A bizarre universe may be lurking in the shadows

Dark matter is all around us.

It is what forms the structure of what some call the "afterlife" or "spirit world".

Here is something to ponder.

I don't believe dark matter is quantifiable by our current means of comprehension.

With our current physical senses we can only perceive certain levels of light with the rods and cones in our eyes, and even if we were able to somehow mathematically prove Dark Matter, our physical limitations would not allow true perception.

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by MarrsAttax

 

How can you wrap space when space is an attribute?
This is such nonsense and coming from the "greatest minds" like Einstein, since they couldn't find a sensible explanation for what they perceive.

...

So much energy has been wasted on proving that space is "material", that it has density. Space has no material, perceptual, empirical properties.

No offense but what you've just said is nonsense.

I never said space is warped by mass. I said spacetime is warped. There is a difference.

The warping of spacetime was verified experimentally in 1919.

A quick search of wikipedia:

The gravity from a massive object (such as a galaxy cluster or black hole) can warp space-time, bending everything in it - including the paths followed by light rays from a bright background source. This alters the time taken for the light to reach an observer, and can both magnify and distort the apparent image of the background source.

...

According to general relativity, mass "warps" space-time to create gravitational fields and therefore bend light as a result. This theory was confirmed in 1919 during a solar eclipse, when Arthur Eddington observed the light from stars passing close to the sun was slightly bent, so that stars appeared slightly out of position.

Original article

Forgive me if I side with Einstein, Michio Kaku and nearly 100 years of well thought out science and mathematics.

reply to post by MarrsAttax


It is how we perceive phenomena. It doesn't really mean that space/time is material and that it can bend. How we manipulate what we perceive, is another matter though. For practical reasons we can "assume" this bendiness of time/space, but that's what it is, just a trick.

Time is the means of thinking. The "means". When we think or perceive, we "line up" things, we reflect upon them in linear fashion. That's all - we call it time. We can't perceive two things at the same time. We can make 25 frames per second and believe that it is a "solid stream" but it is not. it is still a row.

Scientists have completely forgotten where science came from in the first place.

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers


I think we could define a universe as distinct region of space, which operates within the uniformity of a set of fundamental forces.

Imagine if we could just ever so slightly tweak the different values for each of the fundamental physical forces in our universe. If gravity were disturbed somehow, then all the possible configurations of matter would be so abruptly different to produce a universe that is ever so completely indistinguishable from this one. You could imagine some kind of barrier between the universes. If you consider the prefix, "uni" in the word universe, then you could imagine a universe being a set of uniform physical constants. What exists outside this set, exists in another universe.

luth2.obspm.fr...
en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 6-3-2009 by cognoscente]

reply to post by DangerDeath


Sorry you lost me there.

I was just trying to point out an incorrect assumption in an earlier post with a fact that I thought was pretty cool and hoping to maybe spread a little learning along the way.

If you choose not to believe uncontroversial facts that have been verified by experiment then I'm certainly not going to be able to convince you otherwise.

I'm not going to say anything more on this as I think we're derailing the thread which was about dark matter I believe.

And what anyone knows about dark matter?
Nothing at all...

Originally posted by googolplex
reply to post by BlasteR

 

That is very interesting the only thing I have a problem with, is something pulling from out side of known universe.
It's hard to grasp something out side in the nothing unless a large amout of Dark Matter was created in first instance of Bang.
And is it possible if is such thing as Hawking Radiation exist, is what it is converted in to, is Dark Matter?
If this were so then seems would still end in closed universe.
And to say the Dark Matter has gravity, but it is not effected by own Dark matter gravity, only gravity effect, other matter.
It still seem gravity rules whether, dark or light variety? More Gravity?

That would be interesting massless gravity, it would have no effect on dark matter only matter, but how could it have gravity with out mass?

[edit on 6-3-2009 by googolplex]

Well, for starters, it is only a theory based on otherwise unexplainable phenomenon. That particular anomaly could be caused by something we have yet to discover within our own universe (instead of something outside of the known universe). There is no way to know.

The "Great Attractor" is just as bizarre.. Because from what we can tell everything is being pulled towards it (even other galaxies) but there is nothing there... (or at least we can't see anything that might be responsible). Might be dark matter related. It might not.

I also think there is somewhat of a preconceived idea that just because our universe has an outer boundary layer means that nothing can exist on the other side...(which makes most people think that perhaps nothing existed before the big bang).
This idea that nothing came before something is more or less a product of the human mind trying to comprehend the beginning of our universe and how it transformed itself into what it is today.

It has been theorized that our universe is not just an expanding bubble of matter and energy. Some scientists believe that there are even larger universes with outer "membranes" that occasionally collide in a semi-infinite space unleashing immense amounts of energy and creating events like our own big-bang. IMO, it is a little presumptuous to assume that "nothing" must have been here before something.

I believe there are other dimensions of reality superimposed over our own (perhaps even infinite universes). Any one of these universes could have collided to form our own universe. Allow me to explain...

We now know that black holes (some of them anyway) probably send matter and energy back in time through wormholes. This matter and energy is theorized to exit the other side of the wormhole through what scientists call "White Holes".. Thus, it is quite possible that one of these other universes in an adjacent dimension collapsed onto itself in a "big crunch".. And that this collapse tore a whole in space/time (in thise case a wormhole) that sent all this matter and energy and "spit it out" at the exit point of the wormhole... THUS... All matter and energy creates the universe we know today.I think some people think about the big-bang so 1-dimensionally that they just try to think of something being here beforehand to create it.. Not everything in the universe is so linear and straightforward. Massive stars even have the mass to tear holes in the fabric of our universe. A structure the size of an entire universe collapsing onto itself could, quite possibly, tear a whole in not only its own universe but ours. This could create an immense wormhole that exits other universes at other times in the distant past...

It might sound silly at first. But consider multiverse theory. If there really are infinite universes/dimensions superimposed over our own, then it is inevitable that at least one of these infinite universes collapsed onto itself and created our own big-bang by sending matter and energy back in time (possibly even to another universe altogether). I'm not even saying that is what happened. My overall message to you is that objects and events in our universe are not always so straightforward. Sometimes it takes a little imaginative theorizing to put the puzzle-pieces together.

I just think that some people who theorize about the big-bang and how our universe evolves over time don't think of some of these things. To most people, logic dictates that "something" created the big-bang therefore "NOTHING" must have existed before the big-bang. That is not necessarily true and it is a pretty large assumption. We live in an illogical universe.. But yet there it is. There are a multitude of possible explanations for what could have created the big-bang. But some people just don't have the ability to make those connections because everything must make sense to them. If the big-bang made sense we wouldn't still be trying to figure it all out. Logic is not part of the equation.

-ChriS

[edit on 6-3-2009 by BlasteR]

reply to post by BlasteR

Yes this is why it is so interesting the Micro and Macro Cosmic, or the thought that if measure nothing is neither large or small.

Then again is the one that we created our selves, that one will tie brain in knot.

One of the things I would think is, different Planes of existance, like this one being the Gross physical, Cause and Effect.
In my thoughts this one is needed to Balance others.
In the future, the Universe will be different the things in it will be different, will atain point of complete knowledge of all things.
If to build machine Bio- Mechinacal self repairing self replicating

There is no pratical way to answer these things, it is all not possible, we only think we are here, but are really only fooling self.

I do know one thing when I croak, I am going to laugh my ass off until it is nolonger possible. I will Die laughing.

At this point in my life it's not dark matter that has my attention but dark energy and the acceleration of the expansion of the universe. To me this is a huge concept that has the potential to rewrite all we thought we knmew about the universe

reply to post by godless


And who is going to do that?
Scientists are so confused, they don't even dare admit it.
It takes some literate people to do the rewriting.
The existing tools, theoretical tools, are totally insufficient.
The true science has been choked and marginalized by the PTB.

There's so much about this universe we don't know and probably will never know. It's all so complex that giving the world's most brilliant minds a thousand years to figure it out completely would be beyond futile.

But that's not to say that astrophysicists and the like shouldn't keep making progress in the field.

I personally believe that as our knowledge of what makes the universe tick contunies to progress, it may perhaps help guild the evolution of our species over hundreds or thousands of generations.

Look at how far humanity has come in the past five hundred years. If our knowledge of science continues to expand at the rate we've seen perhaps in a thousand years the world we live in today would be all but unrecognizable.

Try explaining to an astrolager 500 years ago just what a black hole is and the concept of dark matter.

Originally posted by sunny_2008ny


Isnt gravity real time. Look at light, it takes 8 minutes to travel to earth, but gravity is "real time" and instantaneous, there is no time lag.

This is not really true. There is a period of time it takes to reshape the space-time fabric that defines gravity in the relativistic model. If the sun instantly disappers, does it it mean that the earth would at the same instant moment move in a straight line due to the the sun's gravity influence absent?

Nope.
The present understanding of "gravity waves" is briefly stated here:
imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov...

Originally posted by centurion1211
Dark matter is all around us.

It is what forms the structure of what some call the "afterlife" or "spirit world".

Bravo!! I did not expect that!

I was just going to say that when I read the head line and first looked to see if someone else said it first.

It is where Magick lies. I have one foot there and one here at all times...

Originally posted by centurion1211
Dark matter is all around us.

The best comparison to the incidence of the dark matter is this photo.
pdphoto.org...

You can't detect the dark matter/smog around you, only from a distance. There was no dark matter when the universe was born and it would be interesting to see how Higgs boson that no longer exists naturally would interact with the constituents of the dark matter -- that's coming up when the LHC gets repaired and becomes operational again.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Originally posted by centurion1211
Dark matter is all around us.

It is what forms the structure of what some call the "afterlife" or "spirit world".

Bravo!! I did not expect that!

I was just going to say that when I read the head line and first looked to see if someone else said it first.

It is where Magick lies. I have one foot there and one here at all times...

Actually, when you start thinking about dark energy (rather than dark matter) it becomes apparent that these same kind of tiny particles blinking in and out of reality (which is what dark energy basically is) can be applied and compared to what we see with paranormal phenomenon. In 2005 I wrote a paper about this possible link between dark energy and the paranormal (If you would like me to email you the paper just u2u me).. When you ponder this link, it opens up a pandoras box of possibilities...

1- That by studying the paranormal (spirits of dead people) we might be studying dark energy in pure form.

2- Dark energy makes up the bulk of the known universe. It is possible that dark energy is this "aether" of paranormal energy in another dimension that occasionally interacts with ours.. (through intelligent agents manifesting that energy). We see these agents here on earth at haunted locations and they make themselves known in a variety of ways.. Audibly, visually, or otherwise. What we do know is that a physical manifestation of an entity is not physical matter. Perhaps it is simply dark energy that is artificially constructed to form, say, the shape of a woman in a white dress.

3- Paranormal phenomenon involves intelligent and non-intelligent sources that might exist within another dimension that superimposes our own. In this model, Energy beings (spirits) in this other dimension can occasionally interact with our dimension in a variety of different ways.. Sometimes they can even move physical objects in our dimension and manipulate electromagnetic energy in our dimension. But perhaps dark energy is their "purgatory". Maybe that energy gives them the ability to exist at all as some form of intelligence and also gives them a way to manipulate energy in our world even though they don't exist here as a physical being.

4- If dark energy is made up of the same energy paranormal phenomenon derives from, then dark energy itself might just be souls in pure form. In the case of our universe, it would not only be made up of souls of dead humans on earth but souls of dead beings throughout the known universe.. Ponder this for a moment..

Since we know that dark energy makes up the majority of the known universe, that number of souls would have to be enormous. If science could verify such a link exists between dark energy and the paranormal (which, honestly, probably won't ever happen anyway) then that would mean we live in a universe not only where life is abundant but ever-flourishing.

This is all hypothetical/speculative but it is interesting when you start seeing correlations like this between what we see in cosmology and what we see here on earth. Most people don't think to make such links. When I think about this kind of "paranormal dark energy" in a way it would make alot of sense. Especially when you consider advances in quantum physics and the fact that quantum physics seems to be directly linked to consciousness.. Some might even call it the collective consciousness or Chi.


This "paranormal dark energy" theory also seems to correllate with the theory of quantum entanglement.

-ChriS


[edit on 7-3-2009 by BlasteR]

I looked for a really good video/lecture on quantum entanglement because for alot of people it is pretty mind-numbing stuff..
Here is a really simple 5 minute video on how it works..



This next one is a Stanford University lecture on entanglement. It is pretty long (well over an hour) and it is the first of 9 lectures like it.. But this first one gives a good rundown of quantum entanglement. The others go into much more detail..



-ChriS

reply to post by MarrsAttax


There is also the Michio Kaku episode of ATS Mix. For anyone interested in space/cosmology/astronomy it is really interesting.

You can listen to the MP3 of this episode of ATS Mix by clicking HERE . If you would like to download the mp3 to your computer simply right click the link and "save target as".

You can find the discussion thread on this episode of ATS MIX HERE

They didn't ask Michio Kaku my questions (I didnt think they would because there were like a million questions people posted anyway) but the show was really interesting and went into discussion on quantum physics and the Large Hadron Collider. There were some things that Michio Kaku didn't talk about... I pointed that out in the ATS mix discussion thread I linked to above.

-ChriS

[edit on 7-3-2009 by BlasteR]

Found this interesting article on dark matter and time travel. It says that using dark matter energy one will be able to go back or forward in time and enter a pararell universe, and will cease to exist in his original universe

UFOs travel from one end of the Universe to the other and beyond very fast – much faster than light. How do they achieve this thousand times faster speed than light? This is the question that is bothering scientists fro a very long time. Finally, the facts are getting straight. Ninety percent of the Universe is composed of Dark Matter. In their efforts to find the missing 90% of the universe, particle physicists theorize the existence of tiny non-baryonic particles that are different from what we call "ordinary" matter. Smaller than atoms, Weakly Interactive Massive Particles (WIMP) are thought to have mass, but usually interact with baryonic matter gravitationally--they pass right through ordinary matter.

WIMPs create the necessary negative gravity and electromagnetic flux effect needed to attain speed thousand times faster than that of light.

Using WIMP acceleration, bending Space and Time is possible. Creation and maintain the mouth of wormhole is possible and traversing through the wormhole into the manipulated Time and Space zones is possible. Any advanced alien civilization are able to use these WIMPs, a special type of Dark Matter to generate the Dark Energy needed for fast propagation through bent Space and Time.

This also provides the insight into time travel. With WIMPs it is becoming clear we will be able to travel forward and backward in time

Source: Using Dark Matter to enable speed faster than light

it seems to me that the universe recycles, black holes take in energy quasars let it out energy is transferred via wormholes and exists as dark energy and cosmic background radiation. but who knows, fun to theorize