tax Exemption" in the US Corporation. It is this Examption that is being used to "pay down" or "set off" the liability of the charges against an individual in the commercial court system. So, when charges are "accepted for value", they are then "returned for settlerment" and that is the "Tax Return" and now the debt has been "PAID", so the charges MUST be discharged.

Now, here is where the Sovereign Redemptionists were really causing problems for the currupt government officials. If an official like a Judge or Prosecutor didd not want to accept these "acceptances" they are still in possession of the "Tax Return" that belongs to the US Treasury and is being kept secretly by the court. There is no money, but there is credit DUE, from the court to the US Treasury and if the account is not adjusted then there is hell to pay in the financial system, because contracts become due and these charges in the courts are hedged in wall street as mutual funds in the local municipality, so they become investment portfolios for the courts, then they have to admit the income and they are stealing from the US Treasury if they don't drop the charges, release the prisoner, and pay the Taxes to the Feds.

Once the "acceptance" is made of the charges, the charges are "paid" and the courts don't want to admit the income and the payments. The payments come from the fact that they took away the gold and silver and ability to pay and put in the INSURANCE policy for the people HJR-192 of June 5, 1933, which stated that debts created by debt can be paid by credit created by credit, basically. If you create the debt with a contract, then the acceptance of that contract constitutes full payment as much as physically possible. To give Federal Reserve Notes does not pay it, it only transfers liability to the new owner of the Notes. So, the written acceptance PAYS THE DEBT FULLY. That is what Roger Elvick concluded and PROVED over and over in court and through all kinds of experiments. But they went after him and set him up, but he is out and again proving his stuff by DOING IT and now he has a greater understanding of everything and it's working even better than before. That is what has the corrupt officials freaking out.

[edit on 8-3-2009 by infoliberator]

The most important thing to remember is that we all have a "Tax Exemption" and the money they are collecting from us, has already been borrowed from us to begin with and they want us to pay it back to them. We are the Principal and the interest always accrues to the Principal. The agents, working for the agency the people created, want the people to pay back money that was borrowed from them to begin with. That is the corruption of the bankers and the judges that work for them.

[edit on 8-3-2009 by infoliberator]



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 01:26 AM
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This is what is called

CHAOS

Because, there are allot of Americans who...are part of anti govt groups that suck and probably should be taken down...
and there are

Genuinely concerned citizens and people who just want to live who don't

and there are also Government employees who are out to get American citizens

and

Government employees who actually care about the country and aren't on a power trip

so no one will have any idea who is the good guys or bad guys if this happens

I am totally for an expansion of states powers and reduction of federal powers

and on the State side sadly, are allot of people who... are no damn good too

this will be completely insane...all of it CHAOS



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 01:43 AM
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I want to add though, that if Sam Davis did launder this money as described, he messed up badly, and took a wrong turn. Especially if he knew it was from Fraud. I cannot believe Sam would do this, but then again, I don't know him personally.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 01:55 AM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective

I agree with wasaka that we're all a slave, whether we like to admit it or not. It's really a matter of how much burden you're willing to bare before you crack and become the same "nut job" they like to label anyone and everyone in disagreement with them, or not meeting their social standards and "tastes".

reply to post by whitewave



I firmly believe that at some point we're all going to have to get comfortable with the idea of being "lawbreakers". I don't mean that we need to start shooting and rioting and being a general PITA to society...

I was thinking that as well, as I read through this thread, but we need to be careful which laws we become in disagreement with. Most importantly, there's a better way to change a law than to blatantly break it.

It's easy to slip into the mentality of victimism when it comes to governing forces, that fear alone can cause bad things to happen to you, but so does being overly sure your views are the best views, better than the group of people who decided on a law in the first place. It's good to check with several different perspectives before deciding which laws are "bad" laws.


Originally posted by loam
This is what I found on the term "paper terrorism:"




The Origins of Bogus Liens

Thus where there are no laws to the contrary, bogus liens may be easily and inexpensively placed, but can only be removed with difficulty and expense. It is this fundamental disparity which makes the use of bogus liens such an efficient and cost-effective tactic for anti-government extremists.

More...

Link.



Now I understand fully.

Not a surprise they were arrested for this.

It does seem like certain laws are in place to 1)imprison targeted people based on a technicality and 2)use that same technicality to harass targeted people.

Why else would it be so easy to make "bogus leins"? I'd like to hear the explanation for that.


I guess the moral of the story is, when you can feel the heat of the kitchen, make sure your clothes aren't flammable(and certainly not saturated in kerosine, as was the case with the guys in the OP).



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 03:32 AM
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Most people are brainwashed from shows like "Law and Order" to hate with extreme prejudice anyone that comes from the lower classes and that commits crimes the politicians or Federal Reserve commit everyday. So when you hear the word "Soverignty" you will immediately associate the word with "anti-semitism", racism, etc. And that when you hear about Bernie Madoff you will think of starving Jewish people in a slave labor camp.

So on the one hand they can immediatly invoke the crime of Jew Hating when wealthy Jewish people commit a crime and invoke it when a person that believes in the Constitution or believes in total freedom of rights as someone that hates these jewish people or just hates the government.

In europe it's already an extra curricular activity to attack people on the basis of their use of words. Language overcomes sanity and dominates people rather than lifting them up. Actually being educated and using words leads towards psychic dominance by those that use "paper terrorism" to produce and provoke fear into the populace of violating "Spooks" on paper, imaginary "Natural Laws" that only exist in the minds of someone else and that most people have never heard of before.

This explains why the government itself can engage in not paying taxes or ignorin the 87,000 pages of tax code while using "paper terrorism" to invoke fear amongst the rest of us for not knowing every single bit of code. These people sound like they were and are resisting the word slavery game and using their minds to exist in a free state of affairs exclusive of government reality. In other words they were actively, nonviolently living in protest of the federal government, so to most Americans they look like wild animals, since most people are trapped in linguisitc enslaved constructions of reality and forced to comply with them or face violence from the predator class that includes most ivy league educated and business class politicians and lawyers that use "paper terrorism" to provoke intelligent people into non'violent resistence of their slavery game.

Owning a machine gun doesn't mean anything semantically. It doesn't mean I intend to kill someone anymore than owning a car or gallons of gas or liquid dranyo means it either. Same with chemicals to make drugs doesn't mean I intend to make drugs with them either, they inply intention and the people that get seated on Juries watch a bunch of TV drama propaganda and come to think that these things being said to be illegal by the government MEANS they are illegal, just by semantics and fiat, nevermind if like the Native Americnas the people they are charging with these crimes don't even believe in a thing that exists in reality called the US. So in the tradition of Native Americans they are brought through KANGAROO courts that don't recognize the semantic nature of what has happened and expect all of us to go along with the "LAW" since we don't know all of the code we are expected to convict on the basis that judge and government know best, that would not be justice, it would best be called law. So now that the criminal uppper class has acted in this way for years they want to use poor people as examples for the common person so they don't think that they can get away with it too.

A book to check out would be word controlled humans

[edit on 8-3-2009 by bubbabuddha]



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 04:24 AM
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I just sent the ADL a email with regards to their offensive hate speech on their page and stated that somebody should sue them for "HATE SPEECH" since they use the term IDIOT to describe people that are misinformed by some of these semantic arguments.

id·i·ot (ĭd'ē-ət) Pronunciation Key
n.
A foolish or stupid person.
A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.

[Middle English, ignorant person, from Old French idiote, from Latin idiōta, from Greek idiōtēs, private person, layman, from idios, own, private; see s(w)e- in Indo-European roots.]

Sounds a bit harsh and ignorant on their part wouldn't everyone agree with me here, by their definition these men have an IQ of 25 or still can't wipe their own asses! Doesn't that sound like discrimination and also doesn't that produce HATE in the person that agrees with such nonsense about other people. Obviously all one would have to do would be to test the IQ of these people and file lawsuits to get the words scratched from their site.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 04:41 AM
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this thread revealed vastly diverging viewpoints regarding 'such movements'.

it's imho obvious that you're talking about very different things, isn't it? i'm certain there are lots of non-violent activists who are trying to beat big brother at his own game and some might even be moderately successful at it, the question is does it matter much and how*. others will try to ride the wave, indicating that group dynamics are at work, which is a bad omen, because history shows that this path is one of opression. the real issue is how much is actually making it into the media channels? is this a PR stunt and the actual case is merely a source of inspiration? was the case set up from the start to make an example of a few people or was it merely one out of thousands, which was then picked more or less randomly for reuse in PR. i'm of course leaning towards the last option.



* if you can carve out a niche for you that's fine as long as you know that you're merely trying to improve your lot, while the world around you deteriorates into that devilish NWO, but i doubt people consider themselves just cunning weasles dodging the shots, many people (on this forum, for example) present an image of activists, ie. who want to change the world, not just theirs.


if there's one lowest common denominator in politics it's war, as in violence. the task force that burnt the farm in Waco may or may not have commited crimes in the legal sense, but the facts were established these people killed off like pests. had the thugs been tried and found guilty, it still would not have made much of a difference, because the organisations behind it all can't be controlled by law, even if you shut one down, they'd rename it and go on with a slight delay.

when an organisation commits crimes, individuals get punished - hardly a balanced deal, is it?

the battle is therefore lopsided and the belief that you can actively or even openly dissent without (the risk) of being treated as a criminal is mistaken and a clear sign that you still shy away from the naked cold facts. law is a tool in the enemy's hands. would you worship the henchman's axe?



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 06:40 AM
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Sounds like just another FBI entrapment gig to me. I’m much more inclined to believe the accused in such a case, but then having had a police officer perjure himself against me in court just days ago, I might be biased. If a gov stooge told me the sun would rise in the east tomorrow, I’d be looking to check.

They do seem to be ramping things up against the ‘dissidents’ don’t they? Preparing the public for round ups after the next false flag no doubt. The next one will be a very big indeed me thinks.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by Revealation
 

Are you honestly defending these nut jobs?


I defend only my family and the helpless. Why are they nutjobsbecause they have a certain belief?


Would you leave your children in a room alone with them?


I wouldn't and don't leave my kids with anyone except immediate family and before you go and say I leave them at school. I send them to a private school at which my mother works, so They are always protected by my own.



How does the existence of these lowlifes have even a tiny bit to do with what is going on with our Government? Are you trying to say that these people have anything worth even listening too? How does printing fake money and deeds to other peoples land help America?


Same thing our government doesYou seem to accept the fact that our government is printing fake money and deeds.Our gov't prints paper and basically gives it whatever value they wish. This may help you to have some useless piece of paper, but to me it enslaves me. I work and they take my money. If my money was going to what they said it was supposed to fine but it goes into their little self serving agendas. I honestly don't know what country you live in but do you honestly believe our leaders are doing any good for the people who keep this country rolloing? Their crminals but you fail to see this. they perpetrate the biggest crimes in history and nobody is held accountable and your fine with this?


What we need is good leaders, not a new system. Groups of Radical nut cases don't help a damn thing in this world any more than bad Politicians do.


I agree but at least they are making a stand against the corrupt sytem that's been screwing them.They aren't claiming to be anything they haven't stated. Everyone needs to make a stand otherwise we will NEVER have new leaders.

You seem to think leaders will change anything other than their underwear and laws. As long as money is involved there will be no change or good leaders. You want a good leader. I would like to see one who cares enough to work for charity and i'll tell you he's a good man.


We outnumber our leaders by such a huge margin that if we can't peacefully fix things, we deserve what is done to us. Machine guns and nuts screaming over bullhorns and tromping all over other innocent peoples rights are also not what we need.


Yet you accept it when it's our soldiers fighting for our freedom. This is how the world was built. People don't respect people. Fear is the only thing which keeps people in check. It's sad but a fact. Look at our repectable citizens, SCARED of what will happen if they don't obey. COntrolled by fear.


I'm just basically saying that anyone who screw the government got my respect for their actions. I don't personally know them but respect the fact they are who they say they are and are SOVEREIGN.

I NEVER in my life voted to give any person authority over me and NEVER will. Don't give me the BS my vote changes anything either. The governemt are murderous crimin als plain and simple. I have eyes and you can't decieve me or sugar coat it . I've lived for too many years of experience, knowledge and wisdom to know the differenc.

[edit on 8/3/2009 by Revealation]

[edit on 8/3/2009 by Revealation]



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