Older autos and EMPs

I have been going over the idea of transportation after an EMP. Aside from saddling up a horse, I think having a vehicle to get someplace in, even if it is a long distance one way trip, might be a good idea.

What were the last vehicles made that the actual driving mechanisms were not electronically/computer controlled? Ideally something that could hold 4+ people and able to handle dirt roads somewhat well. Do I need to start looking for vehicles from the 60's or older?

Has anyone else set themselves up for such a situation?

hello,read your thread,been experimenting with EMP now for about 20 years on and off some of my experiments included cars ,but mostly electronic devices, i believe a old diesel landrover series two role start or add a crank at front of motor,deisel only requires high compression to ignight the fuel.some models also came with PTO that runs of the motor,also have had good success with valve electronics,

From what I have read.. the older the better. I would say mid 80s and below. Anything with electronics could fry.

Something with a carburetor, non electronic fuel pump and a manual transmission (so you can push start it if your battery is dead) would be the best in my non-professional opinion.

Get an older VW prior to electronic ignition, with the air cooled engine. They run forever, are very easy to fix, handle well on various terrain, and are in plentiful supply. Best choice would be a VW Thing, or Safari, as they were called in the UK. They have a very high ground clearance and are more military in style.

You can find all sorts of VWs on The Samba.com all across the US and in Europe.

If I understand the effects of an EMP correctly, the electrical overload sets up a sympathetic current in circuitry which then burns out delicate components making the ignition inoperable. I owned a 1965 Plymouth Valiant that had no electronics onboard and it would be immune to an EMP, provided it was still running. Does that help?

What about the old station wagons that were more like suvs, they may have even been 4x4? The VW may be reliable and plentiful, but it doesn't hold many passengers or extra cargo/fuel. The Plymouth I could make due with.

any petrol engine will require electrical pulse to fire the engine this comes via the coil from the battery or alternator into the rotar button which in turn delivers electricity?? to the spark plugs??? sorry people but no cigar, i referre you to my post at top of page,,!!

reply to post by MEATPIE


A petrol engine will run provided that it does not have modern electronic ignition. It needs a distributor, rotor and points instead. Older models will indeed work. Electronic ignitions would burn out but a distributor system is mechanical in nature. A Battery and coil would still work after an EMP blast. Cold war documents regarding the possibility of an EMP pulse after a nuclear blast even suggest specific models of petrol vehicles for the government to use.

seems liek i heard of the military testing their own vehicles against EMP's and the older ones passed (like jeeps, deuce and a halfs, converted civilian chevy's). I say get a pre-1967 International Harvester Travelette crew-cab truck, or Travelall station wagon (which is as big as the truck, since you're looking for something to haul a lot).

reply to post by Wolf321

You don't have to get a small VW.
VW made the original mini van. The Micro Bus, or Kombi as it is known in several countries. They even made a four wheel drive version called the Syncro. The VW Micro Bus is very rugged and has been used in expeditions all across the globe. They have crossed the African deserts and braved the jungles of South America. You don't have to get a Small Beetle, when a Micro Bus will carry all you need and is comfortable enough to sleep in. They have high ground clearance, with the engine in the rear they have great traction, and can easily go off road.

They also made a version more like a pick up truck with either single cab or double cab. These are still used around the globe as cargo carriers along dirt roads, with canvas covers over steel hoops like one typically sees in military trucks carrying troops or cargo.

reply to post by Terapin


agreed but,since petrol may not be available,diesel engines can be run on various raw products,old diesel four wheel drive vehicels are easy to work on as well!! there probably many "alternatives" being develloped ,,,mostly in peoples back yard`s

Originally posted by Wolf321
I have been going over the idea of transportation after an EMP. Aside from saddling up a horse, I think having a vehicle to get someplace in, even if it is a long distance one way trip, might be a good idea.

What were the last vehicles made that the actual driving mechanisms were not electronically/computer controlled? Ideally something that could hold 4+ people and able to handle dirt roads somewhat well. Do I need to start looking for vehicles from the 60's or older?

Has anyone else set themselves up for such a situation?

Vehicles from 1976 and earlier are the ones to have. Those do not have any form of computer, or electronic ignition system that can be wiped out by EMP.

The engines of those vehicles of that era also had better compression ratio than the later models. That means you can easily modify them to burn other fuels, especially diesel engines of that era.

But there is an easy way to prevent EMP damage to later vehicles with electronic ignition and computers. A very simple and very effective method that would only take a 5 foot rod, a wire and some test clips and a quick connect.



Cheers!!!!

i suppose it depends on the scenario,1EMP,depending on size might be ok ,how about consecutave emp`s or maybe even constant emp which is scientifically plauseable,the devises are easy and inexpensive to make,however a good understanding of physics.ect is required to prepare the device,,,,hope you sneeky gov. op`s are gettin this...anyway in scientific term`s it`s really nothing new

here is a good EMP proof vehicle. Older model mechanical diesel.

Diesel Blazer

4 wheel drive hauler.

they also have matching trailers!!!

reply to post by MEATPIE


Thank you. Why would any one think that anything with a coil would work post emp. I have an idea on a car that mey still work, how about a model A or T, or maybe a kiblinger or somthing.

I actually was curious about the same issue a few months ago and did some research. To protect an electronic device, you need some thing called a Faraday cage.

Faraday Box: "A Faraday box is simply a metal box designed to divert and soak up the EMP. If the object placed in the box is insulated from the inside surface of the box, it will not be effected by the EMP traveling around the outside metal surface of the box."

Source

All cars are to some extent faraday boxes. They are insulated by their rubber tires. The above source beleives that not all cars would survive an EMP; however, I think that the odds are that most cars, including modern cars would come through an EMP just fine.

The radiation from the nuclear blast might cause other problems.

One thing I was considering doing was getting an H1 hummer used, and storing it in a metal shed like the types below:

www.steelmasterusa.com...

Not promoting this particular brand or product, this site came up on google when I searched.

The reason I like the H1 is that it has unsurpased off road capability, it is relatively simple on the tech front, and it will probably be good protection from those who are unprepared.

Alternatively, I think any type of car, any model year, if stored in a metal container would survive a pulse.

The older model cars with point and coil ignition would be fairly immune to EMP I would think. That was the very purpose of the ignition system wasn't it? Those ignition systems were designed to generate high-voltage electrical pulses and deliver them to the spark plugs. I suspect that if an EMP were to be generated of sufficient strength to damage one of those, then it might well do a pretty good job of scrambling the delicate circuitry in our brains as well, so that we wouldn't worry about traveling anymore.

The thing about a Faraday cage is that the current generated by EMP has to have a path to ground, i.e., a grounding rod. Insulating the cage FROM the ground i.e., rubber tires, will negate the effectiveness. When the current generated by EMP pulse travels through a conductor, it will follow the path of least resistance, and any circiutry in an automobile is grounded TO the metal cage. In order for Faraday cage principle to be used to preserve newer type autos, the computer must be removed and secured separately in a properly grounded Faraday cage. Also note that older cars with points and condensor or point and coil ignition are ELECTRICAL not ELECTRONIC. Ignition coils are made to generate the high voltage spark for combustion and will easily withstand EMP type shocks. The danger to newer cars is that the tiny Surface Mount components in the electronics that cannot tolerate any sort of high voltage.

Also note to add that a microwave oven is a perfect ready-made Faraday cage, because it is already designed to contain the electromagnetic radiation it produces. Just add a beefed up ground connection to a grounding rod and any tossed out microwave will preserve your vital electronics.

reply to post by hotrodturbo7


Wouldn't that mean an airplane would be immune to EMP?

I thought EMP induced current in delicate electronics and basically melted them?


edit:

(I just re-read your post and you said the opposite... never mind... )



[edit on 3/5/09 by emsed1]

I have a 92 jeep - If I buy all the parts that would be fried in an EMP and put them in a lead box I could then swap them with the fried parts after EMP. This was I dont have to put the entire vehicle in a lead box..