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Why are believers looked down upon?

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posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 02:06 AM
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reply to post by RFBurns
 


That's kinda my point.

UFO skeptics don't try to 'convert' believers to their way of thinking.

They may call them names, yes, and belittle them in the media, but they don't hate them for having different beliefs. They just don't agree.

Believers tend to have the mindset that everyone else are sheep and blind etc etc. That is generally not the case. Some people just aren't interested in the topic and don't want to get involved.

Trying to jam UFO 'proof' down peoples throats that don't want to hear it probably doesn't do the field any good. Let people find their own truths.

[edit on 6-3-2009 by fooffstarr]




posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 02:46 AM
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reply to post by fooffstarr
 


Well..perhaps you should read the STS 114 thread and take note of how two particular debunkers are so desperately trying to do just that..shove their explanations which have no relevance to the issue of the thread down everyone's throats in there.

But of course, thats just two bad apples out of the bunch of debunkers. Ive had very good discussions with debunkers, including here at ATS and to date, only two have taken it to the point of desperation to divert attention away from the subject to defocus the flow of the discussion and resort to personal attack.

Sad..isnt it.

But it does happen, and there is evidence right here at ATS that shows there are those few who try to shove it down our throats.



Cheers!!!!



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 03:33 AM
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The way I see it is.. When speaking of 'believers' concerning UFOs and extraterrestrials.. there are two types;

1- The kind that just 'need to believe' or 'want to believe', and these people have probably never had a sighting, know nothing of the subject in terms of research, and just want to be magically saved by the 'gods' from outer space. And of course, they would be extra gullible to the many hoaxers and sensationalists in this field whom prey on the weak and naive.

Naturally, these people are looked down upon, and pitied by skeptics and the other type of believer alike. Sad and unfortunate to say, that there are far too many 'type 1's out there; whom really ruin it for the 'type 2's.

2- The kind that may or may not have had direct sighting, experience, or encounter. But have all researched the subject thoroughly enough to deduce a more than likely conclusion that we aren't alone in the universe (for one), and that we have more than likely been visited and are being visited by people or beings from outer space or another dimension. The evidence, accounts, and witness testimony is overwhelming. There is no 'need to believe' in this type, rather; a more gnostic approach is the tendency.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 03:41 AM
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reply to post by Majorion
 


Intelligent and articulate post Majorion! Very true mate!

IRM



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 03:48 AM
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I've found that I can have this discussion with someone multiple times and it's almost like they choose to forget. You can in a very clear way show the evidence and you will 'win' the argument. Then a month down the road it's like that conversation didn't happen and you have to start at the beginning again.

I've noticed this not just with aliens, but any topic not widely believed or understood. As an example I've explained how what you experience and what is the 'real' are not the same thing to the same people multiple times to the point where they get it but then forget about it.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 03:51 AM
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reply to post by RFBurns
 


True.

There are bad apples in every bunch.

Although vastly different in size and importance, you can compare UFO believers with established religion (namely in this case Islam and Christianity).

You have the vast, vast majority as normal people who only want to learn more about their 'faith', weed the liars and charlatans out from the real truth and generally learn more about themselves, their beliefs and their world.

Then you have the extreme edges of the beliefs, who give the rest of them a bad name.

In Islam you have your extremists who commit horrible crimes in the name of their religion.

In Christianity we have had things such as Waco, and child sexual abuse by clergy in the Catholic church etc etc.

In UFOlogy we have the crackpots, one of which can kill any credibility in an interesting case, and hoaxers, who muddy the water to such an extent as to make the rest of the world believe we are all crazy.

A horrible generalization and comparison, i'm sure, but you get the idea.

It is the same with 'debunkers' / skeptics / non-believers. Whatever you want to call them.

Most are genuinely open minded and only want to find out the truth, regardless of it fitting with their established beliefs or not. Many a skeptic has been turned believer by their own research.

But then you have the ones who refuse to look at the evidence, or simply say 'swamp gas' about things that are clearly intelligently controlled. Some even run smear campaigns to discredit the real evidence available, like as you mentioned, the STS footage.

What I'm saying is that judging a whole group by the actions of a single member is never a good idea.

I was a skeptic when I came to ATS, I am no longer. But If I judged you all by the first topic I ever saw, which was about channeling aliens from Zeta Reticuli through your computer headphones, I'd probably never have become a member.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 03:52 AM
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The OP asks a good question.

The reason why people do laugh and look down at UFO believers is because they truly believe there's nothing out there. They don't know.
They haven't sat down like we have and analyzed the information. Why? because they have better things to do and worry about. It takes a little conditioning to fully comprehend what is being said and the reality of it all , which sadly is too much for some people.
We all were at one stage or another non-believers.

It wasn't easy for me to jump boat and admit this is all real. It took a while to convince me , and it was my own personal journey.. i don't know how i would of felt being pushed into this subject.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 03:56 AM
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Originally posted by misswanderer31
A lot of people deep down are afraid of the unknown. They don't want to know, I agree with the poster above me.

MW31




You have taken the words right out my mouth


S&F



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 04:12 AM
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Over the years, I've found that it's rarely an actual belief (in anything) that draws negative responses, it's how that belief is actually expressed.

One can believe in the most far out ideas and people will generally be either bemused or amused by your thoughts. However, if one is either insistent, evangelical or raises the issue at inappropriate times, it's only then that it begins to draw genuine negativity.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 04:21 AM
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Originally posted by fooffstarr
I was a skeptic when I came to ATS, I am no longer.


Yes I started out a skeptic as well, but haven't we all?

The ones whom really amaze me, are those who demand all the evidence in the world, and then quickly attempt to do nothing except discredit every piece of evidence shown.

And don't get me wrong, critical thinking and observation should be encouraged. But where does the line get drawn? and what is the definition of a skeptic?

as I mentioned earlier, there are two types of believers. But there are also two types of skeptics in my opinion;

The typical skeptic, and the pseudoskeptic;

en.wikipedia.org...


The term pseudoskepticism (or pseudo-skepticism) denotes thinking that appears to be skeptical but is not. The term is most commonly encountered in the form popularised by Marcello Truzzi, through his Journal of Scientific Exploration, where he defined pseudoskeptics as those who take "the negative rather than an agnostic position but still call themselves 'skeptics'"[1] [2].



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 05:15 AM
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There is much that can be said about this.

For example, i see many similarities between those who see a blinking dot in the sky and state that it IS an alien spacecraft and those who see the Virgin Mary on rocks, Trees and clouds: it's more or less the same form of Hysteria.

And in the other side, there are those who state that it was a plane, no wait: venus. no, wait: riegel. No wait: it was anything but an alien spacecraft because it could NOT be one: those fall into the same basket, because that's another form of being blind: blind accepting VS. blind reject.

The differences between the two is that while the first ones are pushed by some enthusiastic will to believe, the second ones are pushed by FEAR: fear for the unkown, fear to look foolish, fear to don't look cool enough: they will always tell you that the reason is absence of proofs, but that's not the truth.


Regarding these two groups, i sypathize with the first one, without doubts: but neither the first nor the second have many chances to contribute in moving some serious steps towards the truth.
Another, completely different scenario, is the one in which you have:

those who learn about something that has been witnessed, or documented, or tracked by radars, or covered by media or all this stuff alltogether, and which general features were NOT consistent with anything mundane, or celestial body etc. and state that it's an interesting sighting, and that some alien spacecraft cannot be ruled out.
Those are believers as well, but they want to touch the truth with their own hands: it is THIS type of believers that we need, because they add anyway to the research, no matter if this or that case turns out to be some misinterpretation, or some hoax AFTER serious investigations.

In the other side, we have those who, after looking at a footage, reading its description, reading the related reports say: "in my opinion it was a plane because i see clearly a red, a white and a green light, its motion is regular and everything is consistent with a plane". That would be a serious opinion, and those are the type of skeptics that we need as well, no matter if his opinion turns out to be wrong: it's the CONSTRUCTION that does matter.

After the above four, there would be many categories more, but what i'd like to say is that CURIOSITY is the keyword: be curious and you will be pushed to find out more. And in order to find out more you must to research: and in order to research you must study and after studing you wil get more trained and more able to distinguish between a joke and some serious UFO case: and when somone looks at you down upon, stop him and ask him the why. Maybe he will walk away without saying a word, but maybe he will tell you something in some fair way, about your behavior, or about your approach to the subject matter, or just about the way you express your beliefs; and maybe what he will say will be helpful to you, and will force you to improve yourself.
Thanks for the nice OP and for some GREAT contributions



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by InfaRedMan

You have free will. This is the way you choose to feel! No one's make you do or feel anything! Sorry old chap, that's just a classic victim complex!


IRM


[edit on 6/3/09 by InfaRedMan]



Oh I agree-I'm neither impressed nor depressed by the aliens. They just "are". They're no different than a rock, bear, or keyboard...they exist in my existence--and I in their's, but as far as I know neither one of us is stealing the other's free will. Abducted individuals may feel quite different.

Many people do make you feel things...we are manipulated daily by friends, co-workers, advertisements, lovers, the media, religions, and many other social institutions. We all play along to make sure we are loved, safe, fed, and feel worthy.

The part that's nice (and I agree with you) is that this subject right here proves we can break out of it...you can think and I can think for ourselves "freely". But we are "breaking the rules"--society doesn't want us to think for ourselves. If we believe in aliens then we are telling society we have found a new "power", one that may make you and me better than those who think they've got it right already. It threatens their ego.

Of course as fooffstarr says...some people just don't give a "beep" about aliens. They haven't seen one, there's no proof, there's no conspiracy, there is nothing to get out of it. It just boils down to one big thought experiment.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 12:16 PM
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reply to post by DJones
 


Ha...no kidding. I've talked to friends about aliens and even the weirdness of quantum theory. 90% of them just kind of go with the flow and then think of where to get a bite to eat next or how beautiful some woman was that just walked by, or for women--"oh I've got to meet so and so for coffee". I'm far from a nerdy guy, and can talk sports all day, but it's amazing how disinterested some people are in the reality they live in. Crazy humans...lol.

I guess it's like eating a rich desert, some people just don't like the explosion of new sensations, they like it light and familiar.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by bobbylove321
 


Don't forget just plain "Ego"!
The certainty of knowing it all!
Even about what happens for sure when we die!


[edit on 6-3-2009 by dodadoom]



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 12:29 PM
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"Why are believers looked down upon?"

On another thread awhile back, somebody asked the exact same question, in reverse:

"Why do believers look down on skeptics?"

I think we should seperate the two groups until they can learn to play 'nice.'

People who have had the sure experience of alien existence have an almost perceptible tendency to 'pose as superior' to those who haven't.
It's like being a member of a group who has proprietary knowledge: they can often be found to hold an 'air' of superiority about them, especially when dealing with wannabes.

And skeptics really hate those kind.

So, it goes both ways.

[edit on 6-3-2009 by SS,Naga]



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by DJones
 

LOL
It is like a virus.
The truth has to be packaged and repeated continuously to
the masses like a bad oil company commercial trying to
tout abundant, clean energy for all americans, all the while
generating obscene profits for a select few!
This all gets horrifically funnier by the hour! LOL OMG LOL!



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 12:43 PM
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reply to post by SS,Naga
 


The bad thing with all that is the skeptics then sometimes
get taken out by the very thing they thought would never
happen to them, then the believers have no one around
to say, "see I told you so" so there!!

So everyone is screwed because we cant make up our
mind collectively without fighting and killing.
Like these threads that always get repeated, pushed
aside for something better but never solve anything.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 12:47 PM
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reply to post by dodadoom
 


Very true! On another site, I made that exact observation, and was quickly put down for being a party-pooper.

More 'poop,' they demanded. Same here.

You are right, it's very funny...



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by SuperSlovak
It seems to have always been this way... if you believe aliens most people would call you crazy and tell you to get mental help!


Are you talking about on a forum like this or in real life(offline)?

If it`s on a forum like this, then you have to expect it.
There are 2 sides, not counting the people on the fence. Everyone has their own beliefs and opinions, and some are more fanatical or obsessive than others.
If one lets people on a forum get them down, then maybe they need to distuinguish the difference between cyberspace, and realspace.
Unfortunately, because of anoniminity online, people have the luxury of saying just about anything they want.

If it`s in real life, then maybe you`re not choosing the right people or right time to talk to about the subject.
Infact, I rarely ever bring up the subject of UFO`s offline. I`ve found that while some people may believe, they may not even care about it enough to have semi serious discussion about it without the subject changing because it may not be as exciting as other subjects. And there`s nothing wrong with that.
Everyone has different priorities and for most offline, the subject of UFOs just is`nt that important as it is to some.
Thats why I come to places like this when I want to discuss it .

Sometimes, some people forget that there is life outside of a message board, and maybe other people just aren`t as excited about the subject as we are.


What`s with the attitude?Why not just accept that maybe in a galaxy with a billion planets we might not be alone?

Try reversing the question.
What`s with the attitude? Why not just accept that maybe even in a galaxy with a billion planets, we just might be alone?
Would you just accept it? I thought not.
Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions.

On another note, If I saw someone being as fanatical and obsessed about it like some people (both sides) offline, then I myself would think they`re crazy and keep my distance.




[edit on 6-3-2009 by johnjohn808]



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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I work for a Law firm so I am well versed in the term Evidence.

Here's the problem with evidence.

A man goes home one night sits down for dinner and for one reason or another he gets mad at his wife and kills her. A huge investigation takes place and brings back no solid evidence. Does it mean that it never happened?

#2

NASA launches a manned mission to mars finally, finds that just under the surface life is just as abundant as here on earth. They come back and make this official statement. "After a long journey we have discovered many things about blah blah blah but we are still alone in the universe." Does that mean its true?

Lack of evidence does not mean something did not happen.

[edit on 6-3-2009 by DaMod]



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