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Something growing on Mars

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posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by Phage
 


Here you have a list with images that show those small "cones" or other "features" on the dark patches. All were found in the borders of the dark patches areas.

Image 1
Image 2
Image 3
Image 4
Image 5
Image 6
Image 7
Image 8
Image 9
Image 10
Image 11
Image 12
Image 13

All the images are at 50% zoom, meaning that each pixel represents 50 centimetres, and as all images have the same size they all show a 345 x 270 metres area.




posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by Phage
 

Here you have a list with images that show those small "cones" or other "features" on the dark patches. All were found in the borders of the dark patches areas.

All the images are at 50% zoom, meaning that each pixel represents 50 centimetres, and as all images have the same size they all show a 345 x 270 metres area.


Having looked at the close-up images you linked, is it possible they are the remains of a rubble pile asteroid impact? The top-left (NW) area of most of the dark patches have a darker object that could be a volcanic cone or maybe impact debris.

If they are volcanic in origin, would the effluvia all run in the same direction when a 'downhill' is not supported by the original images? The darker areas that surround the cones/objects could be interpreted as indicating the direction from where the impact came?

I'm happy to demonstrate my ignorance here, could it be evidence of an impactor? I don't know so I ask



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 02:23 PM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 


I think it's entirely possible. I think the number, proximity, and small size of the cones that ArMap pointed out make it unlikely that they are all, if any, cinder cones.

The abstract (so annoying that they want money to see the whole paper) that you quoted earlier mentions pedestal and ejecta flow craters in Malea Patera. Both are the result of impacts. It does look like a debris field to me but it may be hard to explain how such a flow could be partially inside the crater, as this appears to be.

[edit on 3/7/2009 by Phage]



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 02:30 PM
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Yep meteors, crashed into sand dunes.
That is what it looks like.
The black is from the fire and dust.



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by Nicolas Flamel
If you compare a close up of the HIRISE image with a colony of mold growing on a petri dish (images below) you will see that the center of the colonies are darker and more dense than the surrounding area. If it looks like a duck...


... then Mars must be a petri dish, right?



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by Phage

Originally posted by zorgon

Arthur C. Clarke Stands By His Belief in Life on Mars
www.space.com...

[edit on 6-3-2009 by zorgon]

Yes, that is what Clarke said in 2001 (not the movie, the year), after seeing images from the Global Surveyor.

As he also suggested, closer-in imaging did decide the matter:
Here is a progressive zoom of the "trees" (from PSP_003443_0980, in 2007). Clarke was wrong, they are geological features. Have at it with your crayons.


Those images can be interpreted in any way you wish, according to your beliefs. To me they look very much like spinach.



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by pavil
Please provide proof of that statement, that's the first time I have heard a temp like that.



The current martian atmosphere is 99% thinner than the Earth's. The surface temperature averages -64 F (-53 C), but varies between 200 below zero during polar nights to 80 F (27 C) at midday peaks near the equator. The global picture of Mars is sometimes compared terrestrially to Antarctic dry regions, only colder.

www.spacedaily.com...


I had a few more links saying much the same but i can't seem to find them at the moment. Either way the surface water ( standing pools, etc) seen in at least a few photo's tells me that 27 degrees are not as much of a anomaly as it at first might seem. ...

As for the question of whether that splotches might represent life on Mars here are some interesting excerps for you all :



A new test for the presence of vegetation on Mars depends on the fact that all organic molecules have absorption bands in the vicinity of 3.4 . These bands have been studied in the reflection spectrum of terrestrial plants, and it is found that for most plants a doublet band appears which has a separation of about 0.1 and is centered about 3.46 M Spectra of Mars taken during the 1956 opposition indicate the probable presence of this band.TLis evidence and the well-known seasonal changes of the dark areas make it extremely probable that vegetation in some form is present.

www.journals.uchicago.edu...



"If there is vegetation on Mars, it should be concentrated in the darkarea elements, measuring 10 to 100 kilometers. Vegetation is the best hypothesis to account for seasonal changes in the maria and for the persistence of these formations despite dust storms of global extent. Survival of vegetation in the extreme dryness of the Martian climate could depend on the low night-time temperature and deposition of hoarfrost, which could melt into droplets after sunrise, before evaporating. If not vegetation, it must be something thing specifically Martian; no other hypothesis hitherto proposed is able to account for the facts."

www.sciencemag.org...



Conclusion and biological interpretation of DDSs: We
found that the circular shape of DDSs is independent from
local small-scale topographic variation. Fig. 4 shows surface
pattern of grooves on the top of the ice coverage, which remained
untouched while gray and dark spotting had been
advancing beneath them. This observation and existence of
DDS-holes may be interpreted so that the development of the
DDSs begins from the bottom of the frosted ice-snow layer.
This may imply that the melting/evaporation process “eats
up” the frosted layer from the bottom where the DDS centers
develop, which become the dark holes of the DDSs.

The bulk radial symmetry, the flowing (seepage) patterns
and the defrosting beginning from bottom of DDSs suggested
us a biological interpretation of the all DDS phenomena.
Therefore we proposed that for interpreting these complex
seasonal phenomena the sublimation processes should
be combined with some kind of biological activity [1, 2].
Under Martian circumstances the only possible solvent is
liquid water with some salt component.

We interpreted the sequence of DDS formation and
changes as a biomarker [8]. If Martian Surface Organisms
(MSOs) exist, they could dwell below the surface ice, which
is heated up by their absorption of sunlight. Later they grow
and reproduce through photosynthesis and they can generate
their own living conditions. Not only liquid water, but even
water vapor can sustain this form of life. Water vapor can
migrate in the soil below the CO2 frost cover supporting the
life conditions for endolithic type communities and this activity
enhances the defrosting/melting process on the top of
the dark dune surface

www.lpi.usra.edu...



And let it not be said that we are the only people talking about life on mars!


Not so long ago it was unthinkable for respectable scientists to talk about life on Mars. Such talk was best left to X-Files fans. But no longer.

Evidence is building to suggest biological processes might be operating on the red planet, and life on Mars, many scientists believe, is now more a likelihood than merely a possibility.

"The life on Mars issue has recently undergone a paradigm shift," said Ian Wright, an astrobiologist at the Planetary and Space Sciences Research Institute at the Open University in Britain, "to the extent now that one can talk about the possibility of present life on Mars without risking scientific suicide."

"I believe there is extremely high probability that microbial subsurface life exists on Mars," he said, while acknowledging that although he believes in Martian life, he can't yet prove it.

wired.com...



"This is a historic moment for Mars exploration when a previously neglected region reveals its secrets," Jan-Peter Muller of the University College London said in a statement today. "Speculations that this area might have water close to the surface have been shown to be correct."

The findings could be important for biology, Muller and his colleagues say.

"Higher levels of methane over the same area mean that primitive micro-organisms might survive on Mars today," the statement reads.

www.space.com...




PARIS — Three-quarters of the 250 Mars science experts meeting to analyze the results from U.S. and European Mars probes believe life could have existed on Mars in the past, and 25 percent think life could be there even now, according to a poll released Feb. 25.

The poll was announced during a press briefing following the First Mars Express Conference, held Feb. 21-25 at the European Space Agency’s Estec technology center in Noordwijk, Netherlands.

The results perhaps reflect the sober caution of scientists who refuse to jump to conclusions before conclusive evidence is in about the No. 1 issue on the minds of everyone attending the conference, held to review a year’s operations of Europe’s Mars Express orbiter.

www.space.com...


More to come....

Stellar




[edit on 7-3-2009 by StellarX]



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 05:46 PM
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Hey guys and gals. I wanted to post this as I do not know where else to post it. My son on Wednesday the 3rd was allowed access to my computer whilst he was home from school because of being sick. He has been showing intrest in the paranormal and aviation and allowed him to use this site to look while I was at work. He apparently made some very rude posts and U2U's to members while I was gone I wanted to correct and apologize for that. I was made aware by a very tersely worded U2U from a female member of ATS and immediatley looked through posting history and ETC. I know he made a post early on in this thread under my name. It is what it is however I wanted to apologize and ask that anyone whom recieved any negative or offensive posts from my account on or about the 3rd please let me know. He will not be allowed to do this again and the situation ( I hope) has been remedied. Thank you guys and girls for your understanding and forgiveness in advance.



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by StellarX
 


I'm glad you point out the myth that science (and the dreaded NASA) insist that there is no life on Mars when, in fact, the search for life and/or conditions conducive to life is one of the primary missions of all of the missions to Mars. This has not been a secret. These are not new disclosures.

But quoting articles from 1957 and 1966 based on ground based telescopic observations? Why not cite Percival Lowell's "findings" as well?



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 06:09 PM
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This is a small portion from Episode 5 "Blues for a Red Planet" from the "Cosmos" series, presented by the renowned Carl Sagan.
On this video Carl Sagan talks about the Viking Lander and our early attempts to search for life on planet Mars and beyond.

To those who haven't seen the series, I highly recommend it, you will truly be inspired!



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by RFBurns
Could be some form of fungus algie. Temps at the surface during the Martian summers can reach up to 75* F in and around the equator areas.


Please provide proof of that statement, that's the first time I have heard a temp like that.



ARTICLE

From article:


Temperature: The lowest surface temperature on Mars is –190° F (–123° C), while the hottest temperature is 90° F (32° C).



Why cant people do simple searches for the proof they seek????




Cheers!!!!



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
Why cant people do simple searches for the proof they seek????
Because it's easier to ask.


And I think that it is a good behaviour to publish our sources.



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by fooks
 


Giant Mutant Asparagus, I love it. Maybe Hollywood should get busy making a movie about it! It would be the most original movie out of Hollywood since Alien.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by RFBurns
Why cant people do simple searches for the proof they seek????


Because they come here so we can do their homework assignments for them...

but seriously very few actually follow links to documents anyway much less read them... as they already have their minds made up...

Its frustrating but true



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 


Great work enhancing the image. It does look like there are volcanic vents at the center of some of the "blotches". This means we now have ALL the requirements for life namely water and an energy source. Some of you may recall NASA's statement a little while ago saying more methane was being produced than could be explained by natural processes alone. If we do find life on mars on the surface it could just well be in areas like this where there is an energy source and surface water/frost.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Because they come here so we can do their homework assignments for them...

but seriously very few actually follow links to documents anyway much less read them... as they already have their minds made up...

Its frustrating but true




It's also frustrating when images are posted without sources or comment other than the implication that they are something they are not.

[edit on 3/8/2009 by Phage]



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Phage
I'm glad you point out the myth that science (and the dreaded NASA) insist that there is no life on Mars when, in fact, the search for life and/or conditions conducive to life is one of the primary missions of all of the missions to Mars.


Let it never be said that phage can not come up with a unintended angle to a good deal of the information i present.
NASA may not insist that there is no life on Mars but they have done very little to reaffirm the original highly suggestive information that were are first considered proof positive before it was overturned based on presumptions that have not been validated since.


Maybe Mars even has life today. The evidence sent back from Mars by two Viking Landers in 1976 and 1977 was not clearcut (6). In fact, NASA's first press release about the Viking tests announced that the results were positive. The "Labelled Release" (LR) experiments had given positive results. But after lengthy discussions in which Carl Sagan participated, NASA reversed its position, mainly because another experiment detected no organics in the soil. Yet Gilbert V. Levin, the principal designer of the LR experiment, still believes the tests pointed to life on Mars (7). When the same two experiments were run on soil from Antarctica, the same conflicting results were obtained (LR - positive; organics - negative.) Soil from Antarctica definitely contains life. The test for organics was negative because it is far less sensitive than the LR experiment. The same problem could have caused the organics test on Mars to give a false negative.

www.panspermia.org...



All the links necessary for life on Mars have been forged:

* terrestrial microorganisms can live under Martian conditions; there is liquid water available to microorganisms on Mars;
* contrary to the GCMS results, organic matter seems certain to be on Mars (photo-chemically synthesized from the atmospheric gases and also deposited by meteorites);
* Earth and Mars have traded materials that could readily have contained bacteria; bacteria can be preserved for up to millions of years under the vacuum and low temperature of space travel;
* bacteria transported in meteorites can survive entry temperatures into the Mars or Earth atmospheres and the thermal and mechanical shock of landing;
* and freeze-dried bacteria are known to establish full metabolism very shortly upon entering a favorable environment.

These facts relieve scientists from the difficulty of accepting separate origins of life on Mars and Earth, an extremely unlikely happenstance. Now, it is possible that life on either planet may have come from the other -- or from a third source.

www.spacedaily.com...



Then in March of 2000, Dr. Steven A. Benner, Professor of Chemistry at the University of Florida, published an important new paper about the sensitivity of the Viking GCMS experiment.

Titled "The Missing Organic Molecules On Mars" (published in the PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES, Vol. 97, p 2425, March 18, 2000), Benner et al., concluded that the Viking GCMS was insensitive to certain organic molecules including those left behind by any microbial life that might have been on Mars.

No longer could the Viking GCMS findings rule out life on Mars. The plaque mounted at the entrance of the Viking Lander exhibit in the National Air and Space Museum reads, "The biological experiments on the Viking Landers did not detect any positive signs of life or any of the organic compounds that are so abundant on the Earth." With Benner's new findings on the shortcomings of the Viking GCMS, would the plaque at the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum need to be rewritten?

www.eurekalert.org...



Lafleur, who helped develop the Viking GCMS instrument, and a co-author of the original report of no organic matter on Mars, revealed unpublished results of pre-mission tests.They showed that the instrument sent to Mars could easily have missed biologically significant amounts of organic matter in the soil, as it had in a number of tests on Earth.

Thus, the Mars GCMS results no longer can be considered proof that the LR failed to detect living microorganisms.The 1976 Viking Mission LR results met all the pre-mission criteria established for the experiment by NASA and its scientific review committees for proof of life on Mars.

However, the failure of the GCMS to find organic matter in the Martian surface material led to caution. Accordingly, Levin did not claim the LR experiment had detected life, but merely stated that the results were consistent with biology. Other scientists stated that, without organic matter, there could be no life.

www.spacedaily.com...


More importantly what has been , or rather not been, done since?


Levin, however, is critical of the latest missions, saying they will not answer the fundamental question of whether or not there's life on Mars.

"There's no life detection experiment on any of these expeditions," he said.Levin says he has a new life-detection experiment that could settle the issue, but NASA declined to include it on its mission.

"NASA is afraid to re-examine the data," said Levin. "If it is proved wrong, these people would have egg on their face."

news.nationalgeographic.com...



Not since the twin Viking Landers set down on the surface of Mars over 24 years ago, has NASA included a biologist, paleontologist, or ichnologist (study of trace fossils) on any of its missions.

As such, the Viking program enlisted the talents of three Principal Biology Investigators, a Biology Team Leader and co-experimenters.


Along with this official group were other interested biologists outside the program looking at the data in a peer review process that would lead to the publication of the scientific papers that followed.

www.spacedaily.com...



“The fact that there have been warm and wet places beneath the surface of Mars since before life began on Earth, and that some are probably still there, means that there is a possibility that primitive micro-organisms survive on Mars today," study co-leader John Murray at the Open University in the UK said in today's statement. "This mission has changed many of my long-held opinions about Mars – we now have to go there and check it out."

Other researchers have speculated that if life ever formed on Mars, it could have gone underground and survived to the present day. (Lack of surface water now, plus the harsh radiation at Mars, suggest it's very unlikely there is any modern-day surface life.)

Many other scientists have said firm proof of life on Mars, if it exists, would require a new mission. The rovers on Mars and spacecraft orbiting there are not equipped to find life directly.

www.space.com...



In fact, the lead scientist for the Mars Pathfinder imaging team, Dr. Peter Smith who actually designed the Mars Pathfinder Imaging camera (IMP), conducted a rudimentary search for chlorophyll on Mars with fellow IMP team member, Dr. Justin Maki, a software designer.

Smith and Maki reported some spots had a higher than normal infrared brightness under the rock Scoobee-do and a few other areas surrounding the Mars Pathfinder landing site, but later dismissed this finding as a "possible image misregistration".

The fact is, Drs. Smith and Maki were not qualified to make the judgment regarding a biological interpretation of the IMP data and Smith's comments to ABC News demonstrate this. The point is both Dr. Peter Smith, and Dr. Justin Maki are excellent scientists in their fields, but why leave something as an important as the search for life on Mars to scientists who are not qualified to make a biological assessment?

Perhaps because of the limited spectral rage of the IR filters employed in their search, the rational was that the Mars Pathfinder IMP camera would only be able to register the most blatant signs of chlorophyll if it were indeed on Mars. No one on the Mars Pathfinder team realistically expected them to find chlorophyll, but yet, something was detected. In 1999, I had an opportunity to conduct an experiment of my own regarding how geologists interpret their findings. Last June, the University of Buffalo, was host to the Second Mars Surveyor Landing Site Workshop.

www.spacedaily.com...



The Spirit rover, and its twin, Opportunity, which is scheduled to land later this month, cannot perform complex chemical or biological tests that could prove the presence of life. The National Aeronautics and Space Administration aims to tackle the hardest questions last, after years of geological spade work to see if Mars was, or still is, conducive to life. The robot geologists are to look mainly for traces of water, examine rocks, minerals and land forms for clues to the planet's watery past.

astrobiology.berkeley.edu...


So that is my question to you? How do you think they could find life if they are not in fact looking for it?


This has not been a secret. These are not new disclosures.


There have been dozens of disclosures about Mars from just the turn of the century so i don't know where you got that idea from. Then again there doesn't HAVE to be new information as according to our best scientific tests even back in the 70s we found life on the first try at it.


But quoting articles from 1957 and 1966 based on ground based telescopic observations?


Where did i quote any of those? If so can you show that the data have in fact become useless?

[edit on 8-3-2009 by StellarX]



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by Nicolas Flamel
If it looks like a duck...


then its a duck or is it just some rocks on mars that look like trees
lol


i think theres definatly someting on mars we have not been told about and i cant wait till they go to europa



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by StellarX

So that is my question to you? How do you think they could find life if they are not in fact looking for it?

One step at a time. The Viking mission provided ambiguous data (at best), it neither proved or disproved the existence of life. Scientists are being more careful to devise experiments which can provide more definitive answers but what can be accomplished on each mission is limited. The MSL will be another step. Levin's ideas are well known. So is the chip on his shoulder about the way he feels he has been treated. Have you seen the criticism of his arguments as well? He is not the only scientist to have studied the data from Viking. Surely you don't take only one opinion into account do you?



This has not been a secret. These are not new disclosures.


There have been dozens of disclosures about Mars from just the turn of the century so i don't know where you got that idea from. Then again there doesn't HAVE to be new information as according to our best scientific tests even back in the 70s we found life on the first try at it.
I meant disclosure in the sense of revealing previously hidden information. You are correct, the new information is presented as it is found. Again, Levin's interpretation of the Viking data is not the only interpretation.



Where did i quote any of those? If so can you show that the data have in fact become useless?


A new test for the presence of vegetation on Mars depends on the fact that all organic molecules have absorption bands in the vicinity of 3.4 ...

adsabs.harvard.edu... (your link is broken)
The findings of Viking and the other landers and rovers (as well as orbiters) show that this study is obsolete.


If there is vegetation on Mars...

www.sciencemag.org...
Science 15 July 1966:
Vol. 153. no. 3733, pp. 255 - 265
Another quote from that article:

The canals may be real formations, without sharp borders and 100 to 200 kilometers wide, due to a systematic alignment. of the dark surface elements. They may indicate cracks in the planet's crust, radiating from the point of impact.

Lowell's "canals" aren't there. But the article is pretty much nothing but speculation anyway.

[edit on 3/8/2009 by Phage]



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 03:34 PM
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This is definitely a weird spot on mars. The "blotches" even go up hill against the natural grain of the terrain. The folks at HIRISE said flat out they're not sure what this is, but I don't buy the claim "One possibility is that these are (frost covered) dark sand dunes that heat up more easily than the surrounding terrain."

If you look at the image below, the sand dunes seem to stop near the center of a blotch.




The fragmented meteor impact theory is also tenuous - it does not explain the filament leaving the main body in the image below:




This could be evidence of current active volcanism on mars or something even stranger.



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