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Jesus was Not special....

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posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by liesnomore
Jesus was not a real person. All characters in Bible are fictional. Go to http:..www.liesnomore.net and get out of Matrix.


Jesus was indeed real. However no more special than you and I.




posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12

Finally, Julius Caesar declared himself as a GOD and had a son named Caesarion who was hailed King of Kings and Lord of Lords. So, how do you know that you are not worshipping this man? He did in fact come around the same time as Jesus Christ. While humanity has been around long before that. So that would make his father Julius Caesar the great architect of the Universe? LOL I think not.


People claim they are the messiah all the time. Every religion has their own sort of messiah in one way or another.

After reading other people answer in your thread, and then you having some sort of snide comment in returen, maybe you can answer a few questions.

What is the puropose of your thread?

Why do you feel a need to debunk Jesus?

Nobody is telling you to believe anything you don't want to, so why do you feel a need to deprive believers in Jesus, the right to do so?

In other words, what's your agenda?



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Originally posted by 12.21.12
Sorry, but virgin births are impossible. That is unless of course he was born of a hermaphrodite. Faith? Yeah lots of it.



It's all symbolic

The "virgin birth" is birth by the naive (optomistic?) Virgo. She is guided by Satan, her opposite (who is Pisces the Fish). The baby, then, is technically the "spawn of Satan."

The Little Mermaid has nothing on Virgo the Virgin


Yes it is all symbolic. When we worship the birth of Christ, (Christmas) we are really worshipping the rise of the sun from it's three days of rest or (death) and easter we supposedly celebrate Jesus ressurection when in fact we are celebrating spring. The bible is full of metaphors that give astrolgical events a face with a name.. The Bible was written that way to suit the needs of the Roman Empire. Nothing more, nothing less.

Jesus was indeed a mortal man and now mortal men are worshipping mortal men.



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


I just don't see the logic in it and I am trying to understand how something that is completely fabricated has completely lead humanity into the dark. That is all. If God is God then where do you find it in your hearts to call Jesus God and worship a mortal man as God?



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12

Jesus was indeed real. However no more special than you and I.


I suppose you can back this statement up, correct?

Can you kindly share with us, your reason for thinking this? Do you have some information you can share with us that would enlighten us all as to why this is what you believe?

I'm interested. Please, continue.



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 09:06 PM
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reply to post by Blanca Rose
 


Well he was special in the way of being the son of Julius Caesar and the last Pharoah of Egypt, but other than that he was not special at all. He just learned a few tricks here and there.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The rest ot the Bible is taken from various teachings most of it is astrolgical.



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12

Yes it is all symbolic. When we worship the birth of Christ, (Christmas) we are really worshipping the rise of the sun from it's three days of rest or (death) and easter we supposedly celebrate Jesus ressurection when in fact we are celebrating spring.


Who is we? I don't celebrate either of those as a holiday anyway. You are referring to Pagan holidays. Paganism pre-dates Christianity, and I believe what you mention, is a way to make Pagans feel more comfortable with accepting Jesus, or Christianity. Why don't you also throw in the Holy Trinity of Isis, Osiris, and Horus? That's where you seem to be .ing. How far back do you think the symbolism goes?


The bible is full of metaphors that give astrolgical events a face with a name.. The Bible was written that way to suit the needs of the Roman Empire. Nothing more, nothing less.


What Bible are you referring to? Which version? Do you mean Old Testament and New Testament combined?


Jesus was indeed a mortal man and now mortal men are worshipping mortal men.


Jesus was a common name at the time he supposedly lived. So, yes, there were indeed lots of people named Jesus who were mortal men.



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 09:20 PM
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In 325 CE the Council at Nicea indoctrinated the Trinity. Here is more that you can read on this. Some believe that this was an attempt to make Christianity more acceptable to Monotheists who were potential converts.

Here is the link..if you would like to read more.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by Blanca Rose
 





Who is we? I don't celebrate either of those as a holiday anyway. You are referring to Pagan holidays. Paganism pre-dates Christianity, and I believe what you mention, is a way to make Pagans feel more comfortable with accepting Jesus, or Christianity. Why don't you also throw in the Holy Trinity of Isis, Osiris, and Horus? That's where you seem to be .ing. How far back do you think the symbolism goes?


We is those of us who celebrate Christmas and Easter. I do celebrate. There is however no need to break out the nativity scene. That is not what we are celebrating.

Isis was a self proclaimed Virgin Goddess and the mother of Horus (Moses) Just as Cleaopatra also proclaimed herself to be Isis the virgin Goddess. Jesus is Egyptian for Esau means son of Isis. This symbolism goes way back. But just to be clear, the stuff in the old testament was written mainly by Moses and had the same religious teachings found in the Bible today.

The New Testament carried over traditions from Egypt and other religions by the hand of Julius Caesar.



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 09:48 PM
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All I can say is if you truly met him you would get it. You would totally understand how awesome he really is.



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by hardamber
 


Yeah, well I can't say that I have. I was raised christian though, only to find it was a load of bologney aimed at making me more and more detached from the truth that was inside of me all along because I was born with it.

Otherwise, if you have personally met with Jesus. I would like to see evidence. Thanks.



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 09:52 PM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 


Well I always find this subject interesting, because you know your are right.

God made man and woman in his image and in his image he made both.

So unless Jesus was a hermaphrodite then been him in the image of his father that happen to be both female and male as per Genesis accounts he would have to be with both sex.

Occurs this how I look at the subject.



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Well you ever wonder why the Freemasons G often associates woth both GOD and GEOMETRY? Take a look at my avatar. It had to start somewhere and the continuance is nothing more than a mathematical constant known as the Golden ratio. It is the driving force of creation, we are co-creators. Thats our grand architect right there, geometry.

[edit on 5-3-2009 by 12.21.12]



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 


Is many mysteries that actually the bible does hints to, but religion has change all that to follow one line way of thinking and banning any other ways of thinking from their own spiritual growth.

Is all about perspectives.



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 10:12 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Yes. A good example of that would be the 144,000 which was not exclusive to Christianity but also known about by other ancient cultures such as the Mayans.

The 144,000 is not 144,000 circumsized Jewish boys, it is what is often referred to Christ Consciescness. Knowledge that we are all one. Those who know the metaphors in the Bible would get the message clearly while others would find themselves completely lost. 144,000 is not limited to 144,000 it is just the minimum number of people that must come together to attain critical mass. It is also the desirable amount of people to reseed humanity.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 06:06 AM
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The virgin birth is misunderstood. Mary is not the virgin, and Jesus in the flesh is not born of a virgin. His flesh is born of Mary and Joseph, just as you are born of your 2 flesh parents.

The virgin birth is the birth of soul and consciousness, which comes only from the father. Jesus is someone who is "awake" to who and what he truly is. He is someone who understood the reason and importance of the commandments and how/why to follow them.

Jesus denies his mother is his mother, he only recognized the father. 1 parent, 1 virgin, 1 father. Jesus says you must be born anew, you must be born of the father, and that only that which is born of the father(soul/consciousness/spirit) will return to the father. This has actually already happened with you, the difference is you do not know it, you do not understand it, and that in itself is a world/perspective changing event when you actually do realize it, and it is like being born again, as the basis for all your reality will change with 1 simple piece of understanding.

Is Jesus god? No. He always makes the distinction between himself and the father. Always. He is a son of god, and this is true of all.



Psalms 82

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.


I can go into more detail of the father and son relationship if you'd like, I can explain how it works. I've done so before, so I figure many have already heard it.

The part of Mary being the virgin is done by the scribes who lack understanding and are trying to fulfill OT prophecy that they do not understand. The OT they are getting that from doesn't even actually mean "virgin" at all, it means "young woman". I personally look to the Jews for understanding of the OT, they will tell you these things. I'll quote a story I heard in a mp3 from one. The virgin birth is supposed to be a "sign from god", but examine this a bit.

There was this town outside Chicago, and they had a problem with their street signs getting blown over. This caused many problems in the town, and they feared that the sign may end up hurting someone, cause an accident and so forth. So they decide to have a town meeting to discuss how to fix the problem.

Many ideas were thrown around and the people argued and argued. Finally a little old lady in the back speaks up and says - If you want to fix the sign, then listen to me. And so everyone turns and looks at her, and she says "All you have to do is bury the signs in the ground, and then the wind will never bother them anymore, problem solved". And of course the people giggled.

Why did they giggle? It is true that the wind would never bother those signs again, and the problem would be solved. But a sign isn't really a sign if nobody can see it.

And so how can a virgin birth be a sign. That is nothing anyone can see or know, and something anyone can claim. I'm sure many mothers who got pregnant out of wedlock would love to make such a claim. Of course, nobody is going to believe it. It's not a sign.

Such things do not point to the divinity of Jesus. What points to the divinity of Jesus is what he does and says. The father is speaking through him, just as Jesus says. There is no doubt IMO that he is completely telling the truth in his words and understandings. He was right, and he was murdered for it because it threatened the powers of this world.

John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Everything that he says of himself is also true of you - should you come to understand as he did. In order to come to that understanding you must be born anew, born again, born of the virgin father yourself. Again this has already happened, but it's a matter of experiencing it and understanding for yourself, and no man on this earth can make that happen for you. The experience itself is in John 14.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

It mentions a specific time for a reason. "At that day". At this moment you will know this. You will not know it because it is written down in the bible, you will not know it because someone told you. You will know it because you experienced yourself. Dunking yourself in the water isn't going to give it to you or none of those traditions of men. Not to say it can't happen at such a time, just that it is not the act in itself which causes it. 2 people can do that same act and not get the same result. And someone who doesn't do the act at all can have the experience itself.

This experience is followed by the holy spirit in John 14:26, who will come and teach you.

And you don't have to be in the bible, you don't have to love Jesus, or follow Jesus to have such an experience. Jesus doesn't put such limits on the father, people do.



24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.


Of course, in my experience after it happens, then you will know and recognize the father in the words of Jesus and realize how and why he is telling the truth.

When you look at the "god is not real" crowd, I notice they always see themselves as being of the flesh only. That consciousness is just somehow a function of chemicals and electricity in the brain. That somehow, that feeling of "I AM" is able to come from such. They do not realize the 2 births, they are unable to separate the physical from the spirit.

If Jesus is special or not is a bit of a loaded question. He shouldn't be, but in this world he no doubt is. He shouldn't be because everything he gave, did and showed is available to all. Everything he said of himself is true of you, whats special is his wisdom and understanding, but again only because it is not common place on this earth and is suppressed.



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 06:46 AM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 



All i would like to add, is that since you and myself and another 7 billion plus human beings live in a 3 dimensional time line it does not mean that nothing outside those dimensions do not exist or manifest.
You must come to terms with yourself that you are as strong as your last breath. A simple but efficient example is a common cold one might contract. It can send you to either a hospital or at best at home with western or eastern type's of medicines to combat your ill health.
I would seriously sit back and think about how the human race can eject an idea which dates back even before the birth of Christ or relevant Chrit's depending on each persons individual beliefs.
There are entity's which we know nothing of, apart from religious and scientific data that has been made available to us throughout time.
Keep in mind that about 95% of the industrialized country's have achieved the unthinkable which was thought about and contemplated over 2.500 + years ago.
Its taken 2,500 + earth years to gather human beings into a predefined area within a continent and that they are dependent upon a group of people we now know is called a Government.
I am not against any social order, but just let this float through your mind, if you wanted to dominate a race, would you not have it enclosed into "cities" rather than having them spread across vast areas (Longitude, Latitude). You could(can) manipulate them (people living in cities) with what ever, how ever, when ever you choose to do so.
The most recent evidence which has gone by unnoticed was the birth of the Internet. Many people see this as an evolution of human ingenuity, you only need to research who (which company's/owner's/blood line) were directly involved with networking all of the human race, which would guarantee full monitoring in the forth coming years.(present time)..
Consider that this simple but most visible introduction of confining the human race has gone undetected and unchallenged and yet afew thousand are asking for disclosure on alien's and ufo's. (Thats the funny side of human's)
From birth to death you have been predefined as to what and how you are to serve the human race. You may cry free will and spirit, well, that has been influenced by your surroundings and educational qualifications which in turn are altered depending social and world needs.
You have Nation's which do not have running water, but are openly used as instruments of war, you have other nations which are used for experimental medicine testing, you have other nations which are used to serve mans sexual needs, you have nations which serve mans needs for materialistic objects and i guess by now you can see that the list goes on and on.
Simple experiment, if we as human beings wanted to excel into a new age of technology, would it not be rational to allow 3 consecutive generations from birth to death to only study and apply themselves to science. ? But this WILL not happen as it is NOT ALLOWED to happen.
So in closing the mere fact that people are asking about disclosure and if god exist's, well, i would say that only and only if they want you to know, then you will know, otherwise your still living in the dark ages.(metaphorically speaking).



posted on Mar, 10 2009 @ 10:28 AM
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He's part of the Christian trinity (The Father, The Son and the "Holy Spirit")


That's really the jist of it right there...

Jesus and God are synonymous per the Council of Nicea's ruling on the Holy Trinity issue, as far as Christians are concerned. However, I do agree that many downplay the trinity aspect, and focus on Jesus as an individual (largely Baptists).... One could even say Catholics focus more on Mary than God or Jesus....

There are different interpretations within all religions...not just Christianity...



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 12:29 AM
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No the NT did not carry over traditions from egypt, but condemned it's practices over and over. Just like paganism is condemned in the Nt.



The reality is that Jesus is God in the flesh, prophecied in the OT, said he was God in the NT all throughout it and he was God come to visit his people.


was he special?

ofcourse considering what I just said, but another fact is that he would tell you himself.

That he is nothing without his father and his nothign special because he came with full humility and as a servant but was God in phillipians.


So yea in a sense he is nothign special, but in reality he is the creator of the universe.

In our faith.


peace.



posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruth
The reality is that Jesus is God in the flesh, prophecied in the OT, said he was God in the NT all throughout it and he was God come to visit his people.


No he doesn't. He only ever quotes Psalms 82.

www.biblegateway.com...

In fact, he received a most unfair trial in John 10. All the things Jesus claims in this chapter is also true of me, and also true of you.



3The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.


Of note, he always mentions the father as being within him. He never claims to be the actual "father" himself, but that he is a son of the father and recognizes the father is within him.

As I mentioned, this is NOT only true of him, but of all.



Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?




Psalm 82

5They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course.

6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

7But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.


Also he says:



38But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.



As I said, this is also true of me, and of you, and of all.



John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.


Father and son relationship. I am a son of god. You are a son of god, and Jesus was a son of god. If you know it, then it's about time people started acting like it.



John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.


Again, he is NOT the father completely, but the father is in him, and he recognizes and knows the father, ans so the father speaks through him.



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