Why do you believe in aliens UFO's?

I have seen my share and honestly when you start to think from a realistic perspective the odds don't favor us.

We can take and compare our planet or species to a grain of sand and then compare that to the entire beach and all other beaches in the world. Then take that and compare our 1 grain to any other possible grains of sand in our entire universe all combined. That is us trying to say that this 1 grain (earth) is the only possible one that can support life and intelligent species in the whole universe and in all of time and existence.

That seems a little ignorant and self defeating to me.
It is our lack of understanding and knowledge that lead us to these types of conclusions and it only shows our lack of logical maturity.

Unless of course we did just happen to be that 1 grain of sand that got lucky out of all the rest and spawned life magically. Those kind of odds are in no way realistic.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by N3krostatic]

Originally posted by jackphotohobby


Alien visitation isn't something I think is impossible, it's just that I think it is improbable.

-----

So, I'd change my mind, but it would take a lot of high quality evidence.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by jackphotohobby]

how probable do you think it is? in every 100 lifetimes of the universe how many times do you think alien visitation would happen?

My question is deliberately obtuse: Statements of probability about events that are once in a lifetime (all or nothing) dissolve into meaningless.

I don't think I can say it's probable or improbable because it either is happening or is not, but we have no experience upon which to base the likelyhood. What we do have is an incomplete model of the universe (i.e. science) upon which we can base such statements. The problem is that the model is only applicable to a much smaller scope than the scope required for understanding the possibility of extraterrestrial life.

Hence, I am far more comfortable with statements of uncertainty than with statements of probability with regards to things that are cosmological One offs.

As far as how much evidence it would take to convince any one person, it turns out that most people will believe it if an authority tells them so. So that's what it's going to boil down to. Most of what I know is outside my realm of direct experience, my understanding of science, electronics, etc, is all the stuff I learn from books sanctioned by other authorities than myself, and the same will apply to alien visitation if it ever comes down to that. no doubt, if some authority made an announcement, surely photos or videos would be the form of "evidence" we would get, just like my only evidence to know about the existence of the space shuttle comes from images from TV.

-rrrr

Originally posted by Tokis Phoenix
 


So basically you believe because of the possibility of existence rather than the evidence of existence, because you can't rule out the possibility of existence?

Many of us could simply pose your question right back at you;

Why DON'T you believe in 'aliens UFO's' ?

My simple answer to your question is this:

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. Most of what I have seen I WILL chalk up to being 'Top Secret' military craft, but that's why I have an interest in the subject, much like many of the people here. We do understand that the majority of sightings are simply 'Black Projects', 'Swamp Gas' ( ), 'Weather Anomalies' (including all sorts of 'official explanations'), and then we get into the interesting stuff. That small minority of sightings/reports which have NO EARTHLY EXPLANATION.

We believe because we have a choice to.
You disbelieve because you have made your choice as such.

Who are you to question our motives, anyways?
It's an interesting subject to some (clearly not yourself).

J

Having belief in a thing does not make it real. But, having experience with it does.

I'm almost 50 years old now, have seen a large variety of ships and had contact with visitors all my life. The most recent sighting (30 December 08) included some interaction between the craft and myself when I began to flash my car's headlights as the craft got closer. It was a craft I had not seen before but knew of their existence due to over 10 years of being a researcher. This one was a triangle shape with the light at each apex and one in the centre. Closest approach was about 2 kilometres over farmland and the sighting lasted 5 minutes as I watched it move about noiselessly. Might have been a TR3B, might not have too.

As for evidence; people want too much. They want parts from ships, some DNA from an alien, some other tech we can get our hands on. This want shows a total lack of understanding about the entire subject. When you are aboard a ship, willingly or not, the last thing to enter your mind is a thought to grab something as proof, to take your camera that you somehow had time to get before going aboard so that you can get some happy snaps. It just does not work that way!

Proof. There is already more than enough proof from around the globe to satisfy most people's need. While we know about disinformation, we can also see that there are a number of people involved in various encounters in a professional way (Military/Air Force/NASA/etc) that have come clean before their deaths about what they know. Not all of them are dead of course, Nick Pope for one.

It's funny to me that so many sightings are put down to a variety of things like swamp gas, birds, venus, etc. Because a person says it could have been one of those things does not make it that it was one of those things. A close sighting will convince anyone who sees it. Lights in the sky convinces no one except believers.

Before the end of this year more people will see with their own eye and know the truth that earth is still being visited, no matter what scientists or Sceptics claim to the contrary.

reply to post by Tayesin


I am curious as to why you think that before the end of this year more sightings will happen.

Honestly, I have a hunch that that is the case, but I am basing my hunch on the alleged secret UN meetings, the gradual release of X-Files from various countries, also based on the uptrend in sightings. To tell you the truth, I'm not putting money on my hunch, but it is a very interesting thing to think about.

Do you base your statement on the same pieces of evidence as me or do you have another "datapoint" that leads you in this direction? care to share?

Thanks and peace!

-rrr

Originally posted by Tokis Phoenix
As the title says, why do you believe in alien UFO's? With all the space debris floating around, top secret advanced military aircraft technology and weird & rare weather phenomenons going around, why do you believe there are alien UFO's?

IMHO it would be nice to believe that advanced aliens existed and all that, but so far i have never seen any convincing evidence that UFO's have anything to do with aliens. Even if i had a personal experience seeing a UFO for myself, i would likely put it down to something like top secret military stuff or falling space debris etc.

One cannot deny the existence of intelligent alien beings when one witnesses a craft of mind-boggling capabilities as I did when I was a child. It was clear to me in the years following mankind simply did not have the technology to create a craft of this kind as it darted from position to position in the blink of an eye

Originally posted by N3krostatic
I have seen my share and honestly when you start to think from a realistic perspective the odds don't favor us.

Can you elaborate on what you mean here? The odds don't favor what? Life on another planet in our own solar system? The galaxy? ALL other galaxies?

Originally posted by N3krostatic
We can take and compare our planet or species to a grain of sand and then compare that to the entire beach and all other beaches in the world. Then take that and compare our 1 grain to any other possible grains of sand in our entire universe all combined. That is us trying to say that this 1 grain (earth) is the only possible one that can support life and intelligent species in the whole universe and in all of time and existence.

Deep ... too deep for me. I'm not sure how to compare a planet to a grain of sand. I think you may have missed that writer's point.

The point was that the number of stars out there in the UNIVERSE is beyond our comprehension. You might guess thousands of trillions (it's a HUGE number), or analogize that number to the number of grains of sand on a beach, but the point is that there are SO many of them that it defies reason not to give life pretty good odds at being on thousands, perhaps millions, of those star's planets.

Water forms on planets during the process of a star forming. Water is our universe's cosmic soup. Water too is out there, everywhere.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by N3krostatic
That seems a little ignorant and self defeating to me.
It is our lack of understanding and knowledge that lead us to these types of conclusions and it only shows our lack of logical maturity.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Originally posted by jephers0n
We believe because we have a choice to.
You disbelieve because you have made your choice as such.

I'm making that my signature phrase. I could not agree more.

Originally posted by The Savage Khan
I would say that close to 99% of the UFO/Alien information is either related to selling a product or making money or just plain old uneducated people searching for an escape from their boring lives. But all you need is for 1% to be true to validate that aliens are visiting our planet.

I understand. But if other explanations can account for 99%, what other than faith makes us believe that there must exist a 1% which cannot be explained?

I was shocked long ago when a leading physicist working on fusion power pointed out there there was nothing in the universe saying that one of the many approaches being tried had to work; most of them were turning out not to work well enough, and it's quite possible that 100% of approaches might fail in the end. (Controlled fusion in terrestrial environments producing usable power). If 90% can fail, why can't 100% of attempts fail? My faith beforfe that that something would pan out was reasoning by analogy, which is not science. (Physics has gotten only slightly closer to [hot] fusion power in the decades since then so the question is still in the air).

Anyway, I can't quite buy the idea that the existence of a lot of noise implies there must be a signal. It could be all noise.

That doesn't mean I don't believe UFO exist; I'm still on the fence about that. It means I don't think they exist just because a lot of smoke always implies a fire. If delusion, misperception, self-promotion etc can create 99 incidents, it could have created 100.

All that said, I do think there are some reports of flying objects which are very hard to explain. Something outside our current published scientific knowledge seems to be happening. I don't know what tho. ET? Maybe. Natural? Maybe. Secret military? In some cases maybe. Supernatural? Dunno. The quantum mallabity of an apparently shared univserse to belief? Who knows? I don't think it's all just delusion or hoax tho (on the specific evidence of specific accounts, not based on volume of bogus ones).

reasoner

Originally posted by The Savage Khan
I would say that close to 99% of the UFO/Alien information is either related to selling a product or making money or just plain old uneducated people searching for an escape from their boring lives. But all you need is for 1% to be true to validate that aliens are visiting our planet.

There is a ton of disinformation out there. And unless you make the effort to really dig in and wade through the madness, you'll only see what's spoon fed to you through the media, through the entertainment industry, hell, even from our own government at times.

You raise a great point, though. There are a ton of people in the US who feel this way because we HAVE been fed so much disinformation over the years. Those guys have gotten really good at it.

Originally posted by Rakshan
There are a lot of folks who have seen alien UFOs for the very reason that they're attempting communication with them. It sounds crazy, I know, but it's true. It kind of makes sense to me. I mean, if they're close by, and if we're attempting communication in the right spirit, why wouldn't they make their presence known?

I don't know. If they are real aliens , then by definition we can't project our human motives or values onto them.

My question is: does the fact that some people with a large interest in alien UFOs have multiple encounters with them raise your belief that these are objective phenomena or lower it?

It's not only the far reaches of space that we humans do not have complete knowledge of - there are parts of the human psyche we shouldn't be too smug about knowing either. For example, is projective telepathy impossible? Suppose that under some circumstances, one person's imagining could cause others to "see the same thing"? If you are familiar with remote viewing and other psi phenomena, this won't seem like a totally out of the blue hypothesis. True, it's as far outside current mainstream science as extraterrestial craft are - but it's just as valid a hypothesis to be considered.

If the same person keeps running into aliens, it's possible that the aliens are telepathically reading their mind and plotting course accordingly. But to me it also suggests other alternatives.

I mention this because by far the most detailed and convincing accounts are from witnesses who did not get a convincing image. Maybe some "sighting" result from a form of imagining and telepathy between humans. (Maybe not).

Having an open mind about UFOs includes considering non-alien hypotheses as well (as many here do).

The prevalence of cell phone and digital cameras as well as home videocameras has resulted in an huge explosion of captured images and videos - car crashes, crimes, police abuses, explosions, suicides, and America's Funniest Home Videos. With hundreds of millions of people around the world having the equipment - plus the demonstrated ability to capture other transient phenomena even in sometimes high stress situations - people should soon start producing very clear and detailed high res photos of UFOs rather than fuzzy shakey ones.

Why isn't that happening? The f sub p (frequency of having decent photo equipment handy) times f sub a (the ability to use it) should be yielding results soon. This is a way more predictable equation than the existance of other life somewhere in the universe.

reasoner

Originally posted by Rakshan
There is a ton of disinformation out there. And unless you make the effort to really dig in and wade through the madness, you'll only see what's spoon fed to you through the media, through the entertainment industry, hell, even from our own government at times.

You raise a great point, though. There are a ton of people in the US who feel this way because we HAVE been fed so much disinformation over the years. Those guys have gotten really good at it.

If so, I think we need to investigate the waste of taxpayer money to pay people to spread disinformation. There is no need for public funding for that; it's quite clear that amateurs are doing a great job of voluntarily spreading rumors and misconceptions and hoaxes, without needing any government funds. Why pay government employees, if the private sector is doing it for free, or as part of their own private enterprise and entrepenuerial initiative.

Or to put it another way: what percentage of the chaff postings on ATS do you believe are generated by paid disinformation agents? I would guess 0%. Not because the PTB would not be willing - but because they don't need to.

reasoner

Originally posted by Rakshan

Originally posted by simonecharisse
Talk-host George Noory of Coast-To-CoastAM, has his producer in contact with a military guy who "inherited 18 cannisters of reel-to-reel military film" "some of which shows President Eisenhower with Howard Hughs, in a warehouse, looking at alien bodies and wreckage". They are waiting for this whistleblower to hand over his stuff, as promised.
HOPE it's not another 'Santilli' film!

Stories like this have been around for years, and I for one hope they're true! Don't get your hopes set on it, though. If it does happen, who's going to cover the story? Really, stop and ask yourself that VERY important question ... who would cover that story? CNN? FOX?

Initially, none of the big MSM. But if there were really solid evidence, then gradually some highly respected academics (not previously in the movement) would start buying in, and enough of the independent media would start carrying the story, that the fear of being "scooped" would provide incentive for MSM to take it up too. Not just in the US.

You just need the right whistleblower with the right evidence. There are lots of people who would help expose this, who are just waiting for solid enough evidence to get behind, because they already believe - and others with open minds.

Something you have to understand about science and the media - there are rewards for conformity, and there are rewards for going beyond the envelope. Conformity sort of works for simple job security (see below tho), but every famous scientist you can name got there by breaking with "what was already known" before their contribution. You'll never get a Nobel prize for confirming what we already know.

There are not as many positions in solid science as there are applicants. It's very competitive; if you know somebody with a PhD in astrophysics or such, ask them what their changes of landing a tenured position or permanent funded research position in pure science (versus going to work for a military contractor or something). A majority of young scientists are going to have to leave science - unless they come up with something that makes them stand out. In other word, "conformity" only works as job security for about half of them at best. There are a lot who are looking for a hook, willing to buck the conventions because they won't continue to have a job unless they do (and they may become famous and respected if they cause a paradigm shift).

BUT - they need solid science. If they go out on a limb without the data and analysis to back it up, they are toast. The more unusual the proposition, the better the evidence they need.

Similarly for journalists - breaking a really big story is both a risk, and the biggest opportunity of their career. And many of them have "nothing to lose" because conformity won't keep their job.

So some solid evidence *could* get mainstream science and media attention, though it would take a while.

Of course some believe any real evidence would be stolen, etc. That's a different question. This is just about whether it's impossible for science and media to respond.

reasoner

Originally posted by reasoner

Originally posted by The Savage Khan
I would say that close to 99% of the UFO/Alien information is either related to selling a product or making money or just plain old uneducated people searching for an escape from their boring lives. But all you need is for 1% to be true to validate that aliens are visiting our planet.

I understand. But if other explanations can account for 99%, what other than faith makes us believe that there must exist a 1% which cannot be explained?

...

Anyway, I can't quite buy the idea that the existence of a lot of noise implies there must be a signal. It could be all noise.

It's generally accepted amongst UFO researchers that ~95% of all cases have mundane explanations. Your question is similar to the one the Pentagon posed to the participants of Project Blue Book, "are the 5% unknowns given more information statistically likely to become knowns?" Based on Blue Books own investigation the chance that "the 'Unknowns' [are] the same as the 'Knowns' [is] less than one in a billion!" (The Hynek UFO Report, p. 243).

[edit on 3-3-2009 by Xtraeme]

Well, take this into account:


If you wanna see more by this guy:
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by reasoner
I don't know. If they are real aliens , then by definition we can't project our human motives or values onto them.

Very good point. We have to be real careful about what we assume is true. I personally don't think we have anything to fear from them. Nothing to fear, everything to gain. But don't assume that you are in any way going to understand their motives. That's a very interesting topic that we should take up in another thread. It gets real "out there", but it's fun.

Originally posted by reasoner
My question is: does the fact that some people with a large interest in alien UFOs have multiple encounters with them raise your belief that these are objective phenomena or lower it?

I think we have the power to make things happen in our lives. We have a lot of control over what we get from the universe around us. It's that whole karma thing. Put out positive energy, get it back.

Isn't that essentially what a lot of modern religions would teach us as well?

Yes, I do think people with an interest in life out there in the universe probably are more likely to have an encounter, if only because they're out there looking for answers. I've always observed that God will give you what you ask for.

Originally posted by reasoner
Having an open mind about UFOs includes considering non-alien hypotheses as well (as many here do).

I couldn't agree more. I'm glad we can all come together for this discussion.

Because I've seen one...didnt believe in them until I saw it myself.
It was triangle shaped with the ends cut off one light in the middle glowing white
and white lights on the area where the tips were cut off
several small ports or windows on the sides

Originally posted by reasoner
If so, I think we need to investigate the waste of taxpayer money to pay people to spread disinformation. There is no need for public funding for that; it's quite clear that amateurs are doing a great job of voluntarily spreading rumors and misconceptions and hoaxes, without needing any government funds. Why pay government employees, if the private sector is doing it for free, or as part of their own private enterprise and entrepenuerial initiative.

Or to put it another way: what percentage of the chaff postings on ATS do you believe are generated by paid disinformation agents? I would guess 0%. Not because the PTB would not be willing - but because they don't need to.

reasoner

You can bet that if this medium (this site, for example) ever gets to the point that it's reaching out and influencing the masses (like they do now), they'll find their way here and start the disinformation process. They're smart, though, so I'm sure they're already keeping an eye on things here. You don't keep a secret like this around for THIS long without having your eyes on EVERYTHING.

When you think about what it would take for the truth to come out, it's really discouraging. A lot of people have taken oaths to keep their mouths shut. And in order for the truth to come out, some of them might be put in front of the firing squad. Who's going to do that? I hate to sound cynical, but I think that most of these people care nothing but for themselves, their amassed wealth, and protecting their own hides.

Come on, is it REALLY that hard to see how greed has gotten us into trouble in the US, especially RIGHT NOW?!

There are probably a lot of good reasons at this point to keep the whole thing secret, but it's not the truth, and that's what we need.

[edit on 3-3-2009 by Rakshan]

reply to post by rickyrrr

Hi,
The only thing I base my prediction on is what I currently "feel" is happening around the globe. For many years I've known that certain events are to occur, and as the years slide by the events are occuring. For me, this is the perfect timeframe for opening people's awareness to the reality of Visitors in our skies. As we drop further into the depression called a recession, it makes sense that certain races working agendas would step up to take advantage of the chaos to come. At the same time, those attempting to assist us will also step up their presence.

At a time when governments need us to give the last of our power away to them in order to protect us, it should become obvious that there is also a need to further disempower the plebs by stripping away the foundation beliefs their lives are built on. Alien craft in the skies for all to see is one sure fire way to achieve that in cultures based on christian belief-system limitations to reality, if you are operating on agendas that is.

Yes, I think the recent large increase in sightings is part of the process I see happening this year.

Thanks

I believe in the nonhuman presence right here on this rock (for at least several thousand years) because there have been JUST enough credible enough accounts, including my own, to indicate the only obvious conclusion: (an) unseen presence(s). After bad past experiences, I won't mention my unexplained experiences on discussion sites (though could change my mind whenever), but my blog has a few, and the rest will hopefully be in the autobiography or biography.

The end of secrecy-based governments requires either enough popular support or some kind(s) of rather whopping cataclysm(s); or conceivably both.

lightworth.blogspot.com...