Question for all UK residents about Islam

Okay first of all, i hope this is in the right area, if not mods please feel free to move it and accept my apologies.

Okay... this is NOT a hate thread, so i expect all replies to at least hold some common courtesy.

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I was rather alarmed the other day to find numerous websites aiming to introduce Islam as the major player in UK and european factors.

here's a quote i found:

Islam is proven to be the only unique divine political solution for mankind and one small diamond from this treasure chest was the Islamic renascence that took place in Portugal.

www.islam4uk.com...

It has now emerged that sharia courts with these powers have been set up in London, Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester with the network’s headquarters in Nuneaton, Warwickshire. Two more courts are being planned for Glasgow and Edinburgh.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

and let us of course not forget about the honour killings in the UK.

www.iris.org.il...

Mohammed Riaz made every conceivable attempt to prevent his wife and daughters enjoying their Westernised lifestyle. He destroyed their clothes - modest by Western standards but tight fitting by his own - when they came out of the wash and he railed against plans to allow alcohol at his terminally ill son's 18th birthday party - which had been brought forward because of his prognosis.

He later poured petrol over them whilst they slept in bed, and ignited them, burning them alive.

AND

For dozens of couples in the UK, such threats have become all too real. Police are now investigating more than 120 deaths they suspect of being "honour killings". It has been estimated that 12 women a year die in the UK as a result of such terrifying acts.

www.independent.co.uk...

Aswell as dozens more which aren't mentioned in the MSM.

What about the preachers, the clerics, the angry Islamists who call other UK residents 'Infidels' and demand they convert to Islam... YET we CANNOT have a ST Georges day celebration because it is classed as RACIST!

www.jihadwatch.org...

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My point is:

How many UK residents would be happy with Sharia law and Islam deciding the fate of your life in the UK?

Thankyou for your time.

Oh and i hasten to add:

Opinions from non-Uk residents are very welcome, as are opinions from muslims (both Uk and non Uk)

Thanks

not on my watch they wont be im not letting my country become a minority to foreigners who spread words of hate in one breath then take the benefits in the other, im sensing a change in the air hear and now im hearing people becoming more and more furstrated with the problems caused by letting every tom dick and abdul in here its making the country agressive and racist because of it, people who i knew who had no agenda and problems with these people are now becoming very hostile and u sense there frustration is boiling over, i dont see it to long before pitchforks and gangs start having a go, i wouldnt wanna be an MP right now thats for sure.....

I am from the UK. I don't think Muslims are a threat to England or our way of life. I believe the mass media are intentionally trying to cause hysteria, division, hate and mistrust through focussing and amplifying the fringe elements of the religion, when the vast majority are law abiding and moderate.
Demonise a minority, oldest trick in the book. That guy with the hook played right into their hands.

The honour killings by Extremist Islamic Fundamentalists are awful.
The geopolitical killings by Extremist Capitalist Fundamentalists are equally awful, just carried out on a much bigger scale.

I believe the media are deliberately pushing inflammatory stuff like this on us and I hope people see through it. It's important that we debate stuff like this and talk about people's resentment, and try and diffuse it before it goes overboard.There are tensions in some parts of the U.K, sure: fights, street battles, divided communities- it's a bigger problem oop north- I'd like to here any northerners comment on it though- is the situation getting better or worse?

The majority of English residents have worked out that the two communities are being played off against each other, this subconscious realisation is, in part, due to the exposing of all the false flag terror.

We are, on the whole, a very tolerant and respectful country. For every Snip-head skinhead there are a hundred cool, intelligent, chilled out people. I have travelled to a few places and seen Indians in Latin America, Gypsies in Spain and Eastern Europe, the poor in Morroco- treated far worse...

I have lived in and around London for most of my life, and love the fact that it's a thriving, multi-cultural city, full of foreigners and people from all over the world.

Last, we can't complain about them "damn foreigners comin' in steelin' our blimmin jobs"- because people are leaving England for happier lands in droves. 70,000 per month IIRC. Net migration in the U.K. is not as bad as it seems.

I don't like the fact that foreigners fresh off the boat get housing benefit though, where as a native-born if I went down the dole seekers office tomorrow and asked for housing benefit I'd probably be told to sod off- Homeless? Tough.

Any way- the last two paragraphs were slightly off-topic. We need to close the doors a little bit to foreigners. I don't know if Sharia courts would have jurisdiction over me. I wouldn't be happy about that at all, but I believe ultimately the media is whipping up a storm over it, and we will get over it and move on as a country.

Enough of this divide and conquer crap from the media, it's an old trick and not working any more.


[edit on 111.063f20091am by HiAliens]

I've got nothing against the religion of Islam nor its followers.

What I do object to however, is Muslim minorities (as in the UK, where followers of Islam ARE a minority) DEMANDING that everybody has to follow their rules.

I personally find the Sharia courts offensive. What about the Jedi, do they get Jedi courts, seeing as its now an officially recognised religion since the 2001 census?

No religion inspires peace. Of course there are peaceful factions, but they never come without the extremists.
And although I don't trust the MSM to give a balanced view, it seems that Christian fundamentalists are content with protests and propaganda.
However, the general view of Islamic extremists is that they want everyone to convert or die.

Sorry, but I'm not going to let someone else dictate how I must live my life. Everyone else can do as they please, just stay out of my way.

And as for 'law' - lets stick to the law of the land. Its generally secular and designed to keep all the slaves in check, I don't agree with the idea of different rules for different people.

And as for honour killings.. they're just disgusting.

To conclude:
No Sharia law thanks.
Although some parts of it do seem fair and just, theres just too much bad stuff.
Killing of the INFEEEEEDELS? Sorry mate, I'll exercise my right to defend myself, and if its one or the other then you're gonna die, not me.

Good thread by the way.

reply to post by HiAliens


Up north?
Its kinda divided.

There are Muslims who at the end of the day, are just people. They get on with their lives like everyone else. No problems.

Then theres the other end of the scale. It seems that in some parts of certain northern towns, entire areas have been taken over. People immigrating from the east will literally buy up entire streets, and before you know it you can't walk around and hear a single English voice. Skin colour doesn't bother me, what bothers me is when I walk around in my own country being stared at as though I'm scum by people stood around chatting in some obscure language of which I have no knowledge.

And that isn't hate talk, thats personal experience. Head up to East Lancashire. Blackburn, Burnley, Colne, Nelson - you'll see what I mean.

Originally posted by HiAliens
I believe topics like this are deliberately inflammatory and I hope people see through it. There are tensions in some parts of the U.K, sure: fights, street battles, divided communities- it's a bigger problem oop north- I'd like to here any northerners comment on it though- is the situation getting better or worse?

Well, i'm speaking as a northerner, and i have seen racial violence and trouble in a few areas. So i think this topic still stands.

I agree with pritty much what everyone has said here. I live in the UK. Most of my life i was near birmingham, and now im up in stoke-on-trent, and as others have pointed out, it is divided. People who muslims are people none the less, and treat everyone else the same and in a good manner, then there is the odd few that start fights on you because you are white. But then again, there are white people who start fights on people because they are muslim or black etc etc.
I think one of the reasons that its picking up so much is because when areas such as stoke/birmingham were you have to be careful were you walk if your white, people are not used to this. 20years ago it was most likley the other way round, and i think the main stream media are reflecting that by saying muslims are to blaim for violence and terrorism, because they know that people have noticed the change and are more likley to side with the MSM.

On your questions, sharia law = no way. If you imagrate/live in a country, you follow by their law (i know most of the laws are stupid and rediculess, but you cant change a country to how your old country may of been)
I also believe that white people should be recornised as racial victims, as are black, asian and muslim are. England has a fairly equil race count, there is not much difference in how many "minority" groups they are compared to whites and the gap in constantly getting smaller and smaller, and yet white people are not recornised as racial victims, i find this rasist in itself. If someone called me an infedel, nothing would happen to them, if i shouted back a racial slur to them, i would be straight in caught signing a check of compensation.

reply to post by mr-lizard


This is a good topic. I made an edit to clarify that I was having a go at the media not yrself...

My opinion of Sharia law used to be that, if it is kept to the Muslim community itself, then it's not a problem. I was under the impression that it was, for want of a better term, just how they did things within that particular culture.

However, I saw a documentary - actually presented by a Muslim bloke - on television and Shariam, which isn't all about amputations and executions as some people seem to think, or perhaps want to think - wasn't quite what I thought. It seemed to primarily deal with civil disputes and divorces featured quite highly. Sadly, it really did appear that women really did get a rough deal with this and the whole set-up seemed to heavily favour men.

Unfortunately, a lot of Muslim culture - often backed-up by interpretations of Islam - seems to be pretty patriarchal. I'm aware that Islamic as word doesn't necessarily promote this but, as is always the case with religion, it tends to be about selective interpretation.

Inequality isn't what it should be in the UK as it is. There's pay disparity between genders that badly needs rectifying. There's a lack of equal opportunities for both genders in different fields. There's a bias against fathers in family law and so on. These desperately need sorting, but generally, I think there is some semblance of equality. Yet, in practice, I don't actually see much of the promotion of equality in Islam.

I live in one of the "up north" areas that selfisolated mentions above. Like selfisolated , skin colour doesn't bother me, religion doesn't bother me (my first friends in this particular neighbourhood were Hindus), and immigration per se doesn't bother me either as it would be hypocritical given the fact my 'in-laws' are immigrants themselves.

reply to post by Trolloks


Hey Trollocks, so have things got better or worse in Birmingham? I haven't been there for years.

I know there are problems there. It sucks that you have to be careful where you go. I haven't lived in a place like that for a long time. In the end, on Friday night when the pubs kick out, people are going to find some excuse for a scrap. Asian ****, White ****, Rich ****, Polish ****, wrong trainers, who are you looking at, Pushing in the taxi-queue, wrong haricut whatever.

I suppose Sharia law is wrong, but I don't have as much problem with Sharia banks. We need to somehow forge more understanding between the two comunities though, because if the economy crashes further things could become more polarised in some places.


[edit on 111.163f20091am by HiAliens]

reply to post by mr-lizard


I must preface my point by saying that I think that the "threat" of Islamic extremism to the UK is overstated in terms of the possibility of Sharia law etc.

At the same time I believe that the cultural aspects of Islam being present in the UK are understated. Muslims, due to their oppressive religion, are incapable of integrating to the same extent as other groups (hindus, buddhists etc). I know a lot of "Muslims" who are highly integrated and indeed I count them amongst my friends. However the common strand running through them is that they are not religious at all. They drink, a couple of them eat pork etc etc. For a religious Muslim to integrate then, is an impossibility. Only a liberal muslim (ie really a non-practising muslim) can integrate.

As for your question about whether or not I would be comfortable with Sharia being the major legal system in the UK:

Over my cold, dead (and probably decapitated) body.

This is England. England must be run by English law by default for all. If people want to resolve their disputes within their own community by their own standards, let them go ahead. However the institutional legal system must be English Common law.

I can only relate a personal story. My daughter went to university in Manchester..sometime she had to return home through Rusholme which is a predominantly asian part of south manchester. It was like running the gauntlet for her and very intimidating because they would call her "white whore" and "white bitch" as she was walking through and especially as she had been brought up in a small village.
Now I am not racist but I would be swaying that way after the way she was treated and this is the problem. The divide is being created and they seem to want it that way.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

However the common strand running through them is that they are not religious at all. They drink, a couple of them eat pork etc etc. For a religious Muslim to integrate then, is an impossibility. Only a liberal muslim (ie really a non-practising muslim) can integrate.

I agree with the rest of your post, apart from this bit. I had the good fortune to be able to hang around with a lot of Muslims from Saudi, Kurdistan, Libya and Syria a few years back. We went out occasionally.
They were liberal *but* practising Muslims- didn't eat pork or drink. Women, sure... London was Sin City for them so yes, they bent the rules. There are many shades of grey in the Muslim community.

They would often inspire me and put me to shame in nightclubs by being more energetic, funny and dancing more than the rest of us while alcohol didn't pass their lips. So they can't eat a hot dog on the way home... they can have a lamb kebab though.

They are far sharper than I thought at first. They would say to me... "Listen, you may party, but your governement makes alcohol cheap and freely available, so if you have a problem with the government, you just drink and forget yourself, this is why they do it."

How could I argue with that?

My point is: It's possible to fully integrate into British culture and be a practising Muslim- Pre-marital sex being the only shady area.

Wake up- Pray - Breakfast - Go to work - Go home at 6pm - Pray - Go out - Don't drink - Dance - Party - Go home - Pray -Sleep






[edit on 111.333f20091am by HiAliens]

reply to post by sueloujo


Harsh story Sueloujo. I probably wouldn't be so liberal if that had happened to me. I understand there are big problems in some parts of the U.K.. I am only speaking from my personal experience, and I hope I don't come across as a namby-liberal, cos I know some places have it tough.

Q: What's the definition of a conservative?
A: A liberal who's been mugged.

Its hard to say on the degree of worse/better, im only 20 at the moment, so i guess it would be getting worse because of my age and the exposer i am open too. But generaly, they are more imagration happening now than 20years ago, and so on.

One of my first experiances in birmingham was when i was 13/14. Me and my mate was trying to find a music shop, and ended up the other side of birmingham, and then stumbled across a black "gh'etto"(as some peolpe would call it). I at the time was too nieve to realise, but my mate was well aware. As soon as i clicked, i was terrified. The looks we were getting was no less than death threat-looks. Most likley because my friend was wearing a england football top and had a shaved head, which is steriotyped as football hoolagenism as well as rasist. We were half way down the road though, so we could not turn back. We went into a shop to grab some munch and a drink, to try and ease the nerves a little. After being served by a VERY rude shopkeeper, we started to get followed by a few people, we then turned the nearest corner and ran.

I am glad i was young at the time, otherwise i recon worse would of came out of the incedent.
But birmingham gettin worse is mearly just an asumption on what happens. More culters become packed into an area, they typicaly all form their own terratories, then when it starts getting full, people are forced to be placed in the wrong territory, causes problems, people start becoming rasist, etc.
Happends in every comunity, weather its class, race, language, etc etc.

Hi,
I'm a Muslim convert, albeit not a practicing one. I live in UK. It has already been explained by the governement some time ago, shariah law would not be incorporated into mainstream UK law, to be applicable to everyone.

What was really suggested was that at some level, communties looking to abide by ASPECTS of shairah law, may be able to do so. check the keywords, 'communites' & 'ASPECTS'.

UK is a christian country, with the monarchy, and various legalites centering around Christianity. To change that as some delluded, and scaremongering folks are suggesting, would cause a constitutional crisis. And severe civil unrest.

Having said that. Everyone must realise what globalization means. And we, as a nation are not gonna be able to keep up with the world if we attempt to shut oursevles away from it. Borders are melting, races congealing.

And although it seem scary to some that they may be losing their indentity in some respects, we, the British, havn't staarted large scale vote-rigging yet. So, in a democracy, we can decide if we are accepting , our not, the way any governement is responding to this changing world.

Before an individual makes their mind up however, it would serve us well to look at the the changing face of the world, and ask ourselves, are we gonna stay a forerunner in the world , as it changes.

Or, are we gonna isolate ourselves, like a North Korea.

Take care
Wayne

Originally posted by sueloujo
I can only relate a personal story. My daughter went to university in Manchester..sometime she had to return home through Rusholme which is a predominantly asian part of south manchester. It was like running the gauntlet for her and very intimidating because they would call her "white whore" and "white bitch" as she was walking through and especially as she had been brought up in a small village.
Now I am not racist but I would be swaying that way after the way she was treated and this is the problem. The divide is being created and they seem to want it that way.

Terrible tale, i feel for your daughter. You guys didn't deserve that for sure.

A general question to all though. These asian's that are spoke of. Do you think they said, 'i know, let's go to a foreign country, where we are hugely outnumbered, and cause terrible trouble. '

Is there a chance, a possibility, that something has occured in the UK that occurs all over the world when immigrants come?

Specifically, when a noticeable influx of folks appear in a country, the natives of that country, invariably feel terratorial, and threatened a tthe same time. immediately giving rise to rasicm. Sociologically this is what happens.

And although these asian thugs are idiots, still, society within the Uk may have contributed to this hate.

It is easy to point the finger, and solely blame them. without attempting to question what has actually caused this whole situation in society. :-) .

take care
Wayne

Thanks to everybody so far for the replies.

I'm glad this thread hasn't descended into immaturity as with other topical subjects and i'm glad i'm getting mixed opinions and ideas.

As i say, my opinions on the subject are slightly confused. I try and avoid the MSM, but living a daily life in town, you cannot help glance at headlines and such. Obviously there is a ton of scare-mongering and spin and things taken out of context via the media.

I do believe the media has a huge impact subconsciously on society and ideas are warped and formed etc.

But this is also double-sided. There are always TWO sides to the news.
Some people the daily mail crowd, the sun and the far right, the bnp etc will be following the blinkered patriotism of the war in Iraq and Afghan via this mainstream channel and hatred and confusion will be generated.
On the same side of things, young muslims will also be seeing the same stuff but taking the other side of the proverbial coin.

I am trying not to generalise here. Not everyone who reads the daily mail is a would-be dictator and not every young muslim is angry, nor is everybody that is against the war a crusty hippe.

BUT

Alternative media is ALSO responsible for creating opinion an bias.
Whereby many lefties will develop confused and blinkered about soldiers and politics also. Biased opinion can be generated accidently by would-be alternative media.



Can you see where i'm coming from. It's hard to know what to believe these days.hence me asking for peoples opinions myself.

Thanks again

Originally posted by reiki
It is easy to point the finger, and solely blame them. without attempting to question what has actually caused this whole situation in society. :-) .

take care
Wayne

A great point. I think that's the question i am kind of asking myself