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Healthcare is 'a privilege...not a right': GOP lawmaker

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posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by djvexd
 


Wrong!!!

Countries with the best health care by rank

1 France
2 Japan
3 Australia
4 Spain
5 Italy
6 Canada
7 Norway
8 Netherlands
9 Sweden
10 Greece
11 Austria
12 Germany
13 Finland
14 New Zealand
15 Denmark
16 United Kingdom
17 Ireland
18 Portugal
19 United States

Acutally ours is the most expensive.


www.aneki.com...

Myth: The U.S. has the best health care system in the world.

Fact: The U.S. has among the worst health statistics of all rich nations.


Againt the most coslty

www.huppi.com...




posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


Actually, neither of those things are good ideas in my mind. I am one of those odd people that can think for themselves.

I also don't think that the government getting into every nook and cranny of my life is a good thing. Government run social programs are just another form of government control. They don't make good decisions with what they have to run now.....I would hate to see the decisions they make when it comes to the social good. Just look at Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid......man, those are some efficient programs, well-run, and totally solvent. :shk:

I also think that people are responsible for their own actions, their own lives, and their own decisions. If I want to help society, I give to charities, volunteer, etc., because then I know where the money and time are going.

Tax hikes and tax dollars can go anywhere and we have no say at all. We've seen that recently.....but, hey, let's let them take more of our taxes and go on faith that it will improve our health care system and take care of everyone.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:18 PM
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The "right" to healthcare cannot be enforced without committing fractional murder on some other person (ie the rich man)


Maybe the rich guy should hand over some of his money so people won't need as much healthcare. Everyone knows that poor people have the worst health, perhaps if the poor had more resources they wouldn't get sick and need as much healthcare in the first place.

The rich get by with screwing the poor out of a lot of things. Food laws are lax and things like aspartame and MSG hurt the poor but sure help the big companies steal the life and money from its consumers. The rich "want a little more" and its called "fair" and "capitalism" yet the poor "want a little more" and its totally bashed. Seems like a double standard. All you have to do to a rich person is take away all his money and he'll be asking for the same things as the poor person.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by ghaleon12
 


Property and money transfer never has to be a solution to a problem like this. Obama said he would introduce technological change. Let's hold him to his promise.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


And AGAIN other than posting those 2 websites, which by the way, look more like blogsites, you haven't posted ANYTHING other than a laughing face. The fact that on one of your posts America ranks DEAD last of all of the countries should be a reasonably good image of it's fallacy. But you have your agenda as it is . Enjoy



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by skeptic1
 


Hey, big news skep - the government is ALREADY in every nook and cranny of your life.
If you work, eat, drink, breathe the government controls it - don't you get that?

The freedoms that people spout on about are an illusion and a lie propagated by those in power so that people will rest easy at night secure in the false belief that they have freedom - a misguided concept at best, a dangerous one at any time.

If we are ever to progress as a species then we HAVE to understand that we have a moral, ethical and societal duty to look after ALL members of our society.



[edit on 6/3/2009 by budski]



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by djvexd
 


I don't had any agendas but to broaden peoples perspective.

It is hard when you see the reality of what our nation has become, we are a very expensive nation that can not even take care of its own people and need government assistance to do just that.

Plain and simple, no agendas here my friend.

feel good that at least we rank first when it comes to our military might even when economically we are not longer number one either



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


I applaud you!


You also get a star..



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


So, if they are already in control, why not just give them more, right?

Morals and government do not mix. They never have and they never will. These days, morals and society don't seem to mix, either.

It is up to each individual to follow their own moral code (mine and yours probably aren't the same). And, as an individual, I should be able to use charities to help my fellow man and not be forced to give to the government who may or may not use the money they take from me to help anyone other than themselves.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:28 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Well here is where that list falls apart marg. Yes we spend more money. But ALOT of it goes to research and creation of medical techniques and equiptment as well as doctor's salaries. Why would ANYONE want to expand their abilities if there wasn't some sort of reward , outside of a pat on the back . As much as we want to put a humanistic face on the profession it is what it is, hard work and research requires compensation.

[edit on 6-3-2009 by djvexd]



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by budski

If we are ever to progress as a species then we HAVE to understand that we have a moral, ethical and societal duty to look after ALL members of our society.


Then you write Obama and tell him to take an extra $500 out of YOUR account every month to pay for the crackhead, lazy, illegal, peices of crap who won't work, won't pay for anything and DEMAND to be taken care of by those of us who DO/DID make something of ourselves. I work to hard to LOSE MORE money because "members" of society have left themselves become this way. Anyone who wants to sign on to this socialist BS and pay for those who abuse/use the system make sure YOUR the ones paying for it...I'm sure your family won't mind the cut in budget, and the more time you spnd at work making up for the cash your so willing to let Obama take for others.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by 44soulslayer
I agree with this man.

Rights only exist so long as the method of enforcing that right does not conflict with the natural rights of any other person.

For example, everyone has a right to free will and do whatever they want. However, if they "want" to kill someone else, then they cannot as it interferes with the other person's right to life.

So how does socialized healthcare come into this? Well to provide a "right to healthcare", the government would have to tax other people. Taxes take away money from others, therefore infringing their natural property rights.

To make money requires effort and time, and time is a measure of how long a person has spent of their life. Therefore if you take away someone's property that they have worked for, you are taking away a part of their life. This is why theft and taxes are tantamount to fractional murder.

The "right" to healthcare cannot be enforced without committing fractional murder on some other person (ie the rich man), therefore it should be unenforceable, and therefore doesn't exist.


let's see...tax the rich man more...or...let all the people that cannot afford healthcare die...yeah, right...that's a fair tradeoff...we need to just get rid of all those poor people anyway, right? in fact...let's jack-up the cost of healthcare more so the wealthier people can be rid of the welfare/lowpay mongrols, that are destroying the U.S.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by ghaleon12


The "right" to healthcare cannot be enforced without committing fractional murder on some other person (ie the rich man)


Maybe the rich guy should hand over some of his money so people won't need as much healthcare. Everyone knows that poor people have the worst health, perhaps if the poor had more resources they wouldn't get sick and need as much healthcare in the first place.

The rich get by with screwing the poor out of a lot of things. Food laws are lax and things like aspartame and MSG hurt the poor but sure help the big companies steal the life and money from its consumers. The rich "want a little more" and its called "fair" and "capitalism" yet the poor "want a little more" and its totally bashed. Seems like a double standard. All you have to do to a rich person is take away all his money and he'll be asking for the same things as the poor person.


LMFAO

YOU are a part of this problem. Just because someone is poor does NOT mean that you have to take from someone that has earned it. What happens when all the "RICH" (anyone that actually has a job and makes money more than someone else) are out of work? WHO they hell are they going to get money from?

By virtue of what you say, we should come take everything you have from you so that you can be just like all the poor.

The more I read of this type of liberal handout agenda the more I can't wait for my time on this earth to be over. I am tired of paying taxes because I have to take care of some lazy ass slacker that realized he doesn't have to work, the government with redistribute the wealth so they are taken care of.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:33 PM
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Wow, I couldn't make it thru the emotional replies to/for/against the spectre of dum de dum......national health care. Well if you would go read the Hill-Burton Act, you'd see it's already here. What is it about "free care in Perpetuity" that is so hard to grasp?

About Hill-Burton Free Care Program, Titles VI & XVI

$4.6 billion total grants and $1.5 billion total loans between 1946 and 1997
6,800 health care facilities in more than 4,000 U.S. communities
Title VI
In 1946, Congress passed P.L. 79-725, the Hospital Survey and Construction Act, sponsored by Senators Lister Hill and Harold Burton and widely known as the Hill-Burton Act. It was designed to provide Federal grants to modernize hospitals that had become obsolete due to lack of capital investment throughout the period of the Great Depression and World War II (1929 to 1945). Hill-Burton hospitals were required to provide uncompensated services for 20 years after receiving funds.

Title XVI
In 1975, Congress enacted an amendment to the Hill-Burton Program, Title XVI of the Public Health Service Act, which established Federal grants, loan guarantees and interest subsidies for health facilities. Facilities assisted under Title XVI were required to provide uncompensated services in perpetuity. Title XVI transferred the enforcement responsibilities from States to the Federal government, and required more stringent investigation, monitoring and compliance standards. The Act also empowered the Government to recover grant funds in certain situations when the facility is sold, transferred to an ineligible entity, or ceases to be used for an eligible purpose within the 20-year obligation period. In 1979, regulations established compliance levels (adjusted by the change in the Consumer Price Index for medical care) eligibility (based solely on the Federal Poverty Guidelines), record maintenance, and reporting requirements.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by wolf241e
 





Healthcare is 'a privilege...not a right': GOP lawmaker

Does that mean that the congressman will introduce a bill into Congress that eliminates the Health Care that is provided to members of Congress? I will await his bill. Unfortunately, I think that will be a long wait. He certainly didn't hesitate to accept the free health care that he and his fellow members get, AT TAXPAYER EXPENSE, did he?

Hypocrisy.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by skeptic1
 


Reform is another issue entirely - what you SHOULD be able to do and what you CAN do are different things.

The governments already have all the power and complete control over every aspect of our lives, so we wouldn't be giving them more power as they already have it all.

We don't live in some utopian ideal where all is good and everyone can do what they want without it affecting others - we have to make best use of what we have, and look after each other to the best of our ability, working within the framework that is currently in place.

A society has obligations - if everyone did exactly as they pleased, I submit that most people espousing personal freedom would last about as long as a snowflake in hell.

Crime comes from greed and the inability to look beyond personal worth and what an indvividual wants for him/her self.

In a society we are responsible not only for our own actions, but also how those actions affect others.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by djvexd
 


Actuall the reason why US is so expensive is because health care is nothing but a big mulitibillion dollar empire with a money pot at the expenses of the people.

Here is another link to the best countries with health care and this one is by the The World Health organization

This people have US even lower than the first link I posted.

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America

www.photius.com...


[edit on 6-3-2009 by marg6043]



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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Originally posted by djvexd
reply to post by marg6043
 


Well here is where that list falls apart marg. Yes we spend more money. But ALOT of it goes to research and creation of medical techniques and equiptment as well as doctor's salaries. Why would ANYONE want to expand their abilities if there wasn't some sort of reward , outside of a pat on the back . As much as we want to put a humanistic face on the profession it is what it is, hard work and research requires compensation.

[edit on 6-3-2009 by djvexd]


Marge doesn't need any help responding, but I am compelled to contribute.

Research as we 'buy' it is a scam. It's another one of those - 'they set their own prices by magical means' scams.

Research for the most part is one of the most lucrative businesses in the world, after insurance and 'brokering'. All of which is 'too complicated' for the normal human to understand, but ends up the same way..., someone getting obscenely rich.

I worked for a prominent research foundation for 5 years - in the money management end of things. Trust me, it's a huge ripoff, with universities pulling in most of the immediate profit - so long as the corporate sponsors get their eternal cut in the end. The NIH and other such institutions are manned by coporate whores who see to it that it all works out profitably in the end - because THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS to the institution.

The final purpose of all institutional activity in the research world is two-fold - Increase revenue and thus political relevance.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by rcwj75
 


You are already taking care of them with you tax payer money is called, Wellfare.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:38 PM
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reply to post by ghaleon12
 


heck maybe the rich guy could take a paycut, so the common working man could actually earn a living...then all the danged social programs could be reduced some!!!

but, well, all of yas complaining about how the government is taking your money....sit down one day and actually think about it....

what would the healthcare system be like, with no federal funds going into it?? and I mean none!! I imagine, at least till the system adjusted, well, there would be quite a few layoffs, since well, if you eliminate those on medicaid and medicare, well, what would you end up with as patients....a few rich families and a bunch of deadbeats?
and, well, alot of federal money goes into the research and stuff, take that away, and well, there wouldn't be nearly as many advancements now would there?
and then let's consider the workforce and wages in general...the food stamps, the hud, all of that, well, alot of that assistance is going into WORKING FAMILIES to help them make ends meet...so let's cut that...how long do you think the homeless, hungry person will be able to work before he starts demanding a raise, going on strike, or just plain out rioting? gee, those rich guys might have to sacrifice some of their earnings, just to pacify the unhappy masses!

what all the sweet dearling republicans don't want to admit is just how all these free handouts really benefit them!! they can charge more for their rental properties than they would be able to get if the people were depending solely on what they made. they can charge more for their medical services, get cheaper labor, charge more for the necessities of life...
and well...reap a bigger profit...and then they have all the neat little deductions, off shore bank accounts and whatnot to ensure that it's not them who gets to pay for it all! or at least reduce their contribution!


Maxmars

I'd be interested to know, just how much of the funding into this research is taxpayer money?


[edit on 6-3-2009 by dawnstar]



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