Iran is no Gaza , Isreal will lose

reply to post by Odessy


If your talking about 2005,no israel did not leave or hand over gaza.They still controlled the borders,airspace sea and also had a no go area on gaza farm land that stretched for 300M..which surprisingly expanded to 1km.Farmers were often shot at if they tried to go anywhere near THEIR own farm land.Not exactly leaving gaza now is it?


[edit on 7-3-2009 by Solomons]

Originally posted by Electricgypsy
Keep dreaming if Iran is hit by Israel they have U.S. backup Iran will be crushed just like Iraq and IMHO its way overdue we should have destroyed Iran when Reagan was elected!!!!

Don't forget that China has exclusive oil contracts with Iran. If the US gets involved with a war on Iran, China (the one giving the US all the money to keep from certain bankruptcy) would be forced to show the US just who is in charge here. It goes something like this.

1. Israel sends in Mousad to launch a rocket toward Israel from Iranian soil, this will hit the news media world wide instantaneously (because it was pre-planned).

2. Israel issues a public statement that, "We've taken enough of this abuse. We're going to react to this in our own time."

3. Iran will deny ever being involved. Footage will appear showing the missile debris and a very convenient piece will remain intact "Made in Iran", in Farsi.

4. Israel will call the US and let them know the date and time they are going to attack the nuclear sites in Iran, and some other targets, "just because". The US currently has three battle groups in the Persian Gulf, they will receive orders.

5. China will be told about this by Iran and China will tell the US that consequences will ensue should an attack occur.

6. The President (and more particularly, Rahn Emmanuel) will immediately break into laugher the minute the phone call finishes, not believing a word of it. China has yet to genuinely punish the US for anything.

7. The attack got off, Iran fires it's short range missiles on US targets in the Middle East as a result of US involvement. The US will take this as a declaration of war, and won't mention the fact that we fired on Iran first. Bases in Oman, Qatar, and Kuwait will be hit wit a barrage of missiles, overwhelming the sparse Patriot Missile batteries in the area. The bases will take heavy losses.

8. The long range missiles will be reserved for Israel. Iran isn't stupid. They know there are defenses in place in Israel. The first two volleys (approximately two minutes apart) will be dummy missiles for the purpose of using up all of the Patriot Missile systems in Israel, thus exposing it. The real barrage will occur in the fourth minute, with the real warheads. These must be airborne before the US carrier groups fire upon the locations.

9. China sees what's going down and will not allow a disruption in the oil they need so desperately. The US and Israel, will not even care about the disruption of oil, and will make the oil sites and infrastructure sites primary targets in Iran, thus cutting China off.

10. China has been strong armed time after time by the US. This is the last straw, they will no longer care about consequences, they will punish the US and deal with the aftermath later. They choose to unload all of their treasury debt, and swear publicly that they will not purchase any more US securities, in what is commonly known as a "Money Nuke". The US economy instantly crashes and the currency becomes worthless. All of the troops in the US military are instantly being paid with worthless currency. Their house payments (because most live off base), car payments, cable bills, everything will be instantly overwhelming. China simultaneously halts all exports to the US indefinitely.

11. China launches an ICBM volley into Israel, knowing full well that it was Israel all along that started this whole mess, and they must not be allowed to repeat it again. Israel falls in blinding white flashes. The rest of the Arab nations are put on notice that they had better not do anything untoward China.

12. The US economy is officially over. The entire US falls into complete disarray. China focuses on it's own people and bringing its own nation up in stature by investing heavily in themselves.

13. China flies into Iran and begins reconstruction efforts, building them up better than they were before.

Folks, that's just one scenario, but it had better chill your blood by a degree or two. This could very well be the way it all goes down. China has been pushed repeatedly by the US and is growing tired of it. If the US attacks Iran, I am confident that the US wouldn't survive economically. It would be immediate, and it would be total. Combining the halting of all exports to the US and flooding the markets with all of the US Treasuries would doom the US and everyone would suffer as a result.

The US needs to leave this one alone. Rahm Emmanuel needs to know when he's clearly outgunned.

reply to post by audas

I would add that after losing control of Iran after the revolution the US embarked upon a campaign of revenge via their proxy stooge in Iraq, a CIA trained operative names Saddam Hussien. This maniac was supplied weapons including chemical weapons to wage one of the most brutal wars ever seen. Despite vast amounts of evidence and repeated pleas to the UN and the world a blind eye was turned as America continued to deploy horrific chemical and biological weapons against the Iranians. The UN specifically acknowledged that their use contravened the Geneva convention and that their use was war crime and crime against humanity however turned a blind eye as Saddam continued its assault on Iran and the request of the US in return for assured power and on going support.

This is another of many examples of the bad blood that exists between the three countries regarding the abject disregard of things like sovereignty and human rights. Saddam Hussein indeed was compelled to attack Iran and initiate one of the longest and vilest wars the planet has ever seen.

Amazingly enough the United States could not/would not initially condemn the Ayatollah Khomeini when he was given safe passage from France back to Iran because he wasn’t a communist. That did not stop the CIA from wanting its pound of flesh over the Savak and the Shah though.

The starker reality is well stated Zionist manifestos have called for domination of the Middle East from the brooks of Egypt to the Mesopotamian Delta.

There are primarily two short term reasons for this. One being water. All dessert people need it and controlling the fresh supplies of it equate to true power in the region.

The second is while U.S. and Israeli propaganda is top notch and most citizens of both countries have been so indoctrinated by it that the politically correct line has become second nature to them, there exists still one terrible threat to its continued palpability.

The entire Middle East’s regions are a treasure trove of antiquities that shed a far more accurate and reflective light on the origins and machinations and wanderings of the Habiru/Hapiri aka Hebrews.

It’s neither mistake nor coincidence that the first thing to fall in Baghdad were its museums and many of it’s antiquities from the Babylonian days or Ur and before including many cuneiforms that detailed the status and doings of the Habiru/Hapiri disappeared. Antiquities in Iraq continue to be destroyed and stolen at an alarming rate.

Neighboring Jordan also saw its post second Israel King rise to power thanks to the CIA.

Slices of Egypt were taken and slices of Syria and Lebanon taken as well so Israeli archeologists could scour the areas with fine toothed combs to abscond with other tell tale antiquities.

Ultimately one of the primary goals is to destroy, secure and remove ancient records that because they are carved in stone are hard to discredit when it comes to perpetuating the propaganda about the trio of religions that sprang up in the dessert and just what role the Habiru/Hapiri actually played in the Biblical accounts that are often evoked to fuel the racism and bigotry that perpetuates these wars.

Most people would have a hard time understanding/believing inscriptions on rocks and in clay that are two thousand, three thousand, four thousand, five thousand years old would be worth spending billions of dollars and countless lives.

Most people don’t quite understand though that it’s not gold or water that equates to the highest form of power, but the most precious commodity of all, information.

Those who fail to learn the lessons of the past are condemned to repeat it, and for the despots, tyrants and sadists of the world the best way to ensure that condemnation is to make sure the lessons of the past are unavailable to those they wish to victimize and manipulate.

i really cant belive how anyone can make ironies and soccer like conversations on the developing situation w/ iran's nuclear capability and israel.

No matter what one belives of the war in iraq and all the rest, iran is a country where homosexuals get hanged in the middle of public squares from cranes, where apostasy is punished with death, where the basic rights are neglected by the state/religion itself, leaving the weak and different helpless.

I belive a country in which rights like divorce, the right to practice the religion you like, the sexual habits you want, and at the end a country where a religious council makes the laws, is plain and simple barbarian.

and btw, amadinejan will be thrown out of office at the next "elections" since a lot of people are sick and tired of the position his "administration" put the country in , w/ regards to international politics and the various extravagant enterprises he undertook ( ie: kidnapping of the british sailors and many others ).

I think whoever thinks israel or the us or the western world in general has much to learn from any of these countries, iran in particular, should go and visit, or live there ... ( and btw, there, these people, could not speak out the opposite opinion to the one they express here... )

reply to post by audas


Do you have any links to back up all of these claims?

It is easy to see why, during the height of the cold war the U.S. wouldn't want a socialist with ties the USSR taking over Iran, and would act to intervene. We can all theorize how Iran would have turned out as a nation if it had became socialistic, but in every circumstance, this has lead to dictatorship. In addition, exactly how much of a role the U.S. played in overthrowing this dictator is highly questionable.

For those who want to blame the U.S., all the blame should go to the CIA, but the reality is most likely very different, as well as how much choice the U.S. had in who was going to take power. The claim that because the U.S. worked behind the scenes to keep a socialist with Soviet ties from taking over Iran, the U.S. is responsible for the the actions of the Shaw and his cronies is ludicrous at that.

If the demise of the Shaw is the direct result of Jimmy Carter pulling back on CIA support of the Shaw, then Carter's reward for this action, the taking of the hostages at the U.S. embassy in Iran, directly resulted in Carter losing the 1980 election, and Reagan and Bush I taking over the U.S. executive branch. Exactly whose interests were the hostage takers serving?

There is also the argument that the Shaw of Iran was turning Iran into a super power, and a therefore a threat to Western domination of the Middle East. That Iran was a up and coming nation when the Shaw was deposed, by the CIA. Both of these theories can not be true. How about a more realistic look at the situation.

www.fsmitha.com...

From 1963 and into the seventies, the Shah struggled to modernize Iran - with help from the U.S., where foreign policy strategists saw him as a stabilizing force in the Middle East and appreciated his acceptance of the existence of Israel. With help from the United States, Iran laid plans for a proliferation of atomic power plants, and the new economic development included the introduction of new fertilizers and pesticides. Between 1963 and 1967 Iran's economy rose dramatically. Oil production boomed, producing an abundance of cash for Iran. Steel mills rose from 1,902 in 1963 to 7,989 in 1977. There were also new oil refineries, aluminum smelters, machine tool factories and new tractors, trucks and automobiles. Public education improved dramatically, as did public health services. The number of doctors increased three-fold and the number of hospital beds doubled.

But the stigma of the bloody repression in 1963 remained, and the Shah continued his repression against clerics hostile to his modernization. In 1966 he established book censorship, with police agents raiding mosque libraries. In 1967 new laws gave women the right to apply for divorce without the husband's permission, a man had to secure his wife's consent before taking a second wife, and legal matters involving families were transferred from religious to secular courts.

Then there is the argument that because Hussain once worked for the CIA, the CIA is responsible for his actions for the rest of his life. Once again, this is a ludicrous proposition.

All of these distortions of history only work to support those who think terrorism is an acceptable form of warfare, and that the U.S. is responsible for all the worlds problems, none of which is ever backed by reliable sources.

reply to post by bpg131313


China's economy is so intertwined with the U.S. and dependent on the U.S., China will never support Iran over the U.S., oil agreement do not over ride these ties. China's economy is far more dependent on the U.S., and the U.S. economy does not depend on China at all. China only succeeds in pushing U.S. workers wages down. Can you grasp the implications?

reply to post by shasa

No matter what one belives of the war in iraq and all the rest, iran is a country where homosexuals get hanged in the middle of public squares from cranes, where apostasy is punished with death, where the basic rights are neglected by the state/religion itself, leaving the weak and different helpless.

No doubt about it, Iran is not the country for me! Yet, Iran is not an Iron Curtain Nation. People are free to emigrate from it. There is by the way a sizable Jewish and Christian community inside of Iran allowed to worship in freedom and openly. They aren’t allowed to disrespect the Prophet of the State Religion though. Neoconservatives would and do decry homosexuality with one breath and then condemn the persecution of them in another country when it suits their political goals. The U.S. founding fathers though did not envision our nation as fulfilling some G-d destined role to be the world’s policeman or morality compass. Was it because we do such a miserable job at it when we endeavor to do so, or was it because they had the wisdom to understand after witnessing the Catholic Church attempt to fulfill that role in their life times that they understood anyone attempting to do so would do a terrible job at it and simply come off as hypocrites and eventually scorned for the endeavor? My money is on number two but number one works for me too.

I belive a country in which rights like divorce, the right to practice the religion you like, the sexual habits you want, and at the end a country where a religious council makes the laws, is plain and simple barbarian.

The Islamic world has long allowed a woman the right to choose a divorce. In fact long before the western world. It also enables and ensures that any independent wealth a woman brings into a marriage or earns within a marriage his hers and hers alone. I too am against theocracy as were the founding fathers who took great pains to found the nation under ‘nature’s’ G-d, but that state and church would be separate and no religious test would be required to hold elected office. The treaty of Tripoli written by President John Adams and passed easily by the majority of Congress without hesitation clearly stated “We are by no means a Christian nation and have no qualms with entering into or ensuring treaties with Muslims.”

Yet the Christian right and left in the United States has worked constantly to erode that separation and to elect candidates who they imagine will legislate Christian values in a nation where under G-d didn’t start sprouting up until the Civil War and didn’t take root to grow to it’s present day distortions until the McCarthy years. That Zionists both Jewish and Christian also have leaned towards making our constitutional republic and borderline socialist/theocracy to legitimize and ensure support for Israel is hardly secret too.

I live in the United States too and no, I can’t be hung for engaging in homosexual acts unless that’s my particular fetish, but I sure can be persecuted for smoking the wrong plant or decrying the actions of an individual religion or member of it. Capital punishment by the way is a thriving industry in most states.

In short the United States has enough problems of it’s own without taking on or worrying about Israel’s or Iran’s.

I can’t imagine why any country would dislike us for remaining neutral and not taking sides or judging others. That is unless a country wanted to subvert our own for their purposes.

I don’t think we should take sides in other countries affairs, and I especially don’t think we should foot the bill for the positions other countries take either.

Neither did our founding fathers, who also didn’t believe we should have a central bank to pay for such foolishness or go into debt for such foolishness or to control our economy through foreign and domestic manipulation.

It’s apparently a novel concept in our pseudo theocracy but I truly believe we have more pressing issues that actually affect the citizenry of this country in far more tangible and urgent ways than Iran might be…

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by bpg131313

 

China's economy is so intertwined with the U.S. and dependent on the U.S., China will never support Iran over the U.S., oil agreement do not over ride these ties. China's economy is far more dependent on the U.S., and the U.S. economy does not depend on China at all. China only succeeds in pushing U.S. workers wages down. Can you grasp the implications?

Oh, I can grasp the implications. I'm just looking at the long term picture. The Chinese economy doesn't matter in the short term. Remember, they aren't the ones in debt. We are. They are doing just fine. What would stop them from collapsing the US dollar, thereby making the Chinese Yuan extremely valuable? That would make the entire US a "Dollar Store" where they could come in and buy up pretty much everything they wanted, therefore securing the farms and crops for their own people, rather than Americans.

Once the Chinese own all of the land they want here in the US, they'll consider sending goods to Americans again just so the Americans can go further in debt to them. Essentially, the Chinese have already looted America of its wealth. They've done a splendid job of it. They are rich, we're broke. If Iran is attacked, I assure you, China will defend its interests, and one of its interests is making America as cheap as possible for land acquisitions. China can very easily weather the storm that follows. We here in America would be entirely screwed, and they know it.

Regarding your comment that America doesn't depend on China at all, I believe that comment might be inaccurate. Everything in America is made in China. What will America have when China stops all shipments? America will have the few things still made here in America with no factories able to spin up quickly to handle demand. There goes the economy. You take the amount of things here made in China, and the amount of things there made in the US, and see how even that is. It's entirely lopsided. The US would completely lose it's @$$ in this deal, and China knows it.

Well, Iran has been at war with the region of Iraq for many years regardless of the threats and rumours of war today. There will always be an on going war in that part of the world because the Sunni's and Shiit's hate each other and have their own ideologies and that is just Islam verses Islam.

en.wikipedia.org...

Although the Iran–Iraq War from 1980–1988 was a war for dominance of the Persian Gulf region, the roots of the war go back many centuries. There has been rivalry between kingdoms of Assyria (the Fertile Crescent valley, modern Syria) and the rugged highlands to the East (Persia or modern Iran) since the beginning of recorded history in Sumer.
Text

With more than 100,000 Iranian victims of Iraq's chemical weapons during the eight-year war, Iran is one of the countries most severely afflicted by "weapons of mass destruction".[59]

The official estimate does not include the civilian population contaminated in bordering towns or the children and relatives of veterans, many of whom have developed blood, lung and skin complications, according to the Organization for Veterans of Iran. According to a 2002 article in the Star-Ledger:

Text

This BCC documentry says that Iraian soldiers chant death to America, and the English speaking lot here say they are peaceful and all that and how its not related to things in translation. If anyone can translate the chants in the video so at least I know its not fake propaganda, even a slight possiblity if they are say what they are saying.
To me it seems Iran want peace when it suites them and behind closed doors its kill the infedel attitude. Of course people say they want peace and we get it wrong but that is when the international community is precent but leaked Iranian videos that are not of international deplomacy says otherwise and you can not trust this Jackle and Hide personality from Iran and that is what people are worried about.





[edit on 7-3-2009 by The time lord]

reply to post by bpg131313


China's wealth is in dollars. If China collapses the U.S. dollar, which it does not have the ability to do, than China's wealth in U.S. dollars disappears. You might also want to consider how many other nations hold their wealth in U.S. dollars, and how many enemies China would created by an attempt at such an action. While China produces vast amounts of cheap junk, the U.S. still out produces China by a huge margin, of the highest quality, highest tech goods goods.

The people of China can't even afford to buy the goods they produce, what makes you think they could afford to buy all the food produced by the U.S.. How do you expect China to buy U.S. land with worthless dollars? Just a matter of a simple change in policy, and Fed Res notes would no longer be the legal tender of the U.S.. Newly issued U.S. treasury notes could then be issued at what ever exchange rate we choose to establish. This would serve China right for their ones sided trade policies which fixes trade in their favor, and their wide spread rip off of U.S. property rights.

China will not come to the rescue of Iran, their economic position is far too delicate. Economically and Militarily, China is still a small force compared to the U.S..

Now give these people Nuclear Energy and Long Rang Misiles because its all for peace and when they do speak to the world its all peace talks and when they do things their way at home its all war. So America and Isreal sit back or they learn that in the Qur'an that deciet in war is acceptable to win a battle as long as Islam takes hold. Then you add Iran's ideology with their actions and see if that has anything in common.

reply to post by Electricgypsy


Obama will not defend Isreal if they attack Iran. If Iran atatcks Isreal we will be glad to help, but Obama will not enter into another offensive attack based on intelligence.

Well in the whole win/lose area I think both countries will lose. In that part of the world the vast majority of the population is in big cities, so just a few nukes with devastate either country.

reply to post by The time lord


Yep, that video clearly explains their intentions. Those who want to pretend otherwise are only part of the problem. This is pretty clear.

Looking back at the Planet of the Apes movie there is that symbolic nature it has on man's self destruction, everyone fears modern warfare as such and they did back in the 60s and once again 40years later its heating up again.

Originally posted by branty

Iran does not want war with Isreal ,or any country for that matter, but they see what has occured in Iraq and now Afgan.

If you were in a country like Iran and seen the propaganda machines at work , you would be preparing to defend yourself as well. Iran was helping Hamas because they are the only country that sees the truth going on there , Isreal is a Imperilist country seeking only to obtain Gaza as its own.

Make no mistake, if called upon Iran will defend itself and this offensive by Isreal will not be a slaughtering of undefended this time, Iran will crush Isreal and I hope they do.

This video of Pres of Iran shows his intentions, not the edited versions US msm have propaganded.

Do let another 1.3 million people die for a lie. Nice vid , 3 min on shows his meaning.

Does he not look like a middle east version of president Bush????

I would find it totally believable that that are related some where down the line. As with most world leaders or people high up in world politics.

reply to post by LucidDreamer85


I agree he does look like a member of the bush family, makes you wonder about who is running the show out there.

So G W Bush is related to Obama - Fact

G W Bush looks a bit like Ahmadinejad

Bin laden looks a bit like Obama

So its probably in the genes what ever is going on.












[edit on 9-3-2009 by The time lord]

What so many people overlook is that by participating in the Iran hostage Crisis, Amajidan helped bring the Bush family to power. Who know, he may have been the one negotiating with GH for the arms for hostages deal.

The Bush family is definitely close to the Bin Laden family, even if they aren't related, GW and Osama probably played together as children.

Originally posted by Jinni
WOW!

Ahmedinejad doesn't sound like any politician I know!

He really seems like an honest person asking for nothing but for the PEOPLE of the world to untie. Regardless of colour, religion, nationality or whatever.

Compare that with the mindless saber rattling perpetuated by the UK and US political fronts.

Awesome!

Now I know why we NEVER hear\understand his speeches on mainstream media!

Thanks for posting.

P.S. Seriously...again another misleading thread title though...

[edit on 5-3-2009 by Jinni]

Yes, I have liked this man ever since I had heard my first 'un-filtered' speach. Reminds me of Dr. Paul... I just hope they both mean what they say. When something sounds too good to be true, it usually is. Not always though.