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Madoff seeks to keep NYC penthouse, $62M in assets

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posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 12:08 AM
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Monday March 2, 11:59 pm ET Madoff seeks to keep NYC penthouse and $62M in bonds and cash, saying they belong to his wife NEW YORK (AP) -- Bernard Madoff is seeking to keep a $7 million Manhattan penthouse and an additional $62 million in assets, saying they are unrelated to the fraud that authorities say cost victims more than $50 billion. In court papers filed Monday in U.S. District Court in Manhattan, Madoff and his lawyer claim the apartment, $45 million in municipal bonds and $17 million more in a separate account all belong to Madoff's wife, Ruth. (snip)


biz.yahoo.com...

I hate madoff but then again, the people he cheated are rich people so who cares.?




posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by Make Speed Limit 45
 


One would think that any one of those people would be willing to give up a few hundred thousand a year for scholarships and things...
But, nah.

He cost people $50 billion? Well clearly that much money makes him look dirt poor.
I mean, you could bailout another company with $50 billion. $62 million is hardly enough for a man to live comfortably.




posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 12:15 AM
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I heard he was laundering money for the Russian mafia and stole $millions from them. As soon as he leaves that Penthouse, he's as good as gone.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 12:29 AM
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I'm not advocate of confiscating peoples property, but they do it to drug dealers, so I don't see why he should be any different.

A lot of charities got wiped out because of his fraudulent dealings.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 12:35 AM
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reply to post by Hastobemoretolife
 


Well, generally speaking, if your goods are the product of fraud (which is a crime) or theft, technically, they are not your goods. Which is why I think that unless it can be proven that his wife got them before they married on her own, they should be confiscated. If he just gave them to her to hide them, I say take them back.

I actually think it is worse that we take peoples property just because it was used "in" a crime. (a house with some illegal thing inside of it, or a car used to go purchase some illegal thing.) The house and car themselves are not purchased with stolen money, so why they should be allowed to be seized is beyond me.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 12:46 AM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


I completely agree with you.

I don't agree with it at all, unless as you said it was used in a crime.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 12:49 AM
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reply to post by Make Speed Limit 45
 


A crime is a crime, regardless of who the victims are.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 04:00 AM
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Originally posted by Make Speed Limit 45


I hate madoff but then again, the people he cheated are rich people so who cares.?


Yes he did but he also cheated a lot of foundations and non-profit organizations.
This idiot should lose everything, even his stupid smirk.
Let him run around Central Park and we'll see how much he lasts alive.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 04:57 AM
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Only in America....

This effing guy is really something. If it was you or I we would be in jail not a penthouse apt. Our assets would have been drained and distributed to the people that we screwed.

The rich get treated differently...end of story. His lawyers will tie this up for years in our stupid, broken legal system. I'll even go so far as to say that he will in fact get to keep what he is asking for.

Only in America.

Agreeing with Haika, I too would love to smack that stupid grin right off of his smug face.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 10:27 AM
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A lot of charities got wiped out because of his fraudulent dealings.


Charities are rackets.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 10:37 AM
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madoff is claiming that money is his wife's money. she pulled millions out just before he admitted his crimes.

she's clearly complicit and, my guess, is that he's trying to cut deals and keep some money to pay off the following criminal elements.

1. italian mafia - I've said this before but I think Frank Dipiscali is his connection to the mob. Frank and Jaffe, his VP cat CoMad.
2. Russian Mob. The russian money was not part of the scam operation. No, madoff took investments from them. Thus, the woman who put them into madoff accounts is "missing" and they want their money.
3. South American Drug Cartels. I heard this rumor from a friend who was working inside the firm. He was in a legitimate arm of the trading business and he said that he heard, after the scam was unmasked, that Madoff was a money laundering site for one or more of the drug cartels and he has stolen their money too.

he's a marked man and that is why he is in his apartment with 24 hour security instead of a cell.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 12:04 PM
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Originally posted by Crakeur
madoff is claiming that money is his wife's money. she pulled millions out just before he admitted his crimes.



If she pulled it out just before the whole thing fell apart, I dont think she will have a leg to stand on in terms of keeping it. After all, they are making innocent investors, ( those not in on the scam) return their profits.

www.msnbc.msn.com...


Sheehan told the assembled investors the trustee’s office will be trying to recover “false profits” earned by some investors.

“There wasn’t any stock bought or sold,” Sheehan said. “It was all just made up. ... You got somebody else’s money.”


If he took money from the mafia as you say, I can see why he might want to hang on to the apartment for his own safety. But, too bad, so sad. The natural consequence of his actions is that people may want to off his greedy little self.

I just dont understand how he thought he was going to get away with it? He never bought stock at all, what could he have thought was going to happen?



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 12:05 PM
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Public hanging or shotgun to face for a closed casket funeral. There is no justice in this country anymore.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


I think she pulled 11 or so million out in the weeks prior to his confession.

the investors will be subject to the clawback rules. 6 years of money taken out can be requested, provided the investors took more than they put in.

here's where an issue arises. The IRS allows taxpayers three years to amend a return. so, investors will go and refile 05-07 and get back taxes paid on the money they didn't actually earn. There are some small loopholes that say that you can go farther back in certain situations. Well, if the investors have to give back 6 years of spent money, the IRS might wind up in a position of allowing the other 3 years to be amended.

this is a mess of epic proportions for everyone involved. Madoff is probably sleeping like a baby now that he no longer has this failing scam hanging over his head. Everyone else, from the bilked investors, the gov't watchdogs that were doing nothing, the employees who are out of work, etc, are suffering.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 12:31 PM
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Originally posted by Crakeur
Everyone else, from the bilked investors, the gov't watchdogs that were doing nothing, the employees who are out of work, etc, are suffering.


Isnt that the truth. Time magazine just had a good article on the former head of the SEC.

www.time.com...


Eventually, enforcers at the SEC grew demoralized. One by one, key officials left the agency; Aguirre was fired under Cox. Sensitive cases seemed to lag. Cox has admitted that his staff brushed off "credible and specific" reports of fraud committed by Madoff over the past 10 years and did not seek subpoena power or bring tips to the attention of commissioners. Although 2008 saw the second highest number of enforcement actions in the agency's history, many involved smaller cases, as the value of penalties dropped. Critics say the SEC wanted to avoid upsetting the powerful securities industry.


Madoff should not have been allowed to do what he did had the system been working properly. At least not for as long as he did it.

Americans will be sorting through the rubble for decades.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


SEC employees make very little money. Their goal is to one day work for the people they are supposed to be watching. So, doing their job as it is meant to be done is not in their best interest. They want to make their contacts, get their resume padded with SEC experience for a few years and then they can contact the guys they should be investigating and say "hey, former SEC guy here, I used to investigate you guys and I'd like to move forward in my career, know of anyone hiring?"

instant salary increase.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 12:51 PM
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The revolving door. Yes, I agree there are many like that. But as this article points out, there were many who were ethical that either left or were fired.

My original major, which I changed in my senior year, was business. Accounting and finance. I left because I could see the writing on the wall, the way GAP was being amended laid the foundation for this whole crisis. (and the Enron scandal as well) I didnt want to make money doing things I thought were dirty and unethical. And there are people who feel that way in any organization. In many agencies like the SEC (or any government agency) you have people who genuinely do care and want to do a good job, but generally they are marginalized by the revolving door sorts you mention.

When you get a dirty boss, like Cox, they get driven all the way out the door. We just need to decide as a culture what matters most to us, the almighty dollar or character. Currently, our system is set up in such a way that character doesnt matter. Money talks, and ethics walk. We need to change that from the bottom up, with each of us taking a more ethical approach to everything in our lives.

Policies, behavior and wealth dont trickle down. They trickle up. They always have. We have this sort of problem at the higher levels because all of us have grown more accepting of "anything for a buck." Its going to cost us big time now in terms of suffering, as you noted, while we lose jobs, houses, and pay the bill for the bailouts.

But we arent all truly innocent. We need to take a stronger stand against "the way it is" in our personal lives. And let it trickle up. You do make less money in the short run being ethical. But the money you make you are more likely to keep and it is less likely to result in a collapse of a whole system. We need to be willing to delay gratification in the short run for a better long term outcome.



[edit on 3-3-2009 by Illusionsaregrander]



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 01:12 PM
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Here is a question was Madoff envolved with the Federal Reserve in any way with his Giant ponzi scheme? How many politicians were envolved in this giant ponzi scheme and if so how much money did they make and if so were they keeping quiet?

How is Madoff's ponzi scheme different in the way the U.S. Government is handling the Social Security fund?



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 01:27 PM
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I think it became blatantly apparent this scumbag has protection in high places as soon as he was arrested.
This guy has the stuff that could probably bring down a government and put many people behind bars. Why else would he be given the kid-glove treatment after being allowed to operate for so many years - even after the SEC were approached multiple times about his scam.

Just a theory but I think his protectors likely span both parties at very high levels, hence neither one rushing to put him away and allowing him to almost dictate plea deals. Maybe a lot of campaign donations (backhanders) came from funds that trace back to Madoff's little scheme?

Whatever is going on, I think there is a helluva lot more here than a simple large scale Ponzi scheme.



posted on Mar, 3 2009 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
there were many who were ethical that either left or were fired.

there always will be. someone was protecting him for years. I'm guessing more than one person was helping him. either via direct payoff or inadvertanly with liaisons with Shaina or someone else from Madoff's camp,


Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
My original major, which I changed in my senior year, was business. ..... I didnt want to make money doing things I thought were dirty and unethical.

shame, we're hiring but we don't want a killjoy

yes, I'm kidding.


Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander In many agencies like the SEC (or any government agency) you have people who genuinely do care and want to do a good job, but generally they are marginalized by the revolving door sorts you mention.


at the end of the day, the issue becomes money. my brother in law worked at the US attorney's office. He had moved as far up the ladder as you can without needing to be elected or appointed. He loved putting mid-level mobsters away. He loved doing good for the community. He has a wife who left her successful law career when her first child was born. he wanted more for his family. number 2 was born, number one diagnosed with diabetes at age 3. He needed more for his family. so he left.

he would prefer doing what he was doing but the pay sucks. it makes the playing field uneven. the good ones want more. be it more money or more power and either one results in them not practicing their craft in the manner that they should. the SEC is no different.



Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
When you get a dirty boss, like Cox, they get driven all the way out the door. We just need to decide as a culture what matters most to us, the almighty dollar or character.


or they learn that everyone is corrupt, right on up to the top where the guy who created the exchange you monitor is a scammer of epic proportions.

once you realize that you can never win, it must be a tad easier to look the other way. If not, you leave for greener pastures.



Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
But we arent all truly innocent. We need to take a stronger stand against "the way it is" in our personal lives.

everyone's to blame here. well, almost everyone. pers
onally, I feel like everyone owes me an apology but I'm not going to hold my breath.




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