Vegetarianism - Good or bad

1) When I was a vegetarian I was anemic. So, primarily, I personally can't.

But my real arguments (aside from meat being delicious) are:

2) We are omnivores. We have the teeth that are specialized for eating meat. To have a balanced natural diet, we should eat both.

3) Animals who are omnivores or carnivores eat meat. You don't see PETA and activists trying to get lions to stop eating zebras or gazelle.

4) Plants are living, respiring, reproducing organisms, too. But for some reason they have no rights. And invertebrates have no rights in most of the scientific world, you can dissect them and experiment on them however you want. So do flowers vs lobsters vs fish have rights? It's stupid, to me. They all do. But we have to eat something.

I was also vegetarian for a few years. Doing the combining of grains/rices, etc, trying to get a 'whole' protein.

I gained 50 pounds and ended up anemic. It was weird. And my blood sugar wouldn't remain stable.

My naturopath basically forced me back to a meat diet, and I eat a very high protein diet. I try to keep it at least Kosher..

I've lost the 50 pounds +, my hair and nails are lush and healthy, my skin is clear and I have so much energy it's annoying. My blood sugar is stable and I eat far less now than I did on the veg diet.

My brain no longer functions in a fog and my reflexes are quicker now (15 years later) than they were when I was in my 20's. I'm 38 but I've been mistaken for 10 years younger quite consistently.

If I eat fruits/vegetables, they are mostly the green stuff (no carrots, potatoes, beets, or sugar-based stuff, no apples, no bananas, no oranges), and berries.

Blood type O in case anyone cares.

Interesting tidbit I've heard. If you're ever lost in a strange land, don't eat the plants as they might be toxic.

I am personally a Vegetarian, and I have never felt better since I made the switch.

Granted, I do take supplements every day to make up for the mineral and vitamin loss as I don't have oodles of time to plan my eating schedule for every single meal, every single day, to guarantee that I get them by eating.

I take a B Complex, Iron (Which is a MUST for vegetarians - I sleep for DAYZ when I don't take it - seriously 12 hours at a time, it's brutal), Multivitamin, Flaxseed & Omega 3 Complex, Echinacea, Green Tea, Apple Cider Vinegar, and Vitamin A once in a blue moon.

When I made the switch, I had lost about 10 pounds off the bat - I'm a small girl, I don't need to lose weight - but it was a healthy loss. It was fat in places I didn't even know I had it, and mainly around my stomach is where I felt the lightest.

Then, came Christmas and the temptation of cookies. Still working on the last 5 pounds

It depends on you personally. I made the switch the Vegetarianism because I am paranoid about the crap they shove into the meat these days and pass it off as being good for you. I'm paranoid about the growth hormones, and I'm paranoid about the improper handling of meat. I didn't do it for any other reason.

- Lysteria
- Mad Cow
- The Pig Farm (near Vancouver BC)
- And most recently - this bird flu

As for Animal Testing:

- Over 97% of the animals used by humans are used in the food chain. Fewer than 0.3% of the animals used by humans are used for biomedical research, teaching and testing.
- Currently, over 94% of the animals used in research are fish, rodents and birds. These animals breed rapidly and are inexpensive to feed and house. Scientists also know a lot about these animals... in some cases more than they know about humans! Only 1 to 1.5% of animals used in medical research are dogs or cats, and fewer than 0.5% are primates.

Source
* Bolding my emphasis
* Canadian Stats


As Skeppy pointed out on page 1 - the debate between Orange Light and Heike is excellent in terms of arguments for each side.


- Carrot



[edit on 3/22/2009 by CA_Orot]

Originally posted by adrenochrome
i have a question for those that have switched to vegetarianism - have you noticed any difference in your dreaming abilities?? like, have you dreamed more, or less?

are you dreams different in any way?? for example, when i stopped drinking iced tea, which contains lots of fluoride apparently, i began to not only remember my dreams better, but they were also much more vivid and more "movie-like"...

i've heard that meat affects the pineal gland somewhat, and am considering going vegetarian for a month as an experiment for dreaming...

I don't know about the pineal gland or '___' production, but my dreams are as vivid as can be. Unreal. I usually have some ability to push for a desired result in my dreams; being lucid. I don't think that its necessarily attributed to veganism, but probably just the quality of food I consume. I don't buy into meat being an evil thing, but the horomones and preservatives probably have a lot to do with all brain and body function.

reply to post by kidflash2008


"Overpopulation" is an incredibly hard term for me to swallow considering its not the human's habitat being invaded and transformed, but the other. It's the droves of worthless people who are guilty of unbridled and reckless breeding. A real tragedy in which the natural order of "the strongest thrive" is circumvented by birthrights.

I didn't mean to rant.

I also originally replied to tell you that I've been impressed with your posts for the most part, with the exception of the one I replied to. Its refreshing to hear a non-vegan not take it upon themselves to insist what we "must" eat or supplement.

To each their own. No exceptions. You honor that and that I respect.

To be honest, it's not the eating of animals that bothers me so much as how they are treated. I understand that not everyone is going to believe as I do, but if we are going to use them then at the very least they should be treated with respect.

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues


I try to keep it real in my responses. I think of them before I post, and that is a good thing as when I reply in anger, the ideas get lost. I also have been to a nutritionist in the VA, and they will get a good diet for anyone. They also try to get people to eat less meat and more veggies. It is much healthier for them and their colons!

Thank you for your kind comments.

reply to post by Bosko


While treatment of animals bred for food has gotten better, there is always room for improvement. I try to buy free range poultry when I get the chance. It usually doesn't say on the turkey franks or bologna that I buy if they were free range (I have cut down on red meat because of colon cancer running in the family).

here another 0 blood type vegetarian. as in i refuse to chew and swallow bits of most dead animals, especially big animals, because i simply can't find any joyful sensation in that. i eat milkbeased products and eggs though and during my twenties (during an eating disorder actually lol) i started eating some seafood as well. i can't have much of that because it'll disgust me soon, the texture, taste and all but i must say i have learned from eating seafood and fish how it gives extra energy that does have a unique "earthly" quality to it. i also knew of people who would eat meat after their mushroom or simliar trips for spiritual grounding. makes sense to me. i am feeling good in my body, no allergies or nutritional defencies i'd know of though i have no clue what a doctor would say. i don't live particularily healthy, too much cigarettes and coffee and sugar but otherwise i let my body decide what it's craving for and actually as long as there is lots of vegetables involved, cooked and raw, i am perfectly happy and well. i believe listening to the body's needs is the healthiest way. and that the body also reflects spiritual needs.
my husband is a real meat eater and i don't mind it at all, he needs it i believe and i know he can kill to eat as well. there is a notable difference in our personalities , he is the type of guy who enjoys fantasies of violence and i am all for peacful experiences. well, he also doesn't regard animals and plants as simliar to human creatures of god as i do, he's catholic i am not btw. i sometimes wish he'd shift his focus just for a moment, just enough to get a better idea how life can be percieved as well. but it can't be forced onto anyone. who knows, being together probably makes us learn about eachothers points of view, which i somehow believe are both valid in their own regard.
my mom is a 0 blood type as well btw and she believes in more meat less grains is good for her, but then again she also has allergies and intolerances, which unfortunaltey she believes in too. maybe i am spared because i don't make myself crazy with that and instead practice optimism a lot ...

oh, i remember this bit about B12 vitamine, that bakteria in the mouth produce it as well which is a reason for some vegan monks to not brush their teeth too often ^^ ... can't remember where i heard that.

Originally posted by MrVertigo

I find it interesting that I started seriously researching alternative topics & spirituality a few months after i became a vegetarian.
Whether there's a connection is impossible to say, but I know that a lot of people talk about how a vegetarian diet raises your vibration.

My advice would be to give it a try for a week or two & see how you like it.

That's what I did & after two weeks I tried to eat some chicken & couldn't get it down - so I figured why bother

I am new here, so forgive me if I did not quote you right. This struck me! I too have begun researching spirituality, even alternative things such as crystals and astrology. I have been a vegetarian for about 5 months now, doing great! Lost almost 30lbs so far...and didn't do anything but quit eating meat. I stopped eating meat mainly for ethical reasons. I just couldn't do it anymore. I too feel better than ever; only the jealousy from my fellow females is getting annoying. One even suggested I was doing drugs to lose my weight, when I had not even been trying to lose it at all...and drugs are never in my life.
But yes...we need to research this whole idea. If anyone else has had this happen to them, let us know! Share your experience.
-FCL

The poster who asked about dreams- As a vegetarian, I do have very real dreams and astral travels-My psychic ability grew stronger on all levels and abilities actually.

Originally posted by juniperberry
I was also vegetarian for a few years. Doing the combining of grains/rices, etc, trying to get a 'whole' protein.

I gained 50 pounds and ended up anemic. It was weird. And my blood sugar wouldn't remain stable.

My naturopath basically forced me back to a meat diet, and I eat a very high protein diet. I try to keep it at least Kosher..

I've lost the 50 pounds +, my hair and nails are lush and healthy, my skin is clear and I have so much energy it's annoying. My blood sugar is stable and I eat far less now than I did on the veg diet.

My brain no longer functions in a fog and my reflexes are quicker now (15 years later) than they were when I was in my 20's. I'm 38 but I've been mistaken for 10 years younger quite consistently.

If I eat fruits/vegetables, they are mostly the green stuff (no carrots, potatoes, beets, or sugar-based stuff, no apples, no bananas, no oranges), and berries.

Blood type O in case anyone cares.

Interesting tidbit I've heard. If you're ever lost in a strange land, don't eat the plants as they might be toxic.

It is always good to hear that people understand the benifits of becoming vegetarian and want to try it out.What happened to you, becoming heavier and enemic is not uncommon. It is an unfortunate outcome of not being aware of the foods available and which facts out there are truth vs myths. It is in no way your fault or anyone's of course. Most of us grow up in a culture that not only eats meat but elevates its status to somewhat a 'superior' food source. It is extremely difficult to change a lifestyle from tha which we were raised upon. Learning how to eat healthy is also not just a vegetarian problem but one within th emainstream meat eating societies as well.
The reason you probably found yourself to gain weight was when meat is taken away people do not kno wwhat to replace it with. This means that a 'substance' that was really filling is now gone and our instinct instead is to pile more carbs on our plates to make up for this. Extra noodles, extra rice, extra fries, or just having too many meals a day that contain breads and other unneeded carbs or fatty foods ( For example:I found it difficult to not eat too many cheese/pizza-which was fattening when I first became vegetarian. Once a month is better than once a week , right? ).

Unfortunately the myth about 'whole' proteins being given through grains is a myth that spread to doctors. Many doctors still practice and teach this not knowing that the information has been reetracted. Here is one link for more information - www.celebritydietdoctor.com...

I wouldn't trust doctors to give me nutritional advice though, as each doctor has a scope of practice and nutrition may not be theirs. I have met with dieticians and such who seem to have a much better grasp of the vegetarian reality. I have also been to naturalpaths- Each have their own agendas and beliefs and such.


It sounds as though you also have a blood sugar problem which it is good not to eat vegetables high in sugar and fruits. This would indeed make a vegetarian lifestyle a challenge-not impossible, but a challenge. You would really have to stick to the vegetables you eat now and probably would have to discover more low in sugar.

My educated opinion would be that you accidentally ate too much grains, carbs, and fatty foods to make up for the lack of substance, ate too much fruit or veges high in sugar-(You were unaware of your needs so did not accomodate for this), and possible were unaware of high protein foods that were not meat- b.c you were following the rice/grain-bean myth. Once back on a meat diet, it would be better for you because your culture is used to meat and it is easier to manage something that is mainstream. You could possibly get the same effects had you known how to keep to a healthy vegetarian diet- personalized for your needs. This is not your fault at all and you should always stay with what you are comfortable with.


For those who wish to know some good foods to eat try :
eggplant
tofu- 9 grams aprox
hemp seeds-www.coolhemp.com... aprox 11 grams per serving

pumpkin seeds- 11 grams per serving
eggs- 6 grams
-Have a piece of cheese of a bit of peanut butter on a celery stick or some bread- Don't over do it but this is still a good source of protein.

cheese- aprox 7 grams per ounce.

Peanut butter and jelly sandwhich- 5 g. aprox
-cereal with milk- both cereal and milk provide a good source. Just be sure to buy 0% milk or some low number and don't drink it all day of course. Oatmeal= about 10 grams per cup. milk- 8 grams aprox.


On average (though it helps to calculate the exact amount your body will need) a person needs 40 grams of protein a day.


How much is a serving?

www.goaskalice.columbia.edu...


So by eating breakfast, a small bowl of cereal with a hard boiled egg- you've already reached aprox 20 grams give or take.

For those who need extra protein, they will have to snack on healthy things through out the day.

Just some thoughts. I hope they are helpful for those who wish to understand more.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by Zerra]

I tried it and failed. My blood sugar kept spiking (pre-diabetic) and Dr. finally told me to cut it out or I would have to start using insulin.

A lot of products locally are based on soy. I found that I was highly allergic to this. If I drank soy milk I would get a fever, break out into hives, blurry vision, and have stomach upset.

I do eat meat now but, on a limited basis.

I'm breaking one of my own rules, I'm posting without reading the whole thread.

Here goes: Go to a health food store and pull five or six vegetarian cookbooks off the shelf. Next: put them on the counter face down. Next: Look at the photos of the authors on the back of the book. Next: Choose the book that has an author that doesn't look like they should be in the emergency room.

Doing so you'll see that the only type of vegetarianism? would be the versions that include fish, eggs and cheese.

Just my two cents,

STM

Note: I've actually done this before and wow the clerk was angry when I told him how I was choosing; he thought all forms were perfect.

[edit on 2/18/2010 by seentoomuch]

Originally posted by seentoomuch
I'm breaking one of my own rules, I'm posting without reading the whole thread.

Here goes: Go to a health food store and pull five or six vegetarian cookbooks off the shelf. Next: put them on the counter face down. Next: Look at the photos of the authors on the back of the book. Next: Choose the book that has an author that doesn't look like they should be in the emergency room.

Doing so you'll see that the only type of vegetarianism? would be the versions that include fish, eggs and cheese.

Just my two cents,

STM

Note: I've actually done this before and wow the clerk was angry when I told him how I was choosing. He thought all forms were perfect.

[edit on 2/18/2010 by seentoomuch]

I wouldn't think it to be logical or correct from an educational standpoint to judge a few authors body types without knowing their level of exercise, nutrition, genetic factors, age etc and then prove that fish is needed in their diet. For example, my mom has always been petite and extremely slim.She had no body until she hot menopause-when there was weight gain. She ate meat and this was just her genetic predisposition. Just as there are overweight people who eat healthy too.

I don't eat fish and I went vegetarian about 5 years ago. I am the same weight I was when I ate meat. I maintain my health by eating correctly and educating myself on what foods are the best and which to stay away from. As I said earlier, this lifestyle choice is not one for the lazy-It is hard to maintain in a culture that uses meat as a priority.

That being said. There is no such thing as a fish eating vegetarian. This is a myth popularized by those who don't know the animal taxonomy. A fish is an animal. They would be classified as pescatarians.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by Zerra]

I wasn't looking at overall body weight, I was looking at their faces. The majority had very dark circles under their eyes, and their face was sunken with a gray cast.

STM

[edit on 2/18/2010 by seentoomuch]

Originally posted by toochaos4u
I tried it and failed. My blood sugar kept spiking (pre-diabetic) and Dr. finally told me to cut it out or I would have to start using insulin.

A lot of products locally are based on soy. I found that I was highly allergic to this. If I drank soy milk I would get a fever, break out into hives, blurry vision, and have stomach upset.

I do eat meat now but, on a limited basis.

Was the spike in sugar due to substatuting extra fruits and extra high in sugar veges while meat was missing?

I find that to be the most common reason. I would recommend that people have a large amount of vegetables and in your case a kind that is low in sugar, and only one fruit a day. This should actually be the exact same whether one eats meat or not- the serving of veges should be higher than the meat content that day to stay healthy. So once eating right with meat-one just needs to take meat away and substitute tofu, eggs, . I sometimes make soup to have on the side-liquad is always filling. I also noticed in most bulk barns there is available chili mix for vegetarians.


Always do what you are most comfy with and only change a diet if you know you can stay healthy on it.

[edit on 18-2-2010 by Zerra]

reply to post by Zerra


I thought that regular un-aged tofu has been found to cause cancer. Aren't people supposed to eat fermented tofu and not the regular stuff on the shelves such as soy milk and the regular cooking tofu? Linda McCartney comes to mind if you are proposing just good ol' soy is good for you.

STM

Originally posted by seentoomuch
I wasn't looking at overall body weight, I was looking at their faces. The majority had very dark circles under their eyes, and their face was sunken with a gray cast.

STM

[edit on 2/18/2010 by seentoomuch]

We cannot prove 2 things though:

That they followa true vegetarian lifestyle-Maybe they just want to make a buck and do not eat their own recipes...

Or

That this look is due to diet. I get black under my eyes from staying up all night cramming for tests and photos can also have some bad light and shadows. A correlation isn't necessarily a causation.

lol, heck, if you want to see my looks I can always u2u a pic- and you can tell me if my face is looking horrible -I have been vegetarian a while

Now if you meant Vegan cook books-I really can't comment. Vegetarians get cheese and eggs.