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Vegetarianism - Good or bad

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posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 05:31 AM
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PRO: I'm eating what I want to maintain a fantastic health.

CON: People who would normally not give two figs about my health all of a sudden feel the need to debate when they suspect I'm a vegetarian.

Get over it people. If youre not a vegetarian...fine. I dont "grill" you on why you eat flesh. Let me eat my leafy greens and legumes in peace!




posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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reply to post by Raud
 


The argument has nothing to do with the afterlife, but enjoying life. If someone likes being a vegan, more power to them. I am stating to the others so worried about diets that they do not enjoy food or even life. I also believe in modesty, as I do not eat meat every day. I love broccoli and cauliflower and most other veggies. I also enjoy a greasy bacon cheeseburger. I like a variety of foods, and since I have a handicap, I do not get to enjoy much.

I too, am against pollution, and to state that I am against Mother Earth because I eat meat is illogical. The animals are raised for food. The environment does need protecting, but to end all meat production would create more problems than solve. I would also buy venison from a deer hunter, and use that meat for my cheeseburgers (I guess you are opposed to hunting and would prefer the overpopulated deer just starve to death). Man is an omnivore, and always was one.

You can call me selfish all you want, as I will eat what I enjoy and not feel guilty about it.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by BeaSharpe
 


No one attacks vegans, it is usually the other way around. I do not know of a PETA type organization for meat eaters. I also do not get grief from meat eaters like I do from some vegans.

If there are people who give you a hard time because of your diet, then shame on them. I respect you for what you eat and like, and if you were a guest in my home would make sure to accommodate your and anyone else' dietary needs.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by Anti - Government
 


Vegan for 3 years, vegetarian for 7 or so. Not that it's a matter of any sort, but I'm a non vitamin taking wannabe raw foody. My lean muscle mass is incredible, my strength is at a noticeable increase when I am climbing or biking, and my stamina is far beyond my limits as a vegetarian.

I love it. I feel great. My abnormal sleeping habits were normalized, my focus is unwaivering, my body fat is non existent, my anxiety is gone, my memory works at an alarming efficiency, my senses (most bizarre thing) are so acute that it is scary.

It's like, the more raw I go, the better my body performs, as I am always testing its limits.

I did this for political, ethical, moral, and health reasons.

As much as I am open to the diet decisions of other people, or the lack of concern or fervor of imposing my views on other people rather, there is no turning back for me. I couldn't...

In my own life, everytime I've defied that inner drive, push, or pull, its been regretful to say the least.

"trusting your gut," is no bull#.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by kidflash2008
 


Remember it's the vocal minority that gets all the attention. You've probably walked right past thousands of vegetarians or vegans without even knowing it, because most don't advertise it. If you saw me walking on the street, the last thing you would guess is that I'm a vegetarian. In my experience, things are the opposite of what you've experienced. I've had people want to fight me just for saying I'm a vegetarian. It has gotten to the point where I just don't tell anyone anymore because I don't want to get crap for it. Luckily I'm 6'5" and pretty big so no one has fought me yet, but it's been close a number of times. And all that was from just mentioning that I'm a vegetarian.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 05:37 AM
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reply to post by kidflash2008
 


Hehe, don't take it so hard man!
You go on, eat what you want.

Seems like I hit a sore spot there... Did not intend to.
This is OT anyhow.

Peace out!



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 06:53 AM
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Originally posted by Raud

I liked your Pro list very much!!


Pro's:
1) Better for the enviroment....absolutely
2) Healthier....of course
3) Cheaper!....usually, unless you shop and Marks and Spencer!
4) Ethics apply....definitely
5) Shopping much easier (limited selection)....not sure...good veg can be hard to get, and if you want soemthing exotic, you might have a problem.
6) Awareness of nuitrition facts....education is the key for sure.
7) Rising interest in growing own crops...check...we've just stared on a half acre of garden. the crop will be unbelievable.
8) New inspiration in the kitchen...have you seen my cookbook collection?!
9) Spiritual enrichment (if into such)....mostly under rated and undervalued, but vital.


However....I'm all opinionated about this stuff....

Con's
1) Total vegan life style might weaken one's physical attributes
....umm, nope. Ref
eadFlagBlues. A meat based diet can cause many more problems.

2) Time taken to contemplate shopping/cooking might increase
...that's fine...keeps me out of trouble...usually!

3) Friends might laugh at you
...oh feck off....

4) No more classic BBQ-parties
...HA! HA..HA!! HAAA!!!! Sooooo not the case....

5) There are more landmass suited for cattle than for crops
...not sure about this...will have to investigate

6) Ratio of nuitrition/mass is lower in most vegetables
...again, not sure...the calorie production per acre for crops is around 4 times what could be produced in meat. Sometimes more.

7) Hard to let go of the holy matrimony between meat and beer
...hard to understand this one...does less than nothing for me....sorry!

8) The hobby of hunting might lose some of its points.
I'll let you fill in your own response here...mine was too rude.

9) A lot of candy must be let gone of (gelatin)
...A tough one, I know...but we shouldn't eat so much of it anyway!! Try making your own Turkish style sweeties...I guarantee you won't eat so many, and you will know exactly what goes into them.


Great post...so thank you....



Edit to add...sorry for the weird layout...computer wouldn't let me cut and paste like it should. I hope it all makes sense.

[edit on 15-3-2009 by caitlinfae]



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 07:52 AM
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Thank you for the nice response Caitlin!
Always nice to see a good "on topic" post every once in a while!


Let me develop my list according to your replies:

Pro's:

5) Shopping much easier (limited selection)
What I mean is this:
I don't know how it is where you live, but when I go shopping, all I see is meat, meat, meat... So then I can just go: pass, pass, pass... Saves me alot of time.
And what makes me very nervous these days are the unlimited number of choices we get shoved in our faces every day. I prefer a limited selection of raw material to work from. The smaller the supply, the more my mind have to work over it. I think that is a good thing. And pre-cooked foods without meat are so scarce to find, it makes that part of the shopping much faster!

Also when at the restaurant; your number of dishes vastly diminish. Less choice, less trouble! I like it simple, that's just how I work.


Con's:


1) Total vegan life style might weaken one's physical attributes
I mainly mean small children. But I just say "might" for a reason. Nothing is impossible. Maybe this can differ from person to person. Still, most people could easily live vegan... But I want my dairy!



4) No more classic BBQ-parties
When I say "classic", I mean the classical ones with burgers and ribs and smoky hickory-blah blah blah... I still BBQ alot though.


5) There are more landmass suited for cattle than for crops
Well, to raise crops off different kinds, you need good soil for that. Some crops demand more. You need to be able to plough sometimes. Then you need water and the right temperatures. A swift change in weather can exterminate the seasonal harvest.
Cattle, on the other hand, just need some grassy plains to feed from. Doesn't matter if the soil is thin and weak.
And trust me, there is so much more barren land out there than there is land propper for growing things. Why do you think people starve?

6) Ratio of nuitrition/mass is lower in most vegetables
I was more thinking about the ration per portion. But since beans and such hold lots of proteins, this point is not very valid. Still, not every person have beans. Some have to do with other greens, and those might be lacking in protein or whathaveyou.

7) Hard to let go of the holy matrimony between meat and beer
Well, maybe it does nothing for you, but it was the OP that asked the question. I still sometimes miss those "meat and beer" meals... But as I said, as soon as the meat is right there on the plate...I can't overcome the absurdity of it all.

8) The hobby of hunting might lose some of its points.
Well, I am no hunter. Never was, most likely will never be. But if you are, and you want to become a vegetarian...then it might seem pointless sort of. Unless you hunt to sell.

9) A lot of candy must be let gone of (gelatin)
You are right...
But those Turkish Delights...they don't go very well with me. Rather just eat honey straight from the jar!



The "con" list is rather weak, but they were the best things I could come up with. If anyone has something better to add, please do.

[edit on 15-3-2009 by Raud]



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by XyZeR
Here's a newsflash: Geneticaly engineered = selective breeding....:rolleye:


Nope, selective breeding is not genetic engineering


That's how 99% of our meat is grown,... on an industrial scale....


99% < 100%



You are gravely mistaken. Learn the difference between the "brain" and the "mind."


I'm sorry,....What ? How did you reach this assumption that i don't know the difference between those from what i posted...?...What am i gravely mistaken about?


Ok, you obviously still don't know the difference


First, is that an attempt at forming a complete sentance, have you read it yourself ?

Are you trying to say no such research exsists ? cause i posted a link about it for ya, which you clearly didn't check.

Or are you telling me cows don't produce methane on a massive scale ?


Cows emit a massive amount of methane through belching, with a lesser amount through flatulence. Statistics vary regarding how much methane the average dairy cow expels. Some experts say 100 liters to 200 liters a day (or about 26 gallons to about 53 gallons), while others say it's up to 500 liters (about 132 gallons) a day. In any case, that's a lot of methane, an amount comparable to the pollution produced by a car in a day.


source= check it



That article says only 3%.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by Raud
 


Raud, you did not hit a sore spot. I just want people to be happy with their lives, not do a lifestyle because that is what is in. If being a vegan makes one happy, they go for it. I do not see why some people get violent or upset if another person states they do not eat meat. On the other hand, I hate getting preached at by the many celebrities who are vegan and look down on us meat eaters.

I will eat my food and enjoy it. If a vegan invites me to dinner, I will try all their foods. I am not one to not try anything, as I like to eat and food is one of the things that comes in so much different variety. I am limited by my health problems, so I do not get to enjoy much. I have to make up for it by enjoying other things. Food is one of them, and I am open to any recipe that is offered here!

I did eat a garden burger from a fast food joint, and did not like it. I would be open to trying one again if it was cooked by a vegan who knew how to prepare it properly.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 02:31 PM
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I just saw a documentary yesterday called -

A Delicate Balance - The Truth

www.adelicatebalance.com.au...

a short docu on the film -
suprememastertelevision.com...

I would suggest people watch this - to get some perspective on meat and dairy products - how it affects the body and the environment.

I personally do not eat any animal products -
This film introduces reasons as to why this is a good choice for us humans.


Perhaps you can get this from your local library as I don't think the whole film is on line yet.



[edit on 15-3-2009 by spinkyboo]



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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Pro's:
1) Better for the enviroment
I agree

2) Healthier
Not for everyone

3) Cheaper!
Organic veggies are insanely expensive. Brown rice is actually more expensive than white rice in the US. In China, it's the opposite!

Supply and demand have more effect on price than product quality.

4) Ethics apply
Not for everyone

5) Shopping much easier (limited selection)
Embracing a limited selection == weakness

6) Awareness of nuitrition facts
Not all meateaters are unhealthy slobs

7) Rising interest in growing own crops
You don't need to be a vegetarian to raise crops

8) New inspiration in the kitchen
Most meat eaters cook with vegetables and spices

9) Spiritual enrichment (if into such)
If you want "spiritual enrichment" you're better off fasting than simply becoming vegetarian.


Con's
1) Total vegan life style might weaken one's physical attributes
Not for everyone. Some people think that meat makes them heavy and sluggish.

2) Time taken to contemplate shopping/cooking might increase
True, and if you're vegan you might fret over seemingly simple things like soap or clothing

3) Friends might laugh at you...
Not if your friends are open to it

4) No more classic BBQ-parties
You can still have vegetarian BBQ

5) There are more landmass suited for cattle than for crops
Improper crop growing may lead to infertility or soil erosion. Often animals are fed other animals, which is unfortunate.

6) Ratio of nuitrition/mass is lower in most vegetables
Potatoes have lots of nutrition. Peeling and deep-frying a potato destroys about 99% of its nutritional value, unfortunately

7) Hard to let go of the holy matrimony between meat and beer
That's something I actually disagree with. That combination loads the body with estrogens.

8) The hobby of hunting might lose some of its points
True

9) A lot of candy must be let gone of (gelatin)
Actually, "thickeners" like gelatin and egg are faked using unhealthy compounds like carrageenan or lecithin



So, I guess it is up to each an every one of us to decide what is more important.

I am lacto-ovo vegetarian and have been so for a year now and I feel great.
I turned to this path for some reason I am yet not fully aware of. I had been thinking of it for some time, but suddenly it just came over me. It was like a message in my head, indestinct yet very obvious. Maybe I will know later. Maybe it bought me a few more years of life time for me to do something special. Anyways, I don't interfere with my gut-feelings anymore.


That's not a "gut feeling" -- it's programming.



I try to avoid fish most of the time, but I don't cosider fish to be in the same "chapter" as regular meat (birds included). Eggs are OK, they are not alive, never has been, never will be. Dairy- couldn't do without it, I'm sorry...guess the Gods have to cut me some slack...I am doing my best here.

I really try not to preach my diet, but I will if anyone is weak-minded enough to question it. It is very easy to start a heated debate over this subject. I think it is so sore to many people because they have supressed feelings of guilt over their meat-eating. Visit a industrial slaughter house and see how it feels afterwards...


Suppressed feelings of guilt? Why should people be guided by their guilt? There are much more serious things to be guilty about, like programming other people around negativity.


The hard part is the candy! Man, I love marsmallows...but no more of that stuff...

I say that man is an omnivour if it must be. But normally, we are designed to be herbavoures.


That's a serious weakness on your part. I'm a meat eater, yet I hardly ever eat candy, more because of the poisonous refined sugar and empty calories, than because some cow had to die to make it. Technically, an egg is the menstruation of a chicken. I'm pretty sure a cow is emotionally affected when its milk is not used to feed a calf. I think it's pretty hypocritical to cry over a cow, but not a fish.

Actually, based on tooth strutcture and nutritional requirements, I'd say that humans are "normally designed" to be omnivores.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 02:36 PM
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how can such a peaceful, selfless practice possibly be bad?



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by Tallsorts
I changed my diet because meat and derivatives gave me gut ache, and I grew out of eating pieces of dead creature. Eventually I had to quit eating eggs and dairy products too, as they were upsetting my digestive system. That lead to a lot of reading, and I had no choice but to become a dietary Vegan.

A piece of brocolli is a dead creature. A carrot or a radish is the root of a dead creature, making it impossible for that creature to sustain itself. By eating a fruit and not re-distributing the seeds, you make it impossible for that creature to sustain itself.




I’ve never tried persuading anyone else to stop eating animal stuff, but there’s things to realise about a meat, dairy, egg and fish diet. People in Africa, China, India and South America see the Western Diet as a target worth achieving alongside economic growth, and that is going to make meat in particular more expensive, and less easy to obtain. Seas are being overfished, due to the increasing global population.

Arguing against eating meat in excess is kinda exaggerated


Growing plant based food for the Global population is much greener than growing animal feed and then converting it to animal foodstuffs. Also bio fuel crops are taking up field space from human food production, and this green fuel isn’t as green as it first appears.

I agree that bio-fuels are doing nothing but destroying quality of life, but the whole "green" movement never ceases to make me laugh



It is also interesting to note that menopausal symptoms are virtually unknown in Japan, where the population consume soya based foods like bean curd. Some Western women going through the menopause have added soya to their diet, bringing reductions to their normal range of symptoms.

Soy and meat both produce estrogens. While that may be fine during menopause, for the rest of a woman's life it may be detrimental. For men, it's certainly detrimental. In addition, Japanese people eat much smaller portions than Americans, which may also be an unrelated factor.


With most Vegetarians and Vegans, there isn’t the need to run ‘Five-A-Day’, campaigns to get them to eat sufficient healthy fruit & veg portions per day, because they normally get more than that.

It's possible to eat meat and veggies together. I've tried it before!



Personally I wouldn’t want to go back to eating dead animal parts, it seem quite prehistoric and barbaric, but live and let live, I say. (Oops, no pun intended).

It's really condescending to use the words "prehistoric" and "barbaric" in a pejorative manner. Animals have always been eating one another. Why should humans think that natural order is somehow beneath them? That's why people keep tigers and chimpanzees in their home, and then end up being killed by them.


[edit on 15-3-2009 by vcwxvwligen]



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by vcwxvwligen
 


Hehe, you are quite a piece of work there matey!
Think you can lure me into your cave ey, you little troll!


You must learn to write much better than that to scare me.
But first of all: don't give yourself away with those -500 points!


Hey, we should do that "debate-fight" kind of thing over this!
I would so roll right over you!



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by kidflash2008
I did eat a garden burger from a fast food joint, and did not like it. I would be open to trying one again if it was cooked by a vegan who knew how to prepare it properly.


Holy smokes!

That is your strongest reference to the vegetarian kitchen?
Haha, far out!
I just have to pass you some recipes...you are totally missing out on something!

Ayou see, the tread topic invites to heated debate over the subject.
Beware of the cross-fire!

But yeah, I get where you are coming from, no worries.



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 06:03 PM
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Originally posted by Raud
reply to post by vcwxvwligen
 


Hehe, you are quite a piece of work there matey!
Think you can lure me into your cave ey, you little troll!


You must learn to write much better than that to scare me.
But first of all: don't give yourself away with those -500 points!


Hey, we should do that "debate-fight" kind of thing over this!
I would so roll right over you!



Bad writing? Look who's talking?


That's right, if you can't win, just resort to personal attacks!



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 12:38 AM
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I hate when either side uses the word "designed." We weren't designed to do anthing but survive. Humans can adapt to a number of environments. Vegetarianism or Veganism isn't right for everybody. Imaginaryreality1984 has a good thread about his brush with vegetarianism. You'd have to take his word about his condition and like him, you'd have to try it out for yourself. I had taken on Veganism as a two week bet and that was over three years ago.

Just try it and don't listen to the blowhards on either side, including myself. If it gets you off, it gets you off, learn and grow with it. If not, its not like its a big deal. As much as veganism means to me, I understand its not for some. The most important thing isn't necessarily the concept of your diet, but the quality of food you're ingesting. If you ingest #, you'll feel like #. Regardless, I hope you have the same luck on your little dietary journey.



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 02:32 AM
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reply to post by vcwxvwligen
 

I am sorry, but feeding a troll like yourself, it's just below my standards.
Maybe if you would bother to provide something that is actually debatable, I could go for it.

Interesting to note is, that in your long post (reply to my pro/con list), most text was written by me. That is not the way it works matey.
Also in that reply, I count it to 14 one-line replies. That is just plain lousy.

I also took the liberty of checking out your profile.
I see that you have been able to post the same thread in two forums at the same time. That is not allowed.
And by the general quality of your penmanship, I feel debating you is like kicking a half-dead invalid who is already lying down.


Oh, by the way, I see you now have below -1000 points.
People like you really contribute to ATS...not.

Come back when you got something.


[edit on 16-3-2009 by Raud]



posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 09:24 AM
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reply to post by Raud
 


I have to agree, , don't feed the trolls... even if they are anti-vegetarians


cue... someone taking this post way to seriously.



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