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civil war in europe ?

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posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by Foppezao
It is nice to see that most Europeans have the same consciousness about peace in our union, that is why the EU is important, but also to act flexibel to tackle these clashes. We had the same clash before between Catholic and Protestant and we have learnt from that.Sadly the UK had to overcome civil war first.But look they are ruling together now.In most countries thankfully states overcame that with with peacefull means.
And yes that is why it is also important to criticize the EU and the creation of a constitution.
trial and error.



[edit on 4-3-2009 by Foppezao]


i dont want to burst your bubble, but i think what has accured in the uk is a lot more people have become athiests, & both catholic & christian churches have lost poeple, perhaps this new athiesm is what brings the peace & living togetherness. & when you say ruling together, there are laws in place to make sure religion & the ruling of the country are kept seperate because together it seems to cause war !!!!.
i think you may find even today in many religions that people are no less eager to give there life for there chosen god.
flexebility in society is a good thing as you point out,
but civil war is not a bad thing iether, its like a society hitting the default button, many people die, population reduced, political views are put on track & society once again knows where is stands. i believe all societys have benefited from civil wars as there are always lessons hopefuly learned.
some times be being to flexible like today example western freedom to express your self meets islam an idealogy that is almost the total opposite with its severe lack of freedoms, mix the two together & for a while multiculturism will exist, but eventually one way of thinking will become dominant. & at this point the original society loses its identity, the dominant way of thinking becomes the new identity. much of the time this cultural experiment will turn into a civil war. because not every one will be happy to give up an identity that is hundreds of years old & who can blame them ??.




posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 05:56 PM
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It seems that both the people in government and the people need to grow a back bone and toss this ridiculous Political Correctness thing.
Call it for what it is.
This term "racist" is about the most misused word that I have heard.
By useage it has become a nasty insult.
No one has to accept this.
Unfortunately they are so well programmed that white people turn on each other when anything negative is said about another race.

Yes, anyone can be Muslim, however most of them are the dark races.

Those who do not view them and their growing numbers, and their creeping control are in for a rude awakening in the future if they allow this to continue.

The thing to do?
When they object to your criticizm and call you "racist", you say, " Yes, I am racist and if you don't like it go back to where you came from."



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by Dermo
reply to post by cooler
 


This is a little OTT.

Most Muslims in the EU integrate well.. many create their own 'settlements' in suburbs and inner city areas but most do not cause ANY trouble.

There is a tiny portion of the EU Muslim minority that is extremist but that is blown completely out of proportion.

Some countries are resisting "Islamification" in the form of mosques etc by denying planning permission. The vast majority of Muslims understand this because their countries do not permit many of our places of worship to be built.

The process of integration can be sticky at times but it takes a generation for a family to be properly integrated.

Also, easily half of the Muslims that are born into our countries are not practicing their faith.

The perception given by many US media outlets is that the Muslims are taking over and that they are dangerous.. this is propaganda used to fuel fear.

i think certain aspects of the way islamofascism vs islamophobia are both blown out of proportion to a degree, but if you say small amount of radical muslims it makes it sound unimportant, but when you speak in numbers of near 20 million in europe, it is very important for host countrys to understand where does the muslim population loyaltys lie ???, this loyalty makes a huge difference to the host country.
a muslim paying taxes & working does not mean that muslim is loyal to the host country, if the muslim population becomes a majority & in many cases this will be fact in time due to muslims family sises,
& you happen to be gay or lesbian exorsising your freedom of choice, muslims that remain loyal to the quran would prefere that you & your gay friend be killed in the name of allah.
to fully undertstand this potentially misplaced loyalty read this
www.civilliberty.org.uk...



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 06:18 PM
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Originally posted by cooler
... the romanian muslim rapes in itali
Romanian Muslim rapes?

Where did you got that information?



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by cooler
... the romanian muslim rapes in itali
Romanian Muslim rapes?

Where did you got that information?

i cant find one of the news articles on this but i have seen this romanian issue on the news bbc & sky several times,
heres another forum i found speaking about this issue.
engforum.pravda.ru...



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by OhZone
Yes, anyone can be Muslim, however most of them are the dark races.
What do you mean by "dark races"?

Most Muslims I know are as dark as I am, and I am white, like most Portuguese people.



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by cooler
 


I asked because I have seen it on the news several times, and they always said that they were Gypsies, and they are Christians, not Muslims.



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by cooler
 


I asked because I have seen it on the news several times, and they always said that they were Gypsies, and they are Christians, not Muslims.


when i have seen the italian rape issue on the news it was indicated that the majority of the romanian rapists where muslim.
if this was infact a christian iether way i hope they get thrown in prison.



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by cooler


No, it's definitely GYPSIES being persecuted in Italy, nothing to do with Muslims whatsoever! I see you have a clear agenda and I don't like it, especially linking to far right propaganda websites. Considering you aren't even from here (from what I can tell) it's evident you are basing your beliefs on lies and untruths, did you get those websites from stormfront, perchance?



Small groups of extremists both from small separate Islamic groups and righthand extremists of European origin create a mess now


This sums it up quite nicely, in fact it's usually the far-right nazi groups such as the BNP who are to blame for the troubles as the Muslim extremists are constantly investigated by governments.



posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by Goathief
 


all the links i have found where on google.
i have an agenda to question the loyalty of islam & its potintial threat to europe. & i think its worthy thing to be questioning in the current times & with what seems to be happening,
your angenda ?, to silence people from questioning such subjects ??.



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 04:55 AM
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Originally posted by cooler
the romanian muslim rapes in itali


You just set a new standard for "denying ignorance". Seriously, where do you get your information from? Is the rest of the info in your thread as well researched as this pearl of wisdom?

There are NO muslims in Romania apart from a few immigrants and a tiny ethnic minority, and they're obviously not the rapists in Italy. I won't go into that, since it's not the subject of your thread.

There won't be any civil war in Europe, as long as the authorities don't encourage hate and segregation.

P.S. From wiki:


The majority of the country's citizens are members of the Romanian Orthodox Church, with 86.7% of the country's population identifying as Eastern Orthodox. Other important religions include Roman Catholicism (4.7%), Protestantism (3.7%), Pentecostal denominations (1.5%) and the Romanian Greek-Catholic Church (0.9%).



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 05:37 AM
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Originally posted by Wallachian

Originally posted by cooler
the romanian muslim rapes in itali


You just set a new standard for "denying ignorance". Seriously, where do you get your information from? Is the rest of the info in your thread as well researched as this pearl of wisdom?

There are NO muslims in Romania apart from a few immigrants and a tiny ethnic minority, and they're obviously not the rapists in Italy. I won't go into that, since it's not the subject of your thread.

There won't be any civil war in Europe, as long as the authorities don't encourage hate and segregation.

P.S. From wiki:


The majority of the country's citizens are members of the Romanian Orthodox Church, with 86.7% of the country's population identifying as Eastern Orthodox. Other important religions include Roman Catholicism (4.7%), Protestantism (3.7%), Pentecostal denominations (1.5%) and the Romanian Greek-Catholic Church (0.9%).





civil war in the eu may not happen this year but, the dutch mep geert wilders was invited to speak in the uk parliment & to show his film "fitna" he was turned away from the uk as a threat to englands peace, this was also seen as silencing free speach.
where as many radical imams have been allowed into the uk, this is appeasement to radical islam.
& in england at present, the lack of control over our boarders has lead to mass immigration, thanks to brussels, all three main partys labour.conservative, libdems all refuse to debate this.
so by there own decision to remain silent on this, they them selves have created a political vacume on this issue.
also in the 70s labour were a left party fighting for the working man, today labour have turned there back on the working man, & in place labour support big buisness & huge bank bailouts, more & more public can see they have been deserted by the main partys, i think its becuase of this the vacume is being filled by the bnp, people are sick of being lied to.
there seems to be change in the wind, what that change will bring is any ones guess for now, but the hate & segregation you mention are being caused by labours refusal to address the voting publics concerns.
if labour did address these concerns then its likley that the bnp would not be as popular. but my guess is that labour will continue not addressing these concerns because they know the voting muslims will be upset & right now appeasement of minoritys is more important to labour.
but who ever does confront the majority concern over mass immigration may cause all kinds of issues.
& if by government neglect the bnp or other right wing party get voted in, is the bnp or right wing partys fault or is the government neglect to blame ?



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by cooler
civil war in the eu may not happen this year but, the dutch mep geert wilders was invited to speak in the uk parliment & to show his film "fitna" he was turned away from the uk as a threat to englands peace, this was also seen as silencing free speach.


Good, he's not a nice man and he should not be made welcome.



where as many radical imams have been allowed into the uk, this is appeasement to radical islam.


Many extreme clerics have also been deported from the country, it's hard to know when one is because they don't exactly broadcast their views until they are here - not really a valid point is it?


in england at present, the lack of control over our boarders has lead to mass immigration, thanks to brussels, all three main partys labour.conservative, libdems all refuse to debate this.


Two things: firstly they do debate it (a quick google seach with provide thousands of links) and secondly "our boarders"? Are you British? I had assumed English was your second language and you also said this:


i do know europe have travelled around europe quite a bit, have family in europe


... so where are you from exactly?



its likley that the bnp would not be as popular. but my guess is that labour will continue not addressing these concerns because they know the voting muslims will be upset & right now appeasement of minoritys is more important to labour.


The BNP is a tiny party with very few (although hardcore) supporters, they were almost outnumbered by protesters at their annual nazi-fest and thankfully will be unable to host it in the same location next year.

[edit on 5-3-2009 by Goathief]



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 07:57 AM
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Interesting notion, but wrong circumstances.

If the Eurozone was to collapse and the European Union to fail, a power vacuum - larger than that since the fall of Rome - would engulf Europe.
This modern Austrian-Hungarian Empire scenario is the worst possible nightmare for Europe - millions of citizens would become illegal in numerous countries. Rapid expulsions from border to border will lead to persecutions and armed responses.

EU law would not exist nor European citizen rights.

The EU is run as a benevolent dictatorship because it has to in order to operate and manage twenty seven different nations. Imagine, if you will, what will happen if dictatorship ended?

You'd have chaos in Eastern Europe. EU membership gave them protection and economic empowerment.

Nihilism would rule across a Europe that was united for sixty years. The economic disillusionment would bankrupt fragile nations - Ireland, Italy, Spain, Greece, et al - and fascist movements could accumulate. After all, the European Parliament currently has a significant neo-fascist, racialist and ultra-nationalist segment. It's highly plausible.

And, to reformulate a political union, a single unifying force would be needed. This time, treaties wouldn't be signed with euphoric ceremonies or ostentatious summits - it would take a war to unify Europe.



[edit on 5-3-2009 by infinite]



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 04:23 PM
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Originally posted by Goathief

Originally posted by cooler
civil war in the eu may not happen this year but, the dutch mep geert wilders was invited to speak in the uk parliment & to show his film "fitna" he was turned away from the uk as a threat to englands peace, this was also seen as silencing free speach.


Good, he's not a nice man and he should not be made welcome.



where as many radical imams have been allowed into the uk, this is appeasement to radical islam.


Many extreme clerics have also been deported from the country, it's hard to know when one is because they don't exactly broadcast their views until they are here - not really a valid point is it?


in england at present, the lack of control over our boarders has lead to mass immigration, thanks to brussels, all three main partys labour.conservative, libdems all refuse to debate this.


Two things: firstly they do debate it (a quick google seach with provide thousands of links) and secondly "our boarders"? Are you British? I had assumed English was your second language and you also said this:


i do know europe have travelled around europe quite a bit, have family in europe


... so where are you from exactly?



its likley that the bnp would not be as popular. but my guess is that labour will continue not addressing these concerns because they know the voting muslims will be upset & right now appeasement of minoritys is more important to labour.


The BNP is a tiny party with very few (although hardcore) supporters, they were almost outnumbered by protesters at their annual nazi-fest and thankfully will be unable to host it in the same location next year.

[edit on 5-3-2009 by Goathief]

whether you like an mep or not is irelivent, but refusing entry to geert wilders sends a loud & clear message that free speach is not welcome. that is fascist.

i believe ken livingstone welcomed some questionable clerics & to assume that hate preaching clerics not being a valid point is a poor, lame answer.

the boarders of england, i still see englands boarders as her own, becuase to give control of englands boarders to a force that is not english, is treason, the lisbon treaty breaks this law.
freebritain.wordpress.com...
over all the issue of mass immigration over the uk boarders is not being addressed enouph to stop voters leaving in droves.

i have travelled around europe & much of the world, where i am from is not relevent to will there be a civil war in the eu.

the size of the bnp can not be estemated on a turnout at a protest, if this were true, the three main partys would only have a few thousand members.
time will tell what the bnp will win in june & 2010, & because of the lies upon lies from the three main partys, there are now growing numbers of both labour & conservative disafected voters that realise they are no longer represented, so its dificult to say who & how many seats will be won, but rest assured labour are dead in the water & will be out of office soon enouph.
labour used to be a lefty party, but now there a right wing party like a pale version of the cons, the cons well they are like a boat with no direction, libdems, they are no threat at all, people want a massive change & the three main half dead partys know it. who does that leave as a posibe vote winner considering mass immigration that is out of control ?.



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by infinite
Interesting notion, but wrong circumstances.

If the Eurozone was to collapse and the European Union to fail, a power vacuum - larger than that since the fall of Rome - would engulf Europe.
This modern Austrian-Hungarian Empire scenario is the worst possible nightmare for Europe - millions of citizens would become illegal in numerous countries. Rapid expulsions from border to border will lead to persecutions and armed responses.

EU law would not exist nor European citizen rights.

The EU is run as a benevolent dictatorship because it has to in order to operate and manage twenty seven different nations. Imagine, if you will, what will happen if dictatorship ended?

You'd have chaos in Eastern Europe. EU membership gave them protection and economic empowerment.

Nihilism would rule across a Europe that was united for sixty years. The economic disillusionment would bankrupt fragile nations - Ireland, Italy, Spain, Greece, et al - and fascist movements could accumulate. After all, the European Parliament currently has a significant neo-fascist, racialist and ultra-nationalist segment. It's highly plausible.

And, to reformulate a political union, a single unifying force would be needed. This time, treaties wouldn't be signed with euphoric ceremonies or ostentatious summits - it would take a war to unify Europe.



[edit on 5-3-2009 by infinite]


i dont think you can realy have the wrong circumstances to fall into a civil war or for war for that matter, there is no right way for it to happen,
but on the subject of power vacume in the eu, well right now the main issue is the credit crunch, & trying to keep not just the eu but the world to keep agreeing not to go protectionist, in my opinion they are doing well so far, but how long can they keep this up for ?, many usa houses are now in negative equity, mass bail outs world wide, printing money as fast as posible, interest rates are at all time lows, increasing job losses, & so far none of this is working, & predictions are that this depression is not liley to improve untill 2010

i dont think it will take many countrys to go protectionism befor it brings the whole lot down with it, & to stop that from happening print money !

hyper inflation & debt running into hundreds of billions maybe trillions,
worthless currencys, then the sh-t realy hits the fan, civil war that may spread with very alarming spead, whether there is a different reason that brings a power vacume sooner is any ones guess ?, but this is likley to happen.
maybe we could stop it by the whole world agreeing to trade & use monopoly money instead

when all the dust settles who knows maybe your right, we will find nothing has worked & the eu brussels mafia dictatorship is still in control
or a brand new dictatorship.



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 05:39 PM
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Armap asks, “What do I mean by dark races?” Does it help if I say other than white. Yes, I know there are white people who are Muslim. However the majority of them are other than white.

It has been noted that it was not white muslims that were involved in those riots in France.

Why do people knock "Stormfront".
Is it because they have news that the mainstream ignores?
And if mainstream news does not mention it there for it cannot be?

Fact is the country of the white people is being invaded by unfriendly forces. They will be over run and soon be an oppressed minority in the land of their Ancestors.


"(ANSA) - Rome, February 18 - Police on Wednesday were
questioning two Romanians in connection with the rape of a
14-year-old girl in a Rome park on Valentine`s Day.
Alexandru Loyos, 20, was taken into custody in Rome
after the girl identified him among a group of eight
Romanians brought to a police station from an illegal gypsy
camp.
Karol Racz, 36, was stopped at a gypsy camp near Livorno
as he tried to flee to Spain."

Romanian Gypsies



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 06:11 PM
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reply to post by OhZone
 


Racially, North African and Arabian people are white, so, unless you are speaking of Indonesians, for example, of sub-Sahara African people, then those Muslims are white.

And the example you show of the Romanian Gypsies that were accused of the rape of the 14 years old Italian girl were probably as white as the girl.



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by OhZone
Why do people knock "Stormfront".


Uh, because it's full of pathetic racist idiots. Take this thread for example:

/forum/showthread.php?t=578055]Craigslist filth


I found this in the platonic area. Disgusting and sadly some brainwashed White woman will race mix at the same time as stepping out on her husband. I feel bad for whatever white husband is left to scrub himself in scalding water to wash the filth of what his wife does.




Southern white gentleman looking for a beautiful black woman.

Isn't that like looking for a unicorn? Neither exists.



Ewie Ewie Gross!


Etc.


Originally posted by cooler
whether you like an mep or not is irelivent, but refusing entry to geert wilders sends a loud & clear message that free speach is not welcome. that is fascist.


So using the same logic we should allow the extreme clerics to continue and not deport them. You can't have it both ways.




i have travelled around europe & much of the world, where i am from is not relevent to will there be a civil war in the eu.


Is is very much so because you said "our" when referring to England - you are not English or British and would be an immigrant just like the ones you are scapegoating.


the size of the bnp can not be estemated on a turnout at a protest, if this were true, the three main partys would only have a few thousand members.

I wasn't talking about a BNP protest, rather their red white and blue festival which is the biggest event on their calendar and is attended by nearly all their members. Also the member list was leaked onto the internet last year and it contained less than 8,000! That's almost pitiful, the reason they sometimes get more at elections is something called protest voting. I suggest you look it up.

Either way they have been exposed countless times as violent, racist thugs - did you know the man who runs their website was imprisoned for attempting to blow up a mixed race school in South Africa? Luckily he was too stupid to make the bomb correctly but these people are the bread & butter of the BNP.

I am English, I know what happens in my own country - yet you are claiming to know more? Makes I larf...



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by Goathief

Originally posted by OhZone
Why do people knock "Stormfront".


Uh, because it's full of pathetic racist idiots. Take this thread for example:

/forum/showthread.php?t=578055]Craigslist filth


I found this in the platonic area. Disgusting and sadly some brainwashed White woman will race mix at the same time as stepping out on her husband. I feel bad for whatever white husband is left to scrub himself in scalding water to wash the filth of what his wife does.




Southern white gentleman looking for a beautiful black woman.

Isn't that like looking for a unicorn? Neither exists.



Ewie Ewie Gross!


Etc.


Originally posted by cooler
whether you like an mep or not is irelivent, but refusing entry to geert wilders sends a loud & clear message that free speach is not welcome. that is fascist.


So using the same logic we should allow the extreme clerics to continue and not deport them. You can't have it both ways.




i have travelled around europe & much of the world, where i am from is not relevent to will there be a civil war in the eu.


Is is very much so because you said "our" when referring to England - you are not English or British and would be an immigrant just like the ones you are scapegoating.


the size of the bnp can not be estemated on a turnout at a protest, if this were true, the three main partys would only have a few thousand members.

I wasn't talking about a BNP protest, rather their red white and blue festival which is the biggest event on their calendar and is attended by nearly all their members. Also the member list was leaked onto the internet last year and it contained less than 8,000! That's almost pitiful, the reason they sometimes get more at elections is something called protest voting. I suggest you look it up.

Either way they have been exposed countless times as violent, racist thugs - did you know the man who runs their website was imprisoned for attempting to blow up a mixed race school in South Africa? Luckily he was too stupid to make the bomb correctly but these people are the bread & butter of the BNP.

I am English, I know what happens in my own country - yet you are claiming to know more? Makes I larf...


wow patronising is a good signal that your arguements are week as your government

i remember a certain englishman in exeter that was converted into islam had the same problem with bomb making skills too, lucky for the people in the area he only managed to injure him self.

as for continueing to allow hate preaching clerics into the uk, well i think its liley to continue, but where as geert wilders was turned away, this is clear appeasement to islam. & is against free speach.
you can twist words & split hairs all you like but thankfully it seems people are realising whats going on, & as pointed out the current labour government that is guilty of treason & has clearly broken the law, is dead in the water & likley not going to get voted in for many years to come,
england needs to enforce its treason laws to stop criminals like blair & brown, put them both in the gallows where they belong.
public anger is going to continue to grow. & who can blame them ?.
& as for protest voting, well both the labour & cons are worried, becasue they are almost identical partys now, so the protest vote may have gone to the cons in the past but whats the point now ?, much of the protest vote from both partys may well end up going further right wing, because all the three main partys are collectivly spineless.



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