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Why do you believe in aliens UFO's?

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posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 05:46 PM
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Satan is definitely alive and well on Planet Earth. Too bad people don't wake up to his devices, and have their eyes fixed on the stars and Andersons Fairy Tales.


People aren't awake to the stars, either ... but I couldn't agree more. You can see that evil exists in a real physical form here on our blue rock. It's frightening.

I can't believe I'm even saying this, because at one time I would have thought this notion crazy, but maybe we should keep our eyes fixed on the stars for help.

"They" have done a masterful job at keeping us in the dark and at each other's throat. We're divided in so many different ways, and people profit off that. That's not conspiracy, it's just a fact.

[edit on 2-3-2009 by Rakshan]




posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 05:57 PM
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But figuring the billions of stars, you assume there is such a combination of planet and sun, and that somehow by accident the same process happened as we are told happened on earth (which now the evoutionists have revised their story and say gradual evolution didn't happen but that it was by leaps and bounds, becaUse they have no fossils, not one, to show any kind of gradual evolution of a reptile for example turning his scales into feathers (choke) --


My friend, I have to respectfully suggest that you're missing the point, and you don't have your numbers correct. This is what I was alluding too. There are BILLIONS of stars in our own galaxy, hundreds of billions. Take that, and then realize that there are hundreds of billions of GALAXIES out there. It's a staggering number, not one that we have words for, which would allow us to grasp just how much is out there. Most people don't truly understand how large the universe is.

I sense a deeply religious undertone to your response. If God has wasted all that space, what a waste ... but I don't think he has. That would be senseless, and stingy. That's not the God I feel in my heart.

You can rest assured that life is out there, but that's not going to answer any of our more pressing questions, like why simple truths are held back from us on THIS planet. What's the agenda here?



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 06:11 PM
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If God did create life on another planet, and I don't believe he did, it has nothing to do with us. These creatures are not going to visit us, to save us, or do anything for us. If they exist they are just mortal creatures such as we, unable to do anyhting more for us than we can do for ourselves. The mere fact that they may exist (which they do not) does not give them magical powers to solve our earthly problems.

God did come and visit this earth as a man. He came to visit us 2000 years ago. He was a superman. He raised the dead, he could walk on water, he fed the multitudes from a few loaves and fishes. He gave his life for us in a horrible, humliating ghastly crucifixion death, and three days later he rose bodily. In his new body he could go through walls, transport himself in a split second to another place, and he went bodily to heaven in front of 400 witnesses.

This is history. But you think some mortal creature made by this same Jesus, who is the Creator of the Universe and who holds the atoms together by his will and his word -- you suppose is going to travel here in a spaceship and save us here on Planet Earth?


Almost everything I agree with. Yes, he did come to us as a man. He did all those things the bible said he did. We treated him badly and are paying for it!

But see, herein lies my issue with these deeply religious arguments as they relate to this topic. You don't need to invoke Jesus' name here. After many years of studying relgion and this phenomenom, I have to humbly suggest that one only slightly relates to the other. I don't think Jesus came here to enlighten us to their presense any more then they're here to usher in his return. They just both exist (present tense). You need to come to grips with that. This is what's holding us back. THIS is how they keep us divided. We're on opposite sides of the fence, you and I. It's not because we're enemies in any way. It's because you have part of the story, and other folks have other parts of the story.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 06:11 PM
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This is one subject that always seems to get the dander flying.Also there are the regular arguments,If aliens were coming to our planet on a regular basis we'd have evidence.My favourite,even if there was life it would be so far away it could never reach us,space is just too damn big.There is one theory that can put these points to sleep,let's say for arguments sake "we are the aliens"or at least one or two of the supposed races.That would eliminate the travel issue were already here.As for evidence there is so much of it it's mind boggling.Every time anything is found that doesn't fit in nicely with the status quo it get's stolen,lost,or damaged beyond use.Either that or its totally shunned in the news.I can't count the amount of scientists engineers even P.H.Ds that get punted into obscurity because they've discovered something that "just isn't right".You want evidence look at giza.There have been some astonishing findings,I heard nothing until I searched it out on Google video.Chris Dunns giza power plant takes the pyramid right out of the ancient Egyptians hands,and puts it squarely into the hands of an astonishingly advanced civilization.Please if you haven't googled him google him now.His speech is long and boring,like mine,he is a engineer,a well educated man.There is alot more,the antikythera device is another oddity.I have never even come close to anyone explaining the mayan calendar,the bosnian pyramids,the sumerians and their cylider seals i'd love to see someone produce one now,not to mention what is on the seals.all of the planets in our solar system!!!!!HOW!!!!! this was supposed to be the first "civilization" of ours.I could go on ad nauseum.The simple truth is yes there are MANY unanswered questions,until we get these existentialist scum out of power.The American alphabet soup of greed and hate.Nsa nsc cia jag fisa fema cfr on and on.Will continue playing us all for chumps.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 06:51 PM
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Originally posted by Salt of the Earth
Anybody who believes matter is self-existant has ascribed god-like qualities to matter. You may as well worship the atom if you think it has eternal qualities, self-existant, able to form and lump together aqnd produce life from its inert molecules.


Why is it more likely that a God or gods existed with no beginning and no end than is to say matter has always been and always will be? For that matter who's to say the pattern that we call "intelligence" isn't a fundamental component of the universe? Emergent structures and behavior are abundant in nature. I think it's more likely intelligence is emergent over the multiplicity of theorized universes than it is to say one or many deities created our reality.

This isn't to say matter has god-like qualities rather that some things simply are.

For example, try explaining why the reflexive property holds for 1 = 1. You can try to find alternate ways to paraphrase the concept, "if two things are the same then they are clearly equal," but fundamentally why is one apple equal to another apple when clearly they're two separate things? They're only equal when we abstract what they represent to the idea of "apple." If we didn't have the ability to abstract we wouldn't have the ability to implicitly understand the reflexive property. Without this we could have never formed any level of math. A more fundamental question might be, how do we abstract? Interestingly enough it appears it's something we almost always fail up to age 4, and almost always pass after age 7.

Again this is another argument for emergence.

It's very likely complex systems, like humans, are simply patterns that have arisen out of a multiplicity of relatively simple interactions. There's nothing god-like about that.

How did we get from the reflexive property to calculus? Building blocks.

[edit on 2-3-2009 by Xtraeme]



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 06:55 PM
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1. I've seen a few
2. I'm a Chirstian
3. They are Biblical
4. Earth was a seed planet... "The Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there He put the man whom He had formed." Gen 5:8
5. They are coming back... "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places." Rev 6:14

An image from I.D.4 the movie showing the heavens departing as a scroll:

[edit on 3/2/2009 by JoeyGowdy]



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by Salt of the Earth

No, there's no mirror. We don't need any mirror to bounce a laser off the moon. Nobody has ever seen any junk left behind.

Check out this dynomite link. This will convince you. Look it over real carefully.

nasascam.bravehost.com...


Here's a link to a NASA film where they talk about taking an exploratory satellite to check out radiation and such for a possible trip to the moon in 2020. They admit the radiation is prohibitive.



[edit on 2-3-2009 by Salt of the Earth]


You're right. Except the Apollo astronauts didn't leave "junk" behind - they left those mirrors.

There's actually 4 reflectors (mirrors). I was off by 3.

Go read this.

cddisa.gsfc.nasa.gov...

I'm not sure what credentials you have, but I trust my friend. They use that laser/mirror combo to test the distance the moon moves away from the Earth on its orbit each year. As you can read by the "scientists" who wrote the report I link - they use the 4 reflectors for other experiments as well.

Simply saying they don't have reflectors on the moon isn't good enough. I know for a fact they're there. I trust my best friend. There are several other reports about laser range finding and test between the Earth and the Moon here:

search.nasa.gov...



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 06:59 PM
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Have you ever been to the top of Everest?
Has anyone ever brought a piece back you could touch? Should we assume the photos, news and stories of the climbers are faked until we have a piece of the rock in our hands that could be from any mountain?

Anyone whom does some serious study, and is of sufficient intelligence can see there is something going on, and it might not even be of the prosaic thought forms we Earthlings are able to muster yet. SOMETHING is going on however, despite our best means of understanding the phenomena.

I've seen them several times with unmistakable reality. I practice and are a science educated person. I can believe my eyes, because I engaged my knowledge and experience when and after observing them.

You don't need to be hit on the head to know a baseball bat is a hard piece of wood.


ZG



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by Rakshan

My friend, I have to respectfully suggest that you're missing the point, and you don't have your numbers correct. This is what I was alluding too. There are BILLIONS of stars in our own galaxy, hundreds of billions. Take that, and then realize that there are hundreds of billions of GALAXIES out there. It's a staggering number, not one that we have words for, which would allow us to grasp just how much is out there. Most people don't truly understand how large the universe is.

I sense a deeply religious undertone to your response. If God has wasted all that space, what a waste ... but I don't think he has. That would be senseless, and stingy. That's not the God I feel in my heart.

You can rest assured that life is out there, but that's not going to answer any of our more pressing questions, like why simple truths are held back from us on THIS planet. What's the agenda here?


God isn't wasting anything. There is life teeming in the deep of the ocean, it's everywhere on earth, things we haven't seen or known. The answer is in the Bible. God created the stars to "declare is glory." God is so powerful that he can create something so vast and monumental that when we look up at it it tells us the kind of God we are dealing with, a very, very powerful and amazing God. The other reason God made the stars, according to the Bible, is for times and seasons. That's it. To declare his glory and to help us to know the times and seasons. God is just a giver, a huge giver, a Creator beyond all we can ever imagine.

The Bible says God reveals himself in his creation, and therefore there is no excuse for anybody not to believe in Him.

This I believe. That's why when people believe Hollywood's lies and fairy tales instead of thinking things through -- come on. Who would really believe that matter can create itself out of nothing and form life that evolves into countless life forms, so many as not to be counted, all taking supposedly billions of years to develop, but none in existence now that we can see evolving. Every life form out of the millions upon millions of plants and animals and bugs are all finished, complete.

The laws of physics are the same on the other stars and planets as they are here. If we can't ever get to a planet someplace (why would we want to? How would we know there was one out there that had anything we wanted to take the trouble to travel so many light years to pay it a visit?)

Only one kind of creature zips around the universe at will, and that is spirits -- angels and demons. That's it. The physical world is trapped in physical laws of physics. I guarantee you we did not even go to the moon. It was a hoax foisted on a gullible American public by a bunch of Illuminati freemasons and Satanists. Jack Parsons who invented the jet propulsion fuel was a student of Aleister Crowley's. They are all Freemasons, liars. The sole purpose of the hoaky moon landing scam was to convince people that interplanetary travel is possible.

NASA can't even get an exploratory satellite to the moon to test out the radiation, which it says it wants to do in lieu of a tentative moon trip in 2020.

Come on. Take a close look at hte moon lander we're told descended down from the tiny space module, the goofy thing made out of roofing paper and gold foil, with the spider legs. The whole thing is so ultra hoaky. It was a scam. The Illuminati are liars, magicians, and they feed us fairy tales through their movies and television and novels. These are the people inventing food that is killing us, Montsanto's crap food that has built in pesticides so when the corn borer takes a bite it will die. Corn that kills the bugs but we are supposed to eat the corn. Sure it looks great, no worm holes, but it's full of poison. And tests have shown that it kills rats when you feed it to them, the genetically modified potatoes and all their crappy fruits and their awful corn. It's all fake. Even the flavors they put in the food are fake. It's all fake. It's like going to a strip tease place and the black lights make the girls look like they are tanned and gorgeous, wearing diamonds and furs, but when the lights come on you see they are all wrinkled and their costumes are dirty and ripped and it's just cheap sequins and frazzled fringie things on them, that their eye lashes are fake, their hair is fake, their body is fake. fake, fake, fake, fake.

This is what this space stuff is -- a big fake lie.

Don't fall for it. Don't let them trick you anymore than they have already. The devil's minions are liars. NASA is Freemason to the core. It's all a scam, a big scam. Lies, lies, lies.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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Why do I believe in aliens?

Maybe then, I wouldnt feel alone anymore...



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by mf_luder

Originally posted by Salt of the Earth

No, there's no mirror. We don't need any mirror to bounce a laser off the moon. Nobody has ever seen any junk left behind.

Check out this dynomite link. This will convince you. Look it over real carefully.

nasascam.bravehost.com...


Here's a link to a NASA film where they talk about taking an exploratory satellite to check out radiation and such for a possible trip to the moon in 2020. They admit the radiation is prohibitive.



[edit on 2-3-2009 by Salt of the Earth]


You're right. Except the Apollo astronauts didn't leave "junk" behind - they left those mirrors.

There's actually 4 reflectors (mirrors). I was off by 3.

Go read this.

cddisa.gsfc.nasa.gov...

Simply saying they don't have reflectors on the moon isn't good enough. I know for a fact they're there. I trust my best friend. There are several other reports about laser range finding and test between the Earth and the Moon here:

search.nasa.gov...


This is bogus. You don't need a mirror to bounce a laser off the moon. Here's an excerpt from a book discussing this laser mirror thing in great detail. It appears that NASA has no coordinates of where any of the moon landings took place anyway or where the supposed mirrors were placed. Even if there were mirrors left (which there were not), nobody knows where they are because NASA has no coordinates. It's not something you can check out with a telescope. You must know where they are located and there is absolutely no way to know, according to NASA itself. Also, the laser beam spreads out, and -- well, just read it for yourself. The Mod will be cutting us off here because we're getting off track. But really, look at the sites I sent you. No possible way, Jose.
books.google.com...,+moon,+hoax&source=bl&ots=234idimJ_o&sig=N3G7as7Mluhh0RFZ peeINjReARQ&hl=en&ei=NIqsSfzMIoPUNPu6vO4E&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=9&ct=result#PPA219,M1" target='_blank' class='tabOff'/>



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 08:27 PM
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Originally posted by Salt of the Earth
God isn't wasting anything. There is life teeming in the deep of the ocean, it's everywhere on earth, things we haven't seen or known. The answer is in the Bible.


Not a very good argument.

God would be wasting a TON of real estate. Yes, life on this planet is beautiful, but you need to stop and think about what it is you're looking at when you peer up into the sky. You're not looking at the light from other galaxies. You're looking at the light from stars in your own galaxy. You can't even see the light from the billions of other galaxies out there. You need a very high-powered telescope to do it. Why must you assume there's no life out there. It's ridiculous. This obvious truth isn't even at odds with modern Christianity. People try to make it so, but it only confirms that Jesus was who we was.

And yes, got made the heavens for his glory and to illustrate to us just how magnificant he is, but that's also true of the other civilizations who look up into their night sky and see our star as part of THEIR landscape.


Originally posted by Salt of the Earth
The laws of physics are the same on the other stars and planets as they are here.


How can you assert something like that? How do you backup a claim like that, either through the scripture or through modern astrophysics?


Originally posted by Salt of the Earth
Only one kind of creature zips around the universe at will, and that is spirits -- angels and demons. That's it.


Well, not according to THOUSANDS of eye-witness accounts throughout the ages. Many people have reported seeing UFOs: cylindrical silver metallic like objects. There have been HUNDREDS of mass sightings throughout the years as well. Perhaps some of these vehicles have angels inside them, perhaps not.


Originally posted by Salt of the Earth
The physical world is trapped in physical laws of physics. I guarantee you we did not even go to the moon.


I wouldn't be surprised if that were true. I'm not cynical person by nature, but when you look at the track record of this government, how secrets have been kept, how power has been consolidated into the hands of a select few .... well, it's not hard to see at all how we're being bamboozled.

Can we at least agree on that?


[edit on 2-3-2009 by Rakshan]



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by Rakshan

Well, not according to THOUSANDS of eye-witness accounts throughout the ages. Many people have reported seeing UFOs: cylindrical silver metallic like objects. There have been HUNDREDS of mass sightings throughout the years as well. Perhaps some of these vehicles have angels inside them, perhaps not.


There are two kinds of UFOs from what I've read. I've never seen one myself, but I definitely believe they exist, and I expect to someday see a ton of them because the Illuminati is going to launch a fake alien invasion I believe.

But there are actual bona fide aircraft that look like saucers, some of them, and they can hover and have antigravity features. These are built by our own black ops military and stored in the DUMBs (Deep Underground Military Bases).

Other UFOs are manifestations of demons. Demons can take any shape and it was Satan's idea from the beginning to get mankind believing in aliens from another planet, so he and his minions could hide behind this "scientific" front and manifest that way. This is the reason for all the space movies from Hollywood, the ET movie, the whole lot of them.

The lights that go in formation and zip around and disappear and pop up here and there, that are kind of see-through are the spirits manifesting.

There are very many spacecraft, and also many grays and other poor creatures bred in the Nazi labs and they will be used in the staged alien invasion also.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 08:47 PM
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For me, ufos are not a matter of belief, because I have seen them, (years ago) along with a couple other witnesses. I had been, this past couple of years, questioning though, as to if they are "extraterrestrial aliens in spaceships", or something more paranormal, interdimensional, yea, even religious, or something from within this earth. HOWEVER: We all might get our "spaceship" confirmation pretty soon. Talk-host George Noory of Coast-To-CoastAM, has his producer in contact with a military guy who "inherited 18 cannisters of reel-to-reel military film" "some of which shows President Eisenhower with Howard Hughs, in a warehouse, looking at alien bodies and wreckage". They are waiting for this whistleblower to hand over his stuff, as promised.
HOPE it's not another 'Santilli' film!



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by Salt of the Earth
Other UFOs are manifestations of demons. Demons can take any shape and it was Satan's idea from the beginning to get mankind believing in aliens from another planet, so he and his minions could hide behind this "scientific" front and manifest that way. This is the reason for all the space movies from Hollywood, the ET movie, the whole lot of them.

The lights that go in formation and zip around and disappear and pop up here and there, that are kind of see-through are the spirits manifesting.

There are very many spacecraft, and also many grays and other poor creatures bred in the Nazi labs and they will be used in the staged alien invasion also.



I don't think it's a good idea to assume that all UFOs are Satan's little practical joke on us. Maybe there's some truth to that, but before we can start figuring out things at that level, I think we all need to come together, leave our egos at home, and then figure out how it is that we're alike (as opposed to our practice of always focusing on how we're different).



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by simonecharisse
For me, ufos are not a matter of belief, because I have seen them, (years ago) along with a couple other witnesses. I had been, this past couple of years, questioning though, as to if they are "extraterrestrial aliens in spaceships", or something more paranormal, interdimensional, yea, even religious, or something from within this earth. HOWEVER: We all might get our "spaceship" confirmation pretty soon. Talk-host George Noory of Coast-To-CoastAM, has his producer in contact with a military guy who "inherited 18 cannisters of reel-to-reel military film" "some of which shows President Eisenhower with Howard Hughs, in a warehouse, looking at alien bodies and wreckage". They are waiting for this whistleblower to hand over his stuff, as promised.
HOPE it's not another 'Santilli' film!



Stories like this have been around for years, and I for one hope they're true! Don't get your hopes set on it, though. If it does happen, who's going to cover the story? Really, stop and ask yourself that VERY important question ... who would cover that story? CNN? FOX?



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 09:01 PM
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You make an --excellent-- point rakshan. The mainstream Media, will be ordered by their handlers to avoid this disclosure, like it's anthrax. It will be relegated to 'Coast', to which daytime people, as-it-were, snicker, unfortunately.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by simonecharisse
You make an --excellent-- point rakshan. The mainstream Media, will be ordered by their handlers to avoid this disclosure, like it's anthrax. It will be relegated to 'Coast', to which daytime people, as-it-were, snicker, unfortunately.


Precisely, my friend. That's why I would spend my time in the evenings adding content to this conversation here on these forums ... you're NOT going to get an honest debate on this particular issue in the mainstream media. That's fine, though. We'll have it here.

People have to want to stop being spoon fed the news. It's just too much work for some folks, and who can blame them? In the USA, we're in the middle of a mess. Who has time to worry about things like this we're you're trying to keep your family fed.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by Tokis Phoenix
As the title says, why do you believe in alien UFO's? With all the space debris floating around, top secret advanced military aircraft technology and weird & rare weather phenomenons going around, why do you believe there are alien UFO's?

IMHO it would be nice to believe that advanced aliens existed and all that, but so far i have never seen any convincing evidence that UFO's have anything to do with aliens. Even if i had a personal experience seeing a UFO for myself, i would likely put it down to something like top secret military stuff or falling space debris etc.


because experts from all those fields have disclosed information and have told their experiences. experiences outside of their understanding. hundreds(if not thousands now) of highly credible and highly respected people with the highest of security clearances have come clean with their experiences. they have provided testimony which could be used in court. this is in many ways much stronger evidence than any video or picture. there is also plenty of physical trace evidence of something out of the ordinary in many of the cases over the past 60 or so years. all you have to do is some REAL research, and there is no other conclusion you can come to other than, there is definitely something to all this. if you don't come to this conclusion, then you still have a lot of research to accomplish. it really is as simple as that.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by Tokis Phoenix
 


Although i am 100% convinced of UFO's in general, my conviction of Alien operated UFO's is not quite 100% but I do have an inclination to believe it and at least pursue leads that may fill in gaps in my knowledge.

So here goes what makes me lean in this direction:

On February 13 2008 Michael Salla reported some email from some anonymous source about a secret UN meeting on ET UFO's. I took this with a grain of salt.

On March of the same year Michael Salla reported about a specific source that had provided this information. The alleged meetings included representation from the Vatican. Paraphrasing, the objective of said meetings was to gradually release ET information and acclimate the public.

So, I still didn't quite want to believe that. After all, it's just some allegation.

But then, in May of the same year, the Vatican makes an announcement that ET's may be free from original sin... Odd subject for the catholic church if you ask me, and a very startling coincidence....

between that day, and today, France, UK, Denmark, Canada, Brazil, Mexico, and I forget how many other countries.... opened their UFO archives to the public.

So many countries opening their archives on UFO files is beyond coincidence. Releases of information like that are costly and wasteful, unless there is a reason behind them. I believe that ... whatever that reason may be.... it is of GLOBAL scope because it is having a global influence. Impending extraterrestrial contact is one of those things that could fit the seemingly synchronized release of UFO information. Although another theory going around is that this is part of a conspiracy to fake ET contact in order to start a one world government... I don't like that theory myself.

So, what I like about this piece of potential evidence is that ... it is falsifiable. If it is true, then we would have seen an increase in numbers of reports on UFO's, and if it is not, then the volume of UFO chatter in the media will simply go up and down like all passing trends.

Well, Looking at the present situation, the volume of reports has steadily increased for the last two years, and 2009 is only beginning, wait until summer when people spend more hours outdoors and we will see if something is up.


The other thing that compels me towards the ET visitation hypothesis is low altitude sightings over populated areas, especially those sightings reported by police.

Black ops or secret technology would not be tested in populated areas, there already exist areas for such tests to take place, Groom Lake, Woomera, etc.

The theories that fit with those sightings include:
1. ET visitation
2. Cryptoterrestrials
3. A very gradual shadow government takeover
4. Vehicles from enemy countries (china, Russia) just hovering motionless over some police car somewhere.

Alternative 4 is just so hard to imagine, Why would an enemy country UFO just hover there motionless instead of take action?
Alternative 3 is kind of ridiculous. If a shadow government were to attempt a take over it would be sudden I suspect, not in gradual "sightings"

Alternative 2 is very unsupported by evidence, but cannot be proven false either. Might as well say it's angels

Alternative 1, only has the supposed problem of FTL travel. But the problem with this objection is that it assumes too many things that are potentially wrong: FTL travel is not discounted by relativity, it's only that closed timelike curves MAY lead to causality violations. But FTL travel may be possible as long as nobody attempts to close the curve.

Second: There exist star systems that are only a few dozen light years away. That trip is not impossibly long.

So, as much as all alternatives may be hard to believe, ET visitation is the least weird.

If the evidence comes and slaps me in the face (with a personal sighting of an alien or disclosure) you will see how quickly we will rationalize all those objections away. If not, our debates will go on.


-rrr



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