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Don't let them tell you that "The Theory of Evolution" is a fact.

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posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by noobfun
...becasue you have made an entire thread about a pointless misuse of language that can easily be misunderstood to our creationist/Id believing friends


I'm making sure it won't be misunderstood. I'm making sure with the TRUTH.

The Theory of Evolution is not a fact. I've proved it isn't. Why hide from that TRUTH? In fact I can quote you saying it.

Cheers.




posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by JPhish
reply to post by noobfun
 


hmm i think you're overlooking the purpose of this thread Nfun. Check out my last post. I might be wrong and BAC can let me know if i am. But i think i've elucidated his concerns.


You are absolutely right. Thanks.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 08:01 AM
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reply to post by B.A.C.
 


Why dont you just say "The fact of evolution is a not a theory"?? Because its an idiotic unneccasary thing to say. If i wanna be difficult like you, then i could ask which of the theories you are reffering to? And what evolution are you talking about.. biological?

Brainwashed? By? Every book made on the subject? By all the teachers and scientists? I suppose i brainwashed myself to believe in this stuff. And since most people believe in this, then they are brainwashed too. My, my, my..You need help my friend. Or no, forgive me.. WE need help. You're the only normal, smart person out there.

How bout you get serious, as ive seen your posts here on ATS lately, and i imagine you're sitting there laughing, from all the stuff you make up.

Your the perfect of example of those type of people that say:
war is peace
no YOU'VE been brainwashed
you cant prove it doesnt exist.. so its logical to believe it DOES exist
etc

THAT IS THE CONSPIRACY. People living in BACKWARDS LAND. The way they think is staggeringly ignorant. Looking forward to your next contribution to this site.. im sure it'll be fantastic.

Let this be the end of this thread



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by B.A.C.
 


I think you should have made it clear that although you state the theory is not a fact, you are not insinuating that evolution doesn't exist.

But you are right because a fact is effectively a specific occurrence and a theory is an explanation of a phenomena.

You stated in you op that evolution, the phenomena, is a fact. You for some reason feel that to believe the theory of evolution, however, you must relinquish your faith. Why? The theory puts no stakes in the non-existence of God so why should you feel that belief in the theory is mutually exclusive to faith in God?
Keeping in mind that faith is defined by belief without evidence, yet there is plenty of evidence for the theory, believing in it would not be the same as having faith in it.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 08:05 AM
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Really a bit of semantics, but suppose it's important enough.

For example, it is a scientific fact that humans and apes have a common ancestor. This is empirical observation. The explanation of this observable fact is theory. Thus, the mechanism underpinning this evolutionary process might have been solely darwinian or not. That's were the theory comes in.


[edit on 6-3-2009 by melatonin]



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by Daniem
reply to post by B.A.C.
 


Why dont you just say "The fact of evolution is a not a theory"?? Because its an idiotic unneccasary thing to say. If i wanna be difficult like you, then i could ask which of the theories you are reffering to? And what evolution are you talking about.. biological?

Brainwashed? By? Every book made on the subject? By all the teachers and scientists? I suppose i brainwashed myself to believe in this stuff. And since most people believe in this, then they are brainwashed too. My, my, my..You need help my friend. Or no, forgive me.. WE need help. You're the only normal, smart person out there.

How bout you get serious, as ive seen your posts here on ATS lately, and i imagine you're sitting there laughing, from all the stuff you make up.

Your the perfect of example of those type of people that say:
war is peace
no YOU'VE been brainwashed
you cant prove it doesnt exist.. so its logical to believe it DOES exist
etc

THAT IS THE CONSPIRACY. People living in BACKWARDS LAND. The way they think is staggeringly ignorant. Looking forward to your next contribution to this site.. im sure it'll be fantastic.

Let this be the end of this thread


Have I offended you in some way?

I've proved The Theory of Evolution is not a fact. Whether you like that truth or not.

It's all about semantics. ALL about semantics. Evolutionists claim that The Theory of Evolution is fact.

I submit the first 35 pages of this thread as evidence: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Dangerous stuff to start calling theories, facts.

How about we call it what it is? Ever think of that?

deny ignorance




[edit on 6-3-2009 by B.A.C.]



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by B.A.C.
There you go again.

I'm NOT playing word games. You are. Yes, it's all about semantics. Look at the controversy from my simple statement.

Listen closely now:

Is Evolution a verifiable observable fact? Yup.

Is Gravity a verifiable observable fact? Yup

Is the Theory of Gravity a fact. Nope

Is the Theory of Evolution a fact. Nope

Theories EXPLAIN facts.

You're proof of the conspiracy. You have blinders on and can't see just how simple my statement is.


[edit on 6-3-2009 by B.A.C.]


Are you making the statement that all theories which explain common phenomena are conspiracies? Is the theory of gravity or cell theory a conspiracy? What about the theory of evolution doesn't make sense, is wrong, or is a conspiracy? Feel free to be specific.

I'm more than willing to open my eyes, but apparently I need you to help me. Explain what the conspiracy is. I want to know which part of the theory is incorrect.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 08:19 AM
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reply to post by B.A.C.
 


So this entire thread is over semantics because people say a theory is a fact when you know well that they're referring to evolution being a fact and not the theory? Are you kidding?

Yes, a theory is not a fact. Theories explain facts. No one disputes that. The dispute is whether evolution is or is not occurs. If that's all this thread was over it should be removed.

No one cares about the semantics, they care about the meaning of what they're trying to say. If you know the point they're making don't try to say they're wrong. You know what they're trying to say.

We know a theory is not a fact. That doesn't make sense. You're right. There is no conspiracy.




posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 08:22 AM
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reply to post by alkali
 


Read the post you quoted. It explains it so simply.

I have no problem with The Theory of Evolution. All of the facts within the theory may very well be correct.

But a Theory isn't a fact. A Theory explains facts.

It's very simple, and proven by science's own definition of both "Theory" and "Fact".

Theory = explains facts.
Facts = verifiable observations.

The conspiracy part comes in when it takes 5 pages of a thread for ONE person to admit this. I say science and evolutionist have brainwashed people into thinking The Theory of Evolution is a fact.

You're still asking me to explain it. What page are we on now?



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by B.A.C.
I'm making sure it won't be misunderstood. I'm making sure with the TRUTH.

The Theory of Evolution is not a fact. I've proved it isn't. Why hide from that TRUTH? In fact I can quote you saying it.

Cheers.


but the truth is alo that evolution has been seen in action, tested proded measured

but still many people say it not the truth its a lie,

the truth is there is no evidence for god but earlier you stated it is a fact of his/her/it existance

the truth isnt subjective, the ones we agree with are,

its the truth the universe is expanding

the truth the earth is over 4.2 billion years old (worlds oldest known rock)

its the truth that breaking a mirror wont bring you bad luck

the truth that a bunch of stars 150 million light years dont wont and couldnt effect if your going to meet the love of your life tommorrow or have a lucky day

the truth the world is sphericle

wouldnt take much looking around to find people who dont agree those truths are truths



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 08:25 AM
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maybe not a conspiracy, more like people accidentally contradicting themselves due to poor English and grammar ?



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by alkali
reply to post by B.A.C.
 


So this entire thread is over semantics because people say a theory is a fact when you know well that they're referring to evolution being a fact and not the theory? Are you kidding?

Yes, a theory is not a fact. Theories explain facts. No one disputes that. The dispute is whether evolution is or is not occurs. If that's all this thread was over it should be removed.

No one cares about the semantics, they care about the meaning of what they're trying to say. If you know the point they're making don't try to say they're wrong. You know what they're trying to say.

We know a theory is not a fact. That doesn't make sense. You're right. There is no conspiracy.



No one cares about semantics? Maybe you don't, but I do.

If I accept the idea that you can say "The Theory of Evolution is a fact", and don't complain about it, I won't be able to argue ANY other view that doesn't go along with that. Is that what science is about?

So I say The Theory of Evolution is not a fact. I proved it.

The fact you say it's a fact or would even argue over such a basic true statement proves you've been brainwashed.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by noobfun

Originally posted by B.A.C.
I'm making sure it won't be misunderstood. I'm making sure with the TRUTH.

The Theory of Evolution is not a fact. I've proved it isn't. Why hide from that TRUTH? In fact I can quote you saying it.

Cheers.


but the truth is alo that evolution has been seen in action, tested proded measured

but still many people say it not the truth its a lie,

the truth is there is no evidence for god but earlier you stated it is a fact of his/her/it existance

the truth isnt subjective, the ones we agree with are,

its the truth the universe is expanding

the truth the earth is over 4.2 billion years old (worlds oldest known rock)

its the truth that breaking a mirror wont bring you bad luck

the truth that a bunch of stars 150 million light years dont wont and couldnt effect if your going to meet the love of your life tommorrow or have a lucky day

the truth the world is sphericle

wouldnt take much looking around to find people who dont agree those truths are truths


I don't care about any of that.

The Theory of Evolution is not a fact.

It's the only point I've stated on this whole thread. I'm not arguing, you are.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 08:34 AM
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reply to post by B.A.C.
 


I think it takes 5 pages for someone to admit it because they're expecting you to present a conspiracy, something a bit more complicated than semantics. People read into what you say and over complicate it because they expect something complicated. They don't expect arguments on how to properly say things. This isn't a conspiracy. We know a theory is a not a fact. When someone says, "the theory of evolution is a fact" you know what they mean, they just didn't say it correctly. You know they mean evolution is a fact, that evolution occurs.

You're being difficult on purpose. Stop.

As you know from the u2u, I'm a Christian. How could you ever expect to win someone to Christ by being so hard to get a long with? I'd hate to be on the receiving end of your attempt to witness.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 08:35 AM
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Originally posted by JPhish
There is a "conspiracy" to make the word "theory" synonymous with "fact", particularly in relation to evolutionary theory. I see it all the time, in youtube videos, books, forums, the works. But the plot relies more on the graying of terms to give evolutionary theory an infallible appearance, than it does the planning and cooperation of it's zealots.
i agree theres a greying of the terms but as ive aid i think it more a case of poor language use rather then a big conspiracy

evolution = a fact
the theory of evolution = an explenation of facts

saying "Toe is a fact" i no more wrong then saying "evolution is only a theory"

becasue evolution is a fact, its just poor language use thats becoming the norm in the ame way as the other example i gave 'i dont see anything' instread of the more accurate i dont see.. what i am looking for/your saying is there

so are they both conspiracies?

or both poor language usage? i know in many cases with the creationit it only a theory an elemnt of dihonety i involve when they have uualkly be introduced to the differances between theory and scientific theory



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by alkali
reply to post by B.A.C.
 


I think it takes 5 pages for someone to admit it because they're expecting you to present a conspiracy, something a bit more complicated than semantics. People read into what you say and over complicate it because they expect something complicated. They don't expect arguments on how to properly say things. This isn't a conspiracy. We know a theory is a not a fact. When someone says, "the theory of evolution is a fact" you know what they mean, they just didn't say it correctly. You know they mean evolution is a fact, that evolution occurs.

You're being difficult on purpose. Stop.

As you know from the u2u, I'm a Christian. How could you ever expect to win someone to Christ by being so hard to get a long with? I'd hate to be on the receiving end of your attempt to witness.


No, it's the main argument used by Evolutionists. There are 35 pages of it in another thread in this section as proof.

This one little statement "The Theory of Evolution is a fact" will STOP someone from believing anything else. I'm not talking just belief in God, I'm talking about belief in other scientists as well. It isn't true. I can and have proved it. That's why it's VERY important to be perfectly clear.

The Theory of Evolution is not a fact. I proved it. That's all. It's TRUTH.

Sorry if it makes you uncomfortable, that's not my wish.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 09:01 AM
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evolution is a fact. sceintists just need to stop using the word "theory" . i guess that would satisfy you, since your so hung up on the use of this word.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 09:14 AM
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As I posted in another thread:

Evolution = Observable Fact
"Theory" of evolution (or the Process of Evolution) = Still being refined and theorized.

Therefore technically speaking the THEORY of evolution will not be a fact until all aspects of evolution are explained.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 09:18 AM
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Listen up.. the problem is the word fact, and its uses. When you say:
"dont let them tell you that "the theory of evolution" is a fact"... which meaning of the word fact are you referring to?

I thought you were implying that The theory of Evolution (natural selection) is not true but acctually false. I did not think of the word as scientific fact, but the opposide of factual, beeing fiction.


Fact may be argued under authority of a specific pedagogy, such as scientific facts:

In this case it would be: The theory of evolution is not a scientific fact, as a theory is a theory and facts are facts.

________________________________________________________________


Evolution has been described as:
fact and theory
fact not theory
only a theory, not a fact"

This illustrates a terminological confusion that hampers discussion.

en.wikipedia.org...

(remember that to use the terms right in science, we are talking about scientific theory and scientific fact)



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by B.A.C.
No, it's the main argument used by Evolutionists. There are 35 pages of it in another thread in this section as proof.


From the very first post, Andre actually makes the distinction between fact and theory.


originally posted by Andre
Something being a theory is not mutually exclusive for it to be a fact. Evolution is both a theory and a fact, for example the theory of gravity is a theory and is also a scientific law, and a fact. Another important element of the theory is that it is falsifiable - that it can be proven wrong. That is why pseudo religious dogma theories: creation and Intelligent Design are not actual scientific theoris and can never be because they are not falsifiable. You can not dispove god did it, the same way you can disprove the theory of evolution quite easily by having fossils out of order.



His thread is actually another attempt to clear the semantics used by creationists, hence the 'it's only a theory'. Which is used in the sense of just a wild guess by creationists, when a scientific theory is a well-supported and -tested scientific explanation.

He might start becoming opaque over time, but the thread was originally clear enough.

So a thread about semantics is discussed by another thread based on semantics, lol.

Evolution is fact and theory.

Much ado about nothing.

[edit on 6-3-2009 by melatonin]




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