Is Obama Bringing Too Much Religion into the White House?

Is Obama Bringing Too Much Religion into the White House?

www.alternet.org

Since taking office, President Barack Obama has raised eyebrows by mixing faith and politics in a way that has dismayed some of his secular supporters.

The Advisory Council on Faith-Based and neighborhood Partnerships was founded via executive order on Feb 5 to be a new office of the executive branch.

Caroline Fredrickson, . . . described Obama as "heading into uncharted and dangerous waters".

(visit the link for the full news article)

Is our new president conspiring to break with a tradition of seperation of church & state? Or just keeping a promise to support Faith-Based organizations whose goals are to help their communities?

Is adding a little Godliness to the nation so terrible, in comparison to all the dirty deeds done by Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfield while they were running the show?

I pray your replies will enlighten me.

www.alternet.org
(visit the link for the full news article)

Originally posted by FRIGHTENER

Is adding a little Godliness to the nation so terrible, in comparison to all the dirty deeds done by Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfield while they were running the show?

didn't bush say he spoke to god every day and that god was telling him he should go after the "terrists"?

obama is probably just assuring america that he isn't a muslim, really he's not.

the name of the council is disturbing by itself. it could just as correctly be called an advisory council on free association. is the word "faith" in there for distraction purposes?

Surely he could do that, and probably endear himself to fat, white, lower-middle-class white guys by posing with a beer and bacon sandwich?

Even as an atheist, I can see that religious-based organizations do a great job in helping the people in need in this country. There's nothing inherently wrong with faith-based initiatives, as long as they do not infringe on people's right to practice religion, do not make laws establishing a national religion and/or proselytize or otherwise try to convert either the helpers or the people they are helping. I actually support faith-based charities just as I would any other charities. Keeping it separate from the dogma is the key. And very possible.

As regards prayers, I don't care if people practice their religion, as long as any religion as well as atheism can be represented. Obama is the first president to mention non-believers in his Inaugural speech. (Source) This is what the religion specifications in the First Amendment are all about, IMO. Not quashing all religion, but equal treatment, expression, acceptance and access to representation of all beliefs.

When Obama starts a war or makes other policy decisions because "God spoke to him and told him to", then I will absolutely change my mind and come down on him HARD. But as long as he understands and supports the true spirit of first amendment (which he obviously does), then he has the right to express his personal religious beliefs (or non-beliefs), just like the rest of us.

Religion has been disparaged in recent years because people either don't understand the First Amendment or they misinterpret the "wall between church and state" idea, thinking that there's no place in government buildings for the practice or indication that religion exists. I used to think this as well, until I studied it more. In actuality, there's nothing wrong with having a religious item in a government building, as long as other religions and beliefs have equal opportunity to place their religious (or non-religious) items or articles there. The problem has been that one religion (Christianity) has historically been the only one permitted, and naturally, that causes problems for people of other religions and beliefs, who are not permitted to display their articles of faith or non-belief.

So, Obama being open and welcoming to all beliefs and non-beliefs is, to me, a very Good Thing. Religion serves an important purpose in many people's lives and faith-based organizations do a LOT of good for the people in need in this country. And the more we can accept and embrace that idea, the more we will stand together as a country, regardless of our individual religious beliefs.

reply to post by FRIGHTENER

Is Obama Bringing Too Much Religion into the White House?

Any amount of religion is too much religion, as there is no evidence proving the existence of the jesusgod, then clearly the president is by definition suffering from delusion if he has any form of relationship with this supernatural being.


At the end of the day if a Judge or Doctor, claimed to communicate with a ghost or an alien just because he believes their real,
COULD YOU HONESTLY TRUST HIS JUDGMENT ?

Dear me, is there no end to human stupidity ?

Originally posted by pieman
didn't bush say he spoke to god every day and that god was telling him he should go after the "terrists"?

Yeah, but that cracked me up. Star!
He's leaning and sounding Christian...for now...we'll see though.

Maybe 'Faith' will distract some, good question. It didn't with dubya, did it?

Thou shall receiveth one Star, B. H.!
I'm Sooo glad to have you here, thanks for visiting my humble thread.
Ya know, I'm worried about your soul, though,,, just kiddin!

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Even as an atheist, I can see that religious-based organizations do a great job in helping the people in need in this country.

This is very true. You've stated you don't believe in the, um, you-know-who; but let me tell you a quick story...I was approached by a recently paroled member of my, um, you know; and he asked: "Can you tell me how or where to get in touch with someone about clothes, I've been wearing these all week, and have no money?"
I responded: "Absolutely, I'm one of them; I'll set you up first thing in the morning"... and I did, with a couple bags of both Thrift Store, and Wal-Mart clearance duds, along with help from other members.
He was overjoyed! (And stylin'). He gave tears, hugs, and prayers and blessings to me. Anyway, about a week later, MY water pipe froze (during that brutal, 30 below zero wind-chill we suffered Jan 15).
A couple days later, (in desperate need of a shower) I asked another member: "Hey, do you know any plumbers here?"
He replied: "I've been a plumber all my life, what's the problem?" . . .After I staggered for a second, I told him, and he came over that day, and fixed it.
He already knew about me and another member helping the parolee, and said he was impressed that a white man (me) helped a black man (the parolee), and was moved by my kindness to a total stranger, who was new to us, and was inspired, and more than glad to help me for nothing.

I don't expect you to change your beliefs, B.H., after this one story, but the old saying: "God works in mysterious ways" certainly applies here, in my op.

I don't care if people practice their religion, as long as any religion as well as atheism can be represented. Obama is the first president to mention non-believers in his Inaugural speech.

Amen to that! A miracle for BOTH of us then, huh? (Nice link, btw)

When Obama starts a war or makes other policy decisions because "God spoke to him and told him to", then I will absolutely change my mind and come down on him HARD.

Understandable, and fair enough. At which point we'd be obligated to "resurrect" this thread, eh?

Nice conversing with a higher than usual intelligent person as you. Happy we can exchange beliefs without arguing with eachother, or preaching to one another, or heating up in any way.

He is heading the path of trying to appeased the part of the population that were in the religious groups that gave him the vote.

But sad that the group that did it was in the Southern Baptist groups.

I don't agree with any religion within government but trying to put a front of religion to keep the population with hopes and faith in his presidency is misleading and well planned.

For the first time since Obama took the presidential seat I am starting to get very worry about what he is been doing.

Until now I had not clue that he open an office by executive order.

Obama is starting to look like he will be the President to push socialism and the biggest government in the history of this nation with all the plans he is supporting in the name of creating jobs for America.

I am very, very disappointed and very worry.

reply to post by FRIGHTENER


Well, thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

Your story is wonderful and a perfect example of the true compassionate and giving spirit. Just as an aside, I went to the post office a few weeks ago only to discover that it was on a Monday holiday and I had completely forgotten that it would be closed. Outside, there was a man looking for work. I said I didn't have any work, but had he eaten today? No, he hadn't. Off I went to the grocery store putting together a package of a variety of food and water that he could eat or save for later, thinking my trip to the closed post office hadn't been in vain after all.

When I returned, he was gone... Well, I decided, maybe there's someone on my way home who needs it more. As I approached my turn off, I saw a very old man, sitting on the curb, elbow on his knees, just staring at the ground. I pulled over and greeted him, asking if he'd had anything to eat today... No, he hadn't. I got out and hauled 3 small bags and a gallon of water over to him, reminding him to be sure to eat the cold stuff first so it wouldn't go bad.

This spirit of giving isn't by any means limited to faith-based organizations, but they do help organize and dispense the goods to those in need. That's why I support the idea in general. We have given clothes to the local Quaker organization, who helps get them to those who need it. So I have no qualms about using the faith-based system to further help my fellow man, even though I'm a bit of a heathen.

Originally posted by FRIGHTENER
Is Obama Bringing Too Much Religion into the White House?

Gosh no. Unless you count secular humanism as a religion. Some people do. Then you might have a case. Otherwise, no. So far he's fine in that department.

Great crikies! Are you kidding?

I didn't think the shapeshifter had a conscious nor a soul.

I started a list of transgressions but soon became tired of keeping up with them.

*1. Abortion issues
*2. Reversal of HRs to ban personal weapons legally owned by Americans, under the auspices to assist Mexico? Please...
*3. Move Chicago Mob with tax-evasion problems to WDC.

I quit here. I am sick.

Originally posted by marg6043
He is heading the path of trying to appeased the part of the population that were in the religious groups that gave him the vote. the Southern Baptist groups.

Star for the keen observation, my friend! (They won't forget, but hopefully can forgive him).

I don't agree with religion within government

I hear ya, and to show that I don't try to appease evryone in my thread () I'm of the opinion that some kind of minimum Morals (not necessarily a denomination) should exist in gov..."Do unto others"...Avoid the seven deadly sins...sort of stuff... What would you think about something along those lines?

For the first time since Obama took the presidential seat I am starting to get very worry about what he is been doing. by executive order.

Yeah, that's a first. But I think it's a diverse group of clergy, representing all faiths/non-faiths.

Obama; socialism; biggest government in history; creating jobs for America.

Great points you raise, Marg, and legitimate concerns regarding so much on his plate at one time. Do you think his beliefs, prayers, and religious council will help in all these assorted affairs, or end up hurting them, kinda like one of them bad threads on ATS that delves into two sides debating endlessly, like a broken record, unable to reach an amicable middle-ground?

[edit on 3/5/2009 by FRIGHTENER]

This is part of plan for the destruction of America.

He first comes riding in on a White Horse. If people just knew his past, then they'll know his future. He's suckering in those who are not strong in the Gospel. The ones who like to be seen at church and pray publicly but in secrecy, they do many devious things.

What is next, he'll be riding on the Red Horse. This means that he'll start a war soon to prove to us that he's not a weakling. He wants to put on a strong image and this is totally out of his character. He was born a weakling and he'll die a weakling. He'll tumble us into a war like the world has never seen.

After this, he'll ride the Pale Horse. This is the sickly horse. Famine will abound at this time. Billions of people will starve in nations that once had plenty all because of his pride.

Last is the riding of the Black Horse. Death in the billions of people, worldwide, during this time. War, famine, sickness will be commonplace. Things will be so bad, people will wish to die than to live and try to make things better.

This whole bit is a charade people. Look at his track record. He's doesn't believe in anything decent. He's the poster-child for the immoral.

Those who follow him will end up in Hell.

reply to post by FRIGHTENER


While I agree that every body is entitle to their own believes I am one of those that will get on any body's face when they tried to tell me how to live my life.

Still not amount of God including the one under the Born again Christian Bush stop the corruption in Washington, neither the prayers or God told Bush that the nation was heading down the crapper.

Congress is full of booze, hookers and pimps.

This country was founded on the belief that we should seperate church and state. As an American I support this.

You can't go around telling people what to believe and then essentially enforcing it. Given all the religions out there as well, whose to say what the right one is...

And this is highly offensive to atheists as well. They don't want religion thrown into their face.

Religion makes opinion seem like fact- your telling someone what to do or not to do and what is wrong and right. I don't support the expansion of religion in our government. Things are bad enough as it is, the last thing we need is another issue.

Y'r welcome BH, and thanks again, for such a great story of self-lessness on your part.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

but had he eaten today? No, he hadn't. Off I went to the grocery store putting together a package of a variety of food and water... I saw a very old man, sitting on the curb,

For an atheist, you do God's work in a Biblical way! After re-visiting your profile, I noticed 'spirituality' and 'religion' under topics you like; Wow! This kindness and generosity you showed to the elderly gentleman demonstrates your true good-natured character. I figure you did it out of the kindness of your heart, but was it also something spiritual in you?

I try my best to help, for similar reasons, AND to sort of build-up a little credit for my own soul, on judgement day!

to further help my fellow man, even though I'm a bit of a heathen.

I am too, a bit! I gotta confess to you: I nearly became an atheist/agnostic, (as a pretty good Catholic my whole life), after my beautiful, young cousin, Bridgett (21) was stalked, abducted, held overnight against her will, and murdered by a 'man' (63) two years ago tomorrow. THEN, when he was finished, he set his filthy place on fire, and shot himself to death!



I cursed God in anger; Over-rought with grief and sadness, and cried myself half-to-death...as my family did, too. We suffered an unforgivable tresspass, and are doing our best to move forward.

I finally meandered back into church, half-a$$ed. Not all there, really, and refusing to stand/kneel/sit/stand/kneel when I was supposed to. But needed to listen. I requested a one-on-one with our Priest. He asked if Bridgett was the forgiving type...

Sorry, I'll stop here. Just working my way back from an abyss, as I know Bridgett would want.

(Oh, I tried to reply back to you, at about 4 o'clock, but MicroSpock Internut Expunger wouldn't let me!!!)

reply to post by FlyersFan

Thanks, FF, happy to have a veteran replying. Star!

Glad you are ok with it so far, like me.

reply to post by DREAMING MAN

Shapeshifter...
Star for that, D M!

Lots of Americans are starting to get a similar impression.

Chicago 'Machine'... I was wondering that myself; honest to God! oops.

reply to post by Intelearthling

A Star for you, glum;...er, I mean, Intelearthling!

Thanks for a vividly bleak, but very possible interpretation of John's Book of Revelation. I can appreciate it.

Have you compiled your view based on world events, past, and present? Or do you posess some extra-sensory perception, which has been correct, previously? I hope it's a little of both, cause I'm fascinated with end-times predictions!