When does a group belief become a cult and why?

Originally posted by DangerDeath

I think groups are dangerous for several reasons. Paying attention to what others are doing and talking about is very distracting and prevents you to properly focus on what you are doing.

In meditation centers you are separated from everyone and you communicate with your instructor.

Another person can help you indirectly, helping you articulate your experience. You may adopt someone else's system of interpretation, but don't take it for granted. You should confirm everything with your own experience.

I totally agree on this. How can following a group ever help achieve enlightenment , it can not.

Paying attention to what others are doing and talking about is very distracting and prevents you to properly focus on what you are doing.

Exactly PAYING attention to others and talking about it is distracting and Id have to agree with you also, dangerous.

Can I ask you and others this, why then do people still constantly feel the need to be in a group and sometimes even a cult

Buddhism I must mention this because of all the religions ,I quite like this one,obviously as a silent observer.
The Buddha taught our delusional belief in "me" causes our many dissatisfactions with life [dukkha] When the illusion is experienced as illusion we are liberated.
That teaching if taken by humanity would not allow for the pyramid capstone path.
An advantage by truthholders would be left in tatters.
So many times the Buddhism model resonates with me and defys criticism
from most academic levels.


[edit on 4-3-2009 by headlightone]

Originally posted by Mr Green

Originally posted by headlightone
I would love to hear from any ex cult, or society members or even some current members .
information from both sides of the fence would be great.

Im sorry headlightone but this isnt very likely is it really. A member of a cult most probably does not realize they are in a cult, and even if they did they would be too scared to come on here and say "hey Im in a cult we do this that and the other". Cults are secretive and controlled, no way are you going to get current members of a cult to come on your thread and admit it. Ex members maybe but you'll be lucky to get any inside information from a current member of a cult.

Im sure theres plenty of info on the web though about people that have managed to break free, how they did it and what made them finally leave.

I'm a member of the Soka Gakkai International. Some label us a Buddhist cult.
Here is a link: www.sgi-usa.org...

Originally posted by Nichiren

I'm a member of the Soka Gakkai International. Some label us a Buddhist cult.
Here is a link: www.sgi-usa.org...

Really those two words are not ones that I would put together...buddhism and cult. Why is it seen as so?

Originally posted by Mr Green

Can I ask you and others this, why then do people still constantly feel the need to be in a group and sometimes even a cult

I dunno Green why did you join a group ha ha ha
That was a joke by the way

Originally posted by DangerDeath

This brings us to the concept of REINCARNATION.

Now, it may be really impossible to accomplish this goal in one life time, so the idea of reincarnation comes to play together with the idea of karma - the action-reaction principle.

The way I see it, knowledge is accumulated as our experience, and it is metaphysical package, pure force, which we call Self.

Since our combined perception including reason is actually our physical body, and this body is the experience of the world itself, when the body dies, what is left is this energy package - experience. Being the force it cannot be destroyed as physical body.

This remains an open question, because I have no experience to confirm it, but it seems logical to me:

IF this experience can survive physical death, it can be reborn.

Now, the newly born sentient being (not necessarily human) will have this energy package for starters. And it is relatively big, this person will probably express as some special talent, special ability of some kind. Like talent for arts, mathematics, philosophy, charisma, etc.

What is most certainly lost is just the concrete, "private" historical agenda, a biography so to say.

But energy package, being the force i.e. knowledge will give this person ability to deal with obstacles, first in form of intuition (silent knowledge, or sometimes simply designated as "luck", born under lucky star).

So, I believe that it is possible to accumulate and gradually advance towards the ideal state, which in Christianity is called God-Man and I don't think that the idea of monopolizing it makes any sense at all and it is very wrong and oppressive.

How many life times it may take, depends on the effort invested in this spiritual mode of being.

This is just my hypothesis, it is in accordance with many existing beliefs, and whether it is right or wrong is of less importance, because right now I find id quite operational and useful as a measure which applies to what I'm doing.

Wow, very very nicely said!

What makes you say the following remark?

"What is most certainly lost is just the concrete, "private" historical agenda, a biography so to say."

Have you ever considered that your current state as a human being is the sum of your private, historical agenda?

Originally posted by headlightone
reply to post by SS,Naga

 

Is the reincarnation process the key for them is that why most religions
cater for this warm tummy feeling belief.

I see that if everyone jumped without fear into the abyss, energy would stop feeding up to the capstone What would the pyramid model look like without reincarnation.
Its very thought provoking reading.

Hey! I can attempt to answer this a couple ways, one simple:

Yes, reincarnation is the key process for them to receive renewable energy within their hierarchy. Why else keep the people ignorant of their higher spiritual potential? Also, as this raises, they become uncontrollable.

Harder to explain, is the reincarnation process as experienced here on Earth: this one might pass everybody by, but I will try:

There is No Death: this is illusion: Life & Death are but the Two Aspects of the Infinity-Factor Energetic Configuration: it operates exactly as the alternating current motor: In Phase - Out of Phase, a revolving magnetic-electric current, cycling (reversing on itself) over and over again. The Electric State is Life, the magnetic state is 'death' (no positive charge).

Humanity is this Energetic Current of Life & Death (no annihilation), and is (pay attention here! this is the difficult part) Kept in the Containment Field (of the cycling energy) of the Rulers, Watchers, Guardians, call them what you will: aliens, masters, entities, demigods, etc. I have a name for them, but won't bring that up here.

Don Juan told Carlos that 'Guardians Become Jailors.' He indicated they gave reasons for such: it is a long story, but to whittle it down a bit: the Energy was just too good to give up: remember that part about 'Sticky' (the spirit side) I discussed? Remember how I said our Lifeforce energy transforms into Cash in the material, symbolic state? Remember how a thread here on ATS discussed how just looking at money, made people greedy for more? See Cash: get Greedy: it is greed that has brought the human race and the Earth to it's knees: this Sticky effect, can't let go, can't give it up.

This is the reason Guardians become Jailers: this is a prison planet, and you and all of humanity are trapped within their Containment Field: yes, this Includes your Souls, which is the whole object of the containment field: They can trap the lower half of the Soul energies, but not the Higher half.

Starting to get any clearer? None of this is pretend, or made up: it's just unknown, and quite unbelievable for most to apprehend: you have to be near the Top to See this Clear (clear light: the Brilliance: Alpha & Omega: #13); few are high enough to perceive it directly, much less believe it when told about it.

Now, about the Model of the Capstone without local reincarnation: Well, let's just touch on this and make it really short (I've got lots of info here):

If you all have any idea of the Trinitial nature of the WORD (SoulSelf), then you know what I'm going to say: This Pyramidic State Cycles through Three stages: 1st, 2nd, 3rd States of Attention (Awareness): consciousness evolves into High Awareness, and does so through Three Phases and One Shift (too complex for ATS: requires inner assist, or a trustable outer assist, which is dangerous): This simply means it can Extend Itself into Three States at Will: It's called Opening the One Eye.

How does this work? I am only going to give you all an incredible Clue right here, right now, something that you just don't stumble across often, and even when you do, you miss it:

Take a seed; or, take an embryo; take the pineal gland (all the same):
Wait for it... .... ...

It Sees, Perceives Itself, As A Fully Developed Being! Upon cracking the Shell of the Veil (Sleep Phase), it Disappears through the Eye of the Vortex (matter vortex, tripled down), and begins to Fill Out the Pre-Perceived (pre-existent) Pattern. This is the Energy Matrice, or Pre-Existent Grid Framework (template, if you will). What does this all mean? It means that the Capstone is in All three States Simultaneously, but does not need to manifest (emanate-excrete) the lower state, unless Desired. It is Self-Existent.

Sound like hoo-doo malarky? This is lower mind, the Snare of Illusion, working it's magic on your spiritual Knowing function. Disregard it: use the incredible technique of Inner Silence, which is easily mimicked by consciously placing Mind In Abeyance. This, too, can be scary ("I'll lose myself!"), but in no other way can this be truly experienced: realized - known - and brought to embodiment: wisdom.

Is this cultism? The Universe is a cult: but it is Based Upon the Perfect Flame-WORD of S/He.

[edit on 4-3-2009 by SS,Naga]

Originally posted by headlightone

I dunno Green why did you join a group

ha ha ha
That was a joke by the way

Actually jokes aside that is a very good question.

I was drawn to the people, I liked the people, the groups belief was secondary. Do you find that a strange answer headlightone? Do you find it strange that I joined a group because I liked the people, and their message was secondary? I do , maybe you can explain it.

[edit on 4-3-2009 by Mr Green]

Originally posted by THELONIO
when does a cult become a religion?

That's a good question.

IMHO, a cult becomes a religion when the following criteria are met:

1. It is accepted as an official religion by the federal government;

2. It has become part of mainstream culture;

3. It has millions of members; and,

4. It has many temples or churches.

Originally posted by Mr Green

Originally posted by Nichiren

I'm a member of the Soka Gakkai International. Some label us a Buddhist cult.
Here is a link: www.sgi-usa.org...

Really those two words are not ones that I would put together...buddhism and cult. Why is it seen as so?

Unfortunately there are many sects in Buddhism. We are not as homogenous as it may seem. Our common ground is the historical Buddha, Shakyamuni. It quickly deviated from there.

Here is a link: www.culthelp.info...

Originally posted by Nichiren
reply to post by Paul_Richard

 

Why would you label "Scientology" as benevolent? Just curious ...

Because if it were not, you wouldn't and couldn't have people like John Travolta and Tom Cruise supporting it openly and publicly. The same reason why you hardly, if ever, hear any mention of Sai Baba on cable television - at least in the US. There are too many significant allegations attached to him and his nefarious activities at his ashram in India.

Moreover, if any church that had any scandal attached to it were to be labeled a malevolent cult, then that would pretty much wipe them all out.



[edit on 4-3-2009 by Paul_Richard]

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by Nichiren
reply to post by Paul_Richard

 

Why would you label "Scientology" as benevolent? Just curious ...

Because if it were not, you wouldn't and couldn't have people like John Travolta and Tom Cruise supporting it openly and publicly. The same reason why you hardly, if ever, hear any mention of Sai Baba on cable television - at least in the US. There are too many significant allegations attached to him and his nefarious activities at his ashram in India.

Moreover, if any church that had any scandal attached to it were to be labeled a malevolent cult, then that would pretty much wipe them all out.

[edit on 4-3-2009 by Paul_Richard]

I got news for you! You do realize that the US is not the only country on earth?
home.snafu.de...

Originally posted by Nichiren
I'm a member of the Soka Gakkai International. Some label us a Buddhist cult.
Here is a link: www.sgi-usa.org...

I was perusing some of the site links.

It is interesting to note the emphasis on chanting, which is also found in Hinduism.

It appears that you belong to a benevolent cult.

Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Originally posted by Nichiren
I'm a member of the Soka Gakkai International. Some label us a Buddhist cult.
Here is a link: www.sgi-usa.org...

I was perusing some of the site links.

It is interesting to note the emphasis on chanting, which is also found in Hinduism.

It appears that you belong to a benevolent cult.

I see you got humor. I like that a lot!

Yes, I would consider SGI a benevolent cult. There are some darker sides to it, but that comes with the territory.

Originally posted by Nichiren
You do realize that the US is not the only country on earth?
home.snafu.de...

Yes, I am well aware of this and I would not presume to know what is happening in all parts of the world in regard to any one particular faith or philosophy.

Not even the one I am involved with.

Thanks for the heads-up about the official German stance on Scientology.

Economic imperialism is a common theme among some faiths and it is something we all have to keep an eye out for.

I remember reading some time ago about the Scientologist organization taking over Clearwater, Florida. Legally of course but something that still makes one feel uneasy.

EDIT: It should also be mentioned that one can follow the principles and beliefs of a particular faith and not be part of the umbrella organization.

[edit on 4-3-2009 by Paul_Richard]

reply to post by Paul_Richard


What attracted you to Scientology? Just curious ... In my part of the world we're hearing horror stories about dependency and financial exploitation.

The Four Heads of The Beast
(From OAHSPE, by John Ballou Newbrough, 1884)

Benevolent cults? You mean like good cop, bad cop? Good religion, bad religion?

Religion is ignorance, control of the lower mind, regardless of it's advertising.

Several here have knowledgeably posted about the necessity of developing alone, when an awareness level is reached where they can begin to question on their own. Until that time, they are chattel.

[edit on 4-3-2009 by SS,Naga]

reply to post by SS,Naga

Humanity is this Energetic Current of Life & Death (no annihilation), and is (pay attention here! this is the difficult part) Kept in the Containment Field (of the cycling energy) of the Rulers, Watchers, Guardians, call them what you will: aliens, masters, entities, demigods, etc. I have a name for them, but won't bring that up here.

But who are they? Are they highly enlightened beings in some control room? Once I went far, I went too far, I could tell Id travelled along way, I just knew. There was a man in a blue robe, he was old, he was in a control room, he looked shocked to see me, then he pointed out of the "window" to a large blue galaxy. Everything was bright blue and white. I paniced and came crashing back, as I did I felt my body crying out for air. I have no idea where I had been.

He looked like some guardian.

Starting to get any clearer? None of this is pretend, or made up: it's jsut unknow, and quite unbelievable for most to apprehend: you have to be near the Top to See this Clear (clear light: the Brilliance: Alpha & Omega: #13).

yes Naga it is becoming clearer, it is unbelievable to apprehend, but like most things now I listen then allow it to go in, if it truely resonates with me after my many questions then I add it to my bank of information. there is so much information on this it is often hard to know what to believe!

SS,Naga...this is quite explosive information, do you ever worry "they" may visit you (whoever they may be!), have you ever been pressurized not to speak of this?

Originally posted by Nichiren
reply to post by Paul_Richard

 

What attracted you to Scientology? Just curious ... In my part of the world we're hearing horror stories about dependency and financial exploitation.

Sorry for the miscommunication.

I am not a Scientologist.

I am a Solist Mystic.

If you want to learn more about that, as I am not at liberty to provide links in here, go to my profile, scroll down, and click on the left link to my Life Lessons page.

Our main technique for raising consciousness, which many do without being part of our International Fellowship, is called Heart Chakra Radiance (HCR).

We don't chant and our method of prayer is also somewhat different than traditional approaches.

reply to post by SS,Naga

I mean good people and bad people. You find these in every organization, not just religious ones.

Just think how oppressive it would be if we were all forced to embrace one world religion. Even if it wasn't labeled as such - like communism for example.

A totalitarian regime.

That is the absolute worst kind of religion.

Thus, it is good to have the benefit of many choices.

[edit on 4-3-2009 by Paul_Richard]