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Upper Income Taxpayers become John Galt

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posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 05:25 AM
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The actual title of the story is 'Upper-Income Taxpayers Look for Ways to Sidestep Obama Tax-Hike Plan' but that's too long to put in a thread title.

ABC News


President Barack Obama's tax proposal – which promises to increase taxes for those families with incomes of $250,000 or more -- has some Americans brainstorming ways to decrease their pay, even if it's just by a dollar.

A 63-year-old attorney based in Lafayette, La., who asked not to be named, told ABCNews.com that she plans to cut back on her business to get her annual income under the quarter million mark should the Obama tax plan be passed by Congress and become law. ...

"We are going to try to figure out how to make our income $249,999.00," she said. "We have to find a way out where we can make just what we need to just under the line so we can benefit from Obama's tax plan," she added. "Why kill yourself working if you're going to give it all away to people who aren't working as hard?"


Atlas Shrugged. Who is John Galt?

Here we go. Upper income people can be soaked and robbed just so much before they will say 'enough'. I heard on the TV News that most people with an income of $250,000 are small business owners. If they cut back and refuse to expand in order to keep their income under $250,000 then that will cause stagnation and even more people will be out of work.

People shouldn't be penalized because they are more productive or because they are smarter investors. That shouldn't be an excuse to rob them. (and no, we are definately NOT in that income bracket, so on one go there)

I'm sure there are more people out there like the woman in the article.





[edit on 3/3/2009 by FlyersFan]




posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 06:44 AM
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Ah, socialism! Gotta love it!

all hail comrade obama!



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 07:14 AM
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But don't you understand, FF...there are people who need!

And what is higher than serving your fellow man?



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 07:28 AM
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This picture was taken at one of the recent protests. The 'tea parties'.

The people who make money and who in turn create jobs through that money made, are going to stop. They will say 'enough is enough' and they will not be slaves to the state. They will stop handing their hard earned money to freeloaders.



[edit on 3/3/2009 by FlyersFan]



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 07:55 AM
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As usual most of the families that make that 250,000 is people that have combined income.

They are by not means rich or wealthy they are just in the higher income bracket that the IRS has set up to differentiate how taxes are to be collected.

Sad but truth.

To me a person that makes half a million dollar a year and up will be considered upper income earners.

Now no only they government or the IRS is going after them but the morons think that converting the FED and The Treasury department into lending facilities is going to fix the problem of the credit freeze.

We the regular people that are under the 250,000 income bracket will be depending for our lending needs in the corrupted entity call the Federal reserve.

That is creating nothing more and a wealth fare state. People have no clue of what our nation is becoming.

The Fed will only lend to people with clean records of credit worth, so that ensure that that sector that is still working and keeping their bills up to day before getting into trouble will be owned by them.

The rest of the nation about 50% of Americans already in trouble because economic distress will have to wait in the lines of bread kitchen to survive as they are not worthy of The new Federal Reserve role that the morons in Washington are giving them.

This ideas are wrong, socialist and will make America look less attractive to investors around the world.

Why people doesn't wake up and see what is going on is beyond me.

First people failed to see the crap coming from the Republicans in power now the worship the crap coming from the Democrat in power.

They are all sleeping in the same bed with the same power, The corrupted Federal reserve banks.

I will just sit with my cup of coffee and watch the nation reach the lowers levels ever because the apathy of we the citizens and our ability to fight what is been done to us.

One more thing if you have good credit and have a reliable local bank by all means stay away from the new entity that is been form by the powers behind the Federal Reserve and stick with your local banks do not become a slave to this new entity.


[edit on 3-3-2009 by marg6043]



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 08:03 AM
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The most succinct way I can put this is:

When jelousy and hatred towards the rich becomes more prevalent than aspiration and yearning, a nation will go backwards.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 08:20 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 

Like some posters have alluded to you can divide up your income
in various ways to dodge the bullet.

If you file jointly, switch to separate filing.

If you own a business all your family members just became
employees paid just under the limit.

I imagine there will be a an uptick in donations to the better
tax reform groups too.

I also imagine ppl will push all their deductions and write offs to the limit.

For those who have a family business I could see where breaking
it into two companies might even become an option to dogde the
bullet.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 08:38 AM
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Yea cry me a river.


Course those of us that will never hope to make $250,000.00 should be forced to pay the brunt of the tax burden eh? I doubt that Obama's tax plan will go anywhere. Those that make well above the 250K mark have lobbyists that can work to derail any such proposal.

Course makes me want to scream "NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!" In this country only the rich and powerful are able to sway our representatives. The rest of us have no representatives in Washington. Therefore no person that makes less than 250K should have to pay any form of taxes.

There are those that state that some poor don't pay taxes. This is simply not true. Unless you have no job whatsoever, you pay taxes. You may get a portion of your tax money back in a refund. But you do have a tax burden to pay.

It's also my opinion that the more that you make the less you actually do. So the rich want to ensure a nice little corporate loophole for themselves to ensure that they don't have to pay income tax, while the poor ditch digger will have to shoulder the brunt of the tax burden. Nice!

What makes me violently ill is the fact that in this country the rich have so much sway with our representatives. But those of us that work our tail ends to the bone, day in and day out, if we write our congressmen or even our president, we get a prefabricated letter in return (if we even get a response at all). This is not representative government.

Nice one corporate America, someone proposes that you pay your share of taxes and the first thing you want to do is hurt an already struggling economy by purposely shrinking the already evaporating GDP.
but damn if your going to let your business go out of business, better line up at the bailout window and get billions in taxpayer money to support yourself. Gotta have that junket in Vegas, or that new private jet.

Course corporate America might go the cult route:


Mr. Burns: Smithers, why haven't I heard of this "The Leader"? He's as rich and wicked as I, but he seems to enjoy tax exempt status!

Smithers: Actually, sir, with our creative book-keeping and corporate loop
holes we only pay three dollars a year.

Mr. Burns: [Shocked] You're right, we're getting screwed!


Freaking rich people piss me off. I'm not talking about those that make just above the quarter million mark, I am talking about those people that make well over a million a year. These are the people really driving this protest. Don't think for one moment that people that make a quarter million a year aren't hard workers. Some people that work hard do deserve the paycheck they get. But what I am ranting at is those that earn those million dollar "bonus" checks. These people, the ones that on one hand slash jobs, get taxpayer bailouts, give themselves huge bonuses, and then have the audacity to complain if their tax burden goes up?

Give me a freaking break!

[edit on 3/3/2009 by whatukno]



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 08:59 AM
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Where can I sign up to make $250K a year so I can bitch about having to pay taxes on it?...I don't believe that the individuals that make this amount of yearly income(and more) would feel it as bad as if they made what I do and paid the taxes I pay.

# 'em...if they have no bread, let them eat cake!



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by whatukno
Freaking rich people piss me off.... what I am ranting at is those that earn those million dollar "bonus" checks.


Still .. it's THEIR money. They shouldn't be forced to pay an extra tax burden just becasue they know how to earn more.

$250,000 a year + earners are usually small business owners.
If you screw them, you screw America.

And the bottom line is this - if you screw the small business owner, productive and the money earners, eventually they will get tired of it and they will take their money elsewhere. Atlas will shrug.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 10:02 AM
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Perhaps there will be a class war.

whatukno et al:

It is not fair for any individual to pay more than anyone else into the same system. Providing that everyone pulls the same direct benefits from the communal system everyone should pay the same in. Someone making $60 an hour and someone making $5 an hour share the same highways, rely on the same military for defense, the same border agents for border protection, the same EPA for environmental protection and share the same President.

The idea that anyone should be required to input more for the same group benefit is the very definition of *unfair*.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by Mainer]



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 10:05 AM
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"Why kill yourself working if you're going to give it all away to people who aren't working as hard?"


And therein lies the problem, the CAUSE of all our economic woes, and if I may be so bold, ALL our woes as a soceity.

Kill yourself indeed, perhaps not literally but we are killing our future with our endless quest for more more more, and as this quote so sadly portrays, greed greed greed.

This what we have come to, that "killing yourself working" has become what we all must strive for, damn the children, damn the envirornment, damn everything but our endless quest for more stuff.

I refuse to kill myself working, I refuse to let society dictate to me what I am worth and what my ultimate goals in life should be.

I pay my taxes for the good of many - then again I'm not greedy and I can't hire an expensive accountant to get out of it either.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by Merigold

....

I pay my taxes for the good of many - then again I'm not greedy and I can't hire an expensive accountant to get out of it either.



Hmmm, I pay my taxes (as little as possible) because I'm forced to, under penalty of interest & penalties, and prison, and possibly being shot at by armed irs agents.
I make $120,000/yr, does that make me greedy? Does that mean I have to support able bodied lazy/stupid people?
I've worked mainly for big corporations and some individuals, neither of which were poor. In short, I've never worked for a poor person.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 10:53 AM
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reply to post by wookiee
 


I guess that's the difference then. I realize that as a society we have obligations for the good of the whole.

The whole encompases poor widows, homelss alcoholics and your local schools. Why should you have to pay to educate other people's kids, hell some of them might be on welfare!

It is our responsibility to help each other, but that's not popular amongst you more conservative, all for me none for you crowd.

Enjoy working to death.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


How freaking illogical are your statements?!

If the rich controlled the elected representatives, then why wouldn't they just force them to lower taxation levels? The truth is the power lies in the hands of the common, poor man due to his vast numbers. Claiming that the rich control everything is just a mental illusion drawn up by your own brain to justify your inferiority... its a lot easier to claim that something is impossible, rather than admitting that you have failed at something which is possible.

So in your opinion, these corporations are all powerful and choose to control their elected officials to pass laws for higher taxes; then run to their accountants to negate the effect of those taxes? Where the hell are you dreaming this stuff up from?

I seriously wish the bailout hadn't gone through. I wish the banks had failed. However the manner in which you have spread the blame over all rich people is idiotic and childish.
What about the entrepreneur who runs 3 dry cleaning stores? What about the inventor who created a cure for a disease? How are these people to blame for the bailout, and more importantly, why do you hate these people?

You hate the rich? Well I hate unfair taxes. I hate having a portion of my income stolen by a government who adds absolutely no value to my life or my career. Everything around me that adds value is done by private corporations, private entities and other citizens. Taxes are the biggest waste of money and the biggest crime EVER.

Whats unfair about everyone paying a flat percentage of their income? Everyone pays, say, 15% of their income. Why must the poor pay 0% and the rich pay 45%?

The current setup, ie progressive taxation make this concept of "the taxpayer" nonsense. YOU didn't pay for the bailout, so stop getting in a twist about it. The rich paid for the bailout, because the rich pay the lion's share of all taxes. Your sense of entitlement is false, because you pay a disproportionately small amount compared to others.

I say the best solution is to end the complicated tax code, and cut back government to a stable level. Let everyone pay 15% tax maximum in order to maintain roads and the military, policing, fire depts etc. I guarantee that all tax evasion would cease overnight. The rich aren't greedy. The rich aren't the ones stealing 45% of a person's income every year. Return to a fair tax code and you will get fairness universally. Continue an unfair system and I'll continue to put my money in Switzerland.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

$250,000 a year + earners are usually small business owners.
If you screw them, you screw America.

And the bottom line is this - if you screw the small business owner, productive and the money earners, eventually they will get tired of it and they will take their money elsewhere. Atlas will shrug.


Then your ire should be directed at the previous administration that was no friend to the small business man. All the tax breaks went to the large corps on top of subsidies.

The small businessmen such as myself got higher fuel costs, inflation of raw material cost and actually more taxes than during Clinton; And a scared middle class that held on to every penny that at one time was semi disposable income for luxuries.

1 year ago I was forced to lay off my employees of 8 years and file Chap 7.
Now I work for the man, my exemployees are unemployed and a one time profitable business that made me and others a comfortable living, no longer exists. Many, many of my contemporaries are facing the same predicament as I and are looking at the Chap 7 route also. This was not Obama's fault.

I have my doubts that Obama can bring back a stable economy given the sack of economic **** he was given. And the American taxpayers won't soon forget that at the voting booth. They know where the blame lies; as evidenced by this last election.


I wish I could shrug and move my money elsewhere, but I have none to move as I am once again living from paycheck to paycheck.








[edit on 3-3-2009 by whaaa]



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by 44soulslayer
 



How freaking illogical are your statements?!


Wukky Logic, sorry you don't understand it.

I would completely agree with a flat tax, or even a VAT tax. I think that would be the most fair and balanced approach to the tax issue.



You hate the rich? Well I hate unfair taxes. I hate having a portion of my income stolen by a government who adds absolutely no value to my life or my career. Everything around me that adds value is done by private corporations, private entities and other citizens. Taxes are the biggest waste of money and the biggest crime EVER.


Yes I do hate the rich.

The government adds nothing to your life? Are you somehow able to exclusively drive on private roads? Do you somehow have private police and fire departments? Interesting.

Lobbyists control this government, large corporate lobby groups steer this government. Individuals have absolutely no say in this government. I have yet to get a letter from any representative that wasn't a pre generated form letter printed out by some secretary and rubber stamped with that reps signature.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


You certainly have the right to rail against the capitalist machine and against the successful in our society, but it is a waste of your time and serves no purpose but to perhaps make you feel better.

The fact of the matter is that those who have worked and earned a substatial amount of money are the folks footing the bill for the country. Over 50% of the people in this country pay no taxes. Why should they have the same voice as someone who is sending hundreds of thousands of dollars to the government for services (other than the military) that they use.

I have received large bonuses in the past and have paid an enormous amount of money in taxes. In the millions of dollars. What do I get for it? Welfare that incents folks not to work? Subsidies for mega farmers? Earmarks for bee hives and peanut farms? It is a bunch of nonesense and I'm not going to do it anymore. I quit my job, took my money off the table and moved my family to Europe. I won't work under an Obama administration or any soclialist regime. I WILL take my earned income tax credit, now that I'm not working. I will suck every benefit I can from the government that I have worked my butt off to support. I won't give a thing back. I did not plan to retire in my early 40's, but that is what I'm going to do. I'm tired of working 16 hours a day to put food in someone else's pantry, see greater waste come out of the government and have folks rail about people like me and consider me the enemy.

And before you consider me some "silver spoon" person, I have had a job and sometimes two since I was 12 years old. I worked to put myself through college and took jobs that for extended periods required me to not only work 15-16 hours a day, but to be on call 24/7/365. You might consider me one of the bad guys out there, and I am not suggesting that you or the ditch digger don't work hard. But the fact of the matter is that we are all governed by the choices we make and if you made the easy choices and are now not satisfied with the quality of your life due to those choices that is your business and you're own fault.

Best of luck to you,

Ciao



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 11:54 AM
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"Why kill yourself working if you're going to give it all away to people who aren't working as hard?"

That is not as true as it sounds. Taxes go to the gov't. They decide how to spend it. And they aren't exactly giving it away to the lower class.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 11:58 AM
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Actually Js, taxes collected during your working year goes to shady private accounts to collect interest, then when tax time comes the government gets a check from those banks and then they used that money whatever way they can.

The interest goes to private hands, because so far neither you or any body I know has been given a tax return with the interest earned of the taxes they pay.


[edit on 3-3-2009 by marg6043]



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