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Evolution, It's only a theory

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posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 02:54 PM
link   
reply to post by John Matrix
 


Ok so you present evidence that the Earth is Young, I will present evidence to the contrary.

A Creation "Science" Geologic Time Scale:

(1) 4000 B.C. Creation Week: (laws of science suspended)
Day 1 - Space, light & dark, earth materials.
Day 2 - Waters above and waters below.
Day 3 - Earth's crust and plants.
Day 4 - Sun, moon, and stars in place.
Day 5 - Atmosphere + animals of the waters.
Day 6 - Land animals + Adam & Eve.
Day 7 - Day of rest.

1,500 years. Pre-Flood "Geology." (Laws of science still invalid.)

(2) Adam and Eve, talking snakes, etc.
(3) World's waters are in great Venus-like atmosphere or in ground
water. No rain, no ocean basins.
(4) Radiometric dating invalid; speed of light changed.
(5) Humans, dinosaurs, mammals, the "works," all live together in
peace. Both lions and Tyranosaurus Rex are vegetarians in Eden
before the "fall."
(6) Human life spans up to 900 years.
(7) Battle of Satan and angels produces craters on moon.

Flood Year: Flood "Geology" - ONE year of normal "science"
Rain - 40 days

(8) Big animals run to mountain tops. Not a single dumb human caught
in all the early flood sediments. All dinosaurs washed off only
in
middle flood-time.
(9) Coral reefs (Guadalupe Mountains of Texas) grow to thicknesses of
half a mile during single year.
(10) Vast coal beds accumulate one on top of another, each as original
swamp deposits on order of 100 feet thick, all in one year.
(11) Mile-thick salt formations in Utah form by evaporation (!) of
seawater during (!) the flood.
Flood - about 250 days.
(12) Most of the world's sedimentary rocks dumped on continents to
average thickness of one mile, almost entirely during the flood
year.
(13) Most continental drift occurs. Flood waters drain into the newly
formed ocean basins. Atlantic opens at average rate of 1/2 mile
per
hour.
(14) Most deep sea sediments (average about 1,500 feet thick) collect
on the newly opened ocean floors.
(15) Hawaiian volcano built 30,000 feet high on new sea floor. (Cools
enough for birds and plants from Ark to colonize soon after end
of
flood year.

Final Retreat - ? 100 days:

(16)Volcano of Mount Ararat built 7,000 feet high underwater and cools
in time for grounding of the Ark.
(17) Successive Yellowstone ash beds bury 10 to 27 forests one on top
of another, all grown during single year.
(18) Grand Canyon cut by receding flood waters. Flood sediments
de-water and harden in one year to rock strong enough to stand as
steep, mile-high cliffs.

Post-Flood Geology - 4,500 years of normal science to Present:

(19)From Ark, Noah directs streams of distinctive animal and plant
communities to migrate to Africa, Australia, South America, etc.
(Ferry service ?) (Some creationists use post-flood continental
drift at rates up to one mile per hour !)
(20)Sun stands still for Israelite battle. Earth stops rotating and
then starts again due to near-miss by Venus out of its orbit ?
(Velikovsky)
(21)Only one ice age as post-flood atmosphere cools.
Geologists' abundant evidence of many great ice advances
separated by sub-tropical vegetation and development of thick
soil zones
between some advances are wrong.
(22)Late-flood granite masses, formed at 1,000 degrees (F.), cool to
present low temperatures at rates in violation of all laws of
thermal
physics. Fit to radiometric dates is mere coincidence.
(23)Extreme rates of continental drift typical of flood (1/2 mile per
hour) suddenly slow to present-day laser-measured rates of inches
per
year. Accord of present rates with radiometric dates is mere
chance.
(24)Coral reefs (Bikini, Eniwetok) grow 1/2 to 1 mile thick in first
1,000 years (rate of one foot per month) then slow to present
measured
rates of inches per century.

(I did not write this, but I don't know where to cite the list)

Yea.. cause this all makes such perfect sense.


[edit on 5-3-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]




posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 03:14 PM
link   
reply to post by Aermacchi
 


Apparently you missed the point of my analogy.

You would want the horse that has a better chance of winning, if in the end, both horses would pay out the same.

And for being a scientist/theologists- whats that got to do with ANYTHING? Sorry I do not have a PhD in either field...especially theology - I would rather spend my time doing something useful.



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 03:32 PM
link   

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown
reply to post by John Matrix
 


Ok so you present evidence that the Earth is Young, I will present evidence to the contrary.

A Creation "Science" Geologic Time Scale:

(1) 4000 B.C. Creation Week: (laws of science suspended)
Day 1 - Space, light & dark, earth materials.
Day 2 - Waters above and waters below.
Day 3 - Earth's crust and plants.
Day 4 - Sun, moon, and stars in place.
Day 5 - Atmosphere + animals of the waters.
Day 6 - Land animals + Adam & Eve.
Day 7 - Day of rest.

1,500 years. Pre-Flood "Geology." (Laws of science still invalid.)

(2) Adam and Eve, talking snakes, etc.
(3) World's waters are in great Venus-like atmosphere or in ground
water. No rain, no ocean basins.
(4) Radiometric dating invalid; speed of light changed.
(5) Humans, dinosaurs, mammals, the "works," all live together in
peace. Both lions and Tyranosaurus Rex are vegetarians in Eden
before the "fall."
(6) Human life spans up to 900 years.
(7) Battle of Satan and angels produces craters on moon.

Flood Year: Flood "Geology" - ONE year of normal "science"
Rain - 40 days

(8) Big animals run to mountain tops. Not a single dumb human caught
in all the early flood sediments. All dinosaurs washed off only
in
middle flood-time.
(9) Coral reefs (Guadalupe Mountains of Texas) grow to thicknesses of
half a mile during single year.
(10) Vast coal beds accumulate one on top of another, each as original
swamp deposits on order of 100 feet thick, all in one year.
(11) Mile-thick salt formations in Utah form by evaporation (!) of
seawater during (!) the flood.
Flood - about 250 days.
(12) Most of the world's sedimentary rocks dumped on continents to
average thickness of one mile, almost entirely during the flood
year.
(13) Most continental drift occurs. Flood waters drain into the newly
formed ocean basins. Atlantic opens at average rate of 1/2 mile
per
hour.
(14) Most deep sea sediments (average about 1,500 feet thick) collect
on the newly opened ocean floors.
(15) Hawaiian volcano built 30,000 feet high on new sea floor. (Cools
enough for birds and plants from Ark to colonize soon after end
of
flood year.

Final Retreat - ? 100 days:

(16)Volcano of Mount Ararat built 7,000 feet high underwater and cools
in time for grounding of the Ark.
(17) Successive Yellowstone ash beds bury 10 to 27 forests one on top
of another, all grown during single year.
(18) Grand Canyon cut by receding flood waters. Flood sediments
de-water and harden in one year to rock strong enough to stand as
steep, mile-high cliffs.

Post-Flood Geology - 4,500 years of normal science to Present:

(19)From Ark, Noah directs streams of distinctive animal and plant
communities to migrate to Africa, Australia, South America, etc.
(Ferry service ?) (Some creationists use post-flood continental
drift at rates up to one mile per hour !)
(20)Sun stands still for Israelite battle. Earth stops rotating and
then starts again due to near-miss by Venus out of its orbit ?
(Velikovsky)
(21)Only one ice age as post-flood atmosphere cools.
Geologists' abundant evidence of many great ice advances
separated by sub-tropical vegetation and development of thick
soil zones
between some advances are wrong.
(22)Late-flood granite masses, formed at 1,000 degrees (F.), cool to
present low temperatures at rates in violation of all laws of
thermal
physics. Fit to radiometric dates is mere coincidence.
(23)Extreme rates of continental drift typical of flood (1/2 mile per
hour) suddenly slow to present-day laser-measured rates of inches
per
year. Accord of present rates with radiometric dates is mere
chance.
(24)Coral reefs (Bikini, Eniwetok) grow 1/2 to 1 mile thick in first
1,000 years (rate of one foot per month) then slow to present
measured
rates of inches per century.

(I did not write this, but I don't know where to cite the list)

Yea.. cause this all makes such perfect sense.


[edit on 5-3-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]


If you are going to STEAL other peoples work, the least you could do is credit them and by all means use "external quotes" .

If anyone would like to see how creationist destroyed this sillyness in the same forum they can go here where this guy stole it from

www.redhotpawn.com...

In the meantime


[edit on 5-3-2009 by Aermacchi]



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 03:35 PM
link   

Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
reply to post by Aermacchi
 


Apparently you missed the point of my analogy.

You would want the horse that has a better chance of winning, if in the end, both horses would pay out the same.

And for being a scientist/theologists- whats that got to do with ANYTHING? Sorry I do not have a PhD in either field...especially theology - I would rather spend my time doing something useful.


First it wasn't ME saying the outcome would be the same, it was YOU, so don't accuse me of missing the point when your point wasn't made. The least you could do is admit it

As for this analogy I still don't see what probability in horse racing has to do with how you malign Religion in a silly comparison with science when they are NOT the same thing.




[edit on 5-3-2009 by Aermacchi]



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 03:40 PM
link   

Originally posted by John Matrix
I have some questions.

1. Why is there only 10,000 years of space dust accumulations on the moon's surface.


First of all, AnswersinGensis.com even acknowledges that this argument is no longer useful. Link


Originally posted by John Matrix
2. Why is the oldest reef in the world(great barrier reef) dated at 4,400 years old?


According to the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority, the current, living reef structure is believed to have begun growing on the older platform about 20,000 years ago.[21] The Australian Institute of Marine Science agrees, which places the beginning of the growth of the current reef at the time of the Last Glacial Maximum. At around that time, the sea level was 120 metres (390 ft) lower than it is today. (Taken From Wikipedia entry on Great Barrier Reef)


Originally posted by John Matrix
3. Why does the accumulation of space dust (mostly iron and nickel) on the ocean floor represent only 10,000 years of accumulations.


A cubic meter of sea floor mud from the center of the Pacific Ocean contains all of the extraterrestrial particles that have accumulated over some 500,000 years. This long collection time allows rare particles to be captured. Most cosmic dust particles in the 0.1 to 1-millimeter range are magnetic, a property that allows them to be separated out from terrestrial matter. UW researchers developed the "Cosmic Muck Rake," a sled-like device that allows magnetic space dust to be collected from the ocean floor. The rake is towed through the water at depths of about 5 kilometers and picks up some tens of thousands of cosmic dust particles in a day.
Link


Originally posted by John Matrix
4. If the moon is moving away from the earth at a rate of 3.8 cm per year, how close would it have been to earth 50,000 years ago, and what effect would that have on ocean tides? Wash over the continents maybe?


The exact rate of the Moon's movement away from Earth has varied a lot over time. It depends both on the distance between the Earth and the Moon, and the exact shape of the Earth. The details of continents and oceans moving around on Earth actually change the rate, which make it a very hard thing to estimate. The rate is currently slowing down slightly, and it is estimated that in about 15 billion years the Moon's orbit will stop increasing in size. Link


Originally posted by John Matrix
5. How come there is evidence of flooding all over the planet?


All I have to say is, Where did all that water go? It had to be alot if it was high enough to cover the continents.

I will answer the rest later.



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 03:42 PM
link   

Originally posted by Aermacchi
If you are going to STEAL other peoples work, the least you could do is credit them and by all means use "external quotes" .

If anyone would like to see how creationist destroyed this sillyness in the same forum they can go here where this guy stole it from

www.redhotpawn.com...

In the meantime


First of all I DID NOT claim this as my work. If you would have read the bottom you would have noticed that it said "I did not write this but I don't know where to cite it"



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 03:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown

Originally posted by John Matrix
I have some questions.

1. Why is there only 10,000 years of space dust accumulations on the moon's surface.


First of all, AnswersinGensis.com even acknowledges that this argument is no longer useful. Link


Originally posted by John Matrix
2. Why is the oldest reef in the world(great barrier reef) dated at 4,400 years old?


According to the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority, the current, living reef structure is believed to have begun growing on the older platform about 20,000 years ago.[21] The Australian Institute of Marine Science agrees, which places the beginning of the growth of the current reef at the time of the Last Glacial Maximum. At around that time, the sea level was 120 metres (390 ft) lower than it is today. (Taken From Wikipedia entry on Great Barrier Reef)


Originally posted by John Matrix
3. Why does the accumulation of space dust (mostly iron and nickel) on the ocean floor represent only 10,000 years of accumulations.


A cubic meter of sea floor mud from the center of the Pacific Ocean contains all of the extraterrestrial particles that have accumulated over some 500,000 years. This long collection time allows rare particles to be captured. Most cosmic dust particles in the 0.1 to 1-millimeter range are magnetic, a property that allows them to be separated out from terrestrial matter. UW researchers developed the "Cosmic Muck Rake," a sled-like device that allows magnetic space dust to be collected from the ocean floor. The rake is towed through the water at depths of about 5 kilometers and picks up some tens of thousands of cosmic dust particles in a day.
Link


Originally posted by John Matrix
4. If the moon is moving away from the earth at a rate of 3.8 cm per year, how close would it have been to earth 50,000 years ago, and what effect would that have on ocean tides? Wash over the continents maybe?


The exact rate of the Moon's movement away from Earth has varied a lot over time. It depends both on the distance between the Earth and the Moon, and the exact shape of the Earth. The details of continents and oceans moving around on Earth actually change the rate, which make it a very hard thing to estimate. The rate is currently slowing down slightly, and it is estimated that in about 15 billion years the Moon's orbit will stop increasing in size. Link


Originally posted by John Matrix
5. How come there is evidence of flooding all over the planet?


All I have to say is, Where did all that water go? It had to be alot if it was high enough to cover the continents.

I will answer the rest later.



You mean you'll STEAL the rest later

your response taken verbatim from en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 03:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown

Originally posted by Aermacchi
If you are going to STEAL other peoples work, the least you could do is credit them and by all means use "external quotes" .

If anyone would like to see how creationist destroyed this sillyness in the same forum they can go here where this guy stole it from

www.redhotpawn.com...

In the meantime


First of all I DID NOT claim this as my work. If you would have read the bottom you would have noticed that it said "I did not write this but I don't know where to cite it"


I also notice you didn't cite arguments in the one forum that refuted YOURS. How convenient. The reason you don't know where to cite it! HA HA HA What you didn't want us to see Creationists argue that one out or was this just a lapse in short term memory

[edit on 5-3-2009 by Aermacchi]



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 03:46 PM
link   

Originally posted by Aermacchi

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown

Originally posted by John Matrix
I have some questions.

1. Why is there only 10,000 years of space dust accumulations on the moon's surface.


First of all, AnswersinGensis.com even acknowledges that this argument is no longer useful. Link


Originally posted by John Matrix
2. Why is the oldest reef in the world(great barrier reef) dated at 4,400 years old?


According to the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority, the current, living reef structure is believed to have begun growing on the older platform about 20,000 years ago.[21] The Australian Institute of Marine Science agrees, which places the beginning of the growth of the current reef at the time of the Last Glacial Maximum. At around that time, the sea level was 120 metres (390 ft) lower than it is today. (Taken From Wikipedia entry on Great Barrier Reef)


Originally posted by John Matrix
3. Why does the accumulation of space dust (mostly iron and nickel) on the ocean floor represent only 10,000 years of accumulations.


A cubic meter of sea floor mud from the center of the Pacific Ocean contains all of the extraterrestrial particles that have accumulated over some 500,000 years. This long collection time allows rare particles to be captured. Most cosmic dust particles in the 0.1 to 1-millimeter range are magnetic, a property that allows them to be separated out from terrestrial matter. UW researchers developed the "Cosmic Muck Rake," a sled-like device that allows magnetic space dust to be collected from the ocean floor. The rake is towed through the water at depths of about 5 kilometers and picks up some tens of thousands of cosmic dust particles in a day.
Link


Originally posted by John Matrix
4. If the moon is moving away from the earth at a rate of 3.8 cm per year, how close would it have been to earth 50,000 years ago, and what effect would that have on ocean tides? Wash over the continents maybe?


The exact rate of the Moon's movement away from Earth has varied a lot over time. It depends both on the distance between the Earth and the Moon, and the exact shape of the Earth. The details of continents and oceans moving around on Earth actually change the rate, which make it a very hard thing to estimate. The rate is currently slowing down slightly, and it is estimated that in about 15 billion years the Moon's orbit will stop increasing in size. Link


Originally posted by John Matrix
5. How come there is evidence of flooding all over the planet?


All I have to say is, Where did all that water go? It had to be alot if it was high enough to cover the continents.

I will answer the rest later.



You mean you'll STEAL the rest later

your response taken verbatim from en.wikipedia.org...


You really are an impatient bafoon. Please read the () after the article taken from wiki.



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 03:47 PM
link   

Originally posted by andre18
Like I said, quit calling it fact and I'll shut up and move on.


For the last time -



darwinwasright.homestead.com...



OK THIS IS JUST AWESOME !!!!
You sir ROCK for posting this

This is the best vid I've seen yet which sums up the FACTS, as the narrator puts it

I gave you a star just for posting this video
This is my special "evolved 8 thumbs up"

[edit on 5-3-2009 by jfj123]

[edit on 5-3-2009 by jfj123]



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 03:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown

Originally posted by Aermacchi

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown

Originally posted by John Matrix
I have some questions.

1. Why is there only 10,000 years of space dust accumulations on the moon's surface.


First of all, AnswersinGensis.com even acknowledges that this argument is no longer useful. Link


Originally posted by John Matrix
2. Why is the oldest reef in the world(great barrier reef) dated at 4,400 years old?


According to the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority, the current, living reef structure is believed to have begun growing on the older platform about 20,000 years ago.[21] The Australian Institute of Marine Science agrees, which places the beginning of the growth of the current reef at the time of the Last Glacial Maximum. At around that time, the sea level was 120 metres (390 ft) lower than it is today. (Taken From Wikipedia entry on Great Barrier Reef)


Originally posted by John Matrix
3. Why does the accumulation of space dust (mostly iron and nickel) on the ocean floor represent only 10,000 years of accumulations.


A cubic meter of sea floor mud from the center of the Pacific Ocean contains all of the extraterrestrial particles that have accumulated over some 500,000 years. This long collection time allows rare particles to be captured. Most cosmic dust particles in the 0.1 to 1-millimeter range are magnetic, a property that allows them to be separated out from terrestrial matter. UW researchers developed the "Cosmic Muck Rake," a sled-like device that allows magnetic space dust to be collected from the ocean floor. The rake is towed through the water at depths of about 5 kilometers and picks up some tens of thousands of cosmic dust particles in a day.
Link


Originally posted by John Matrix
4. If the moon is moving away from the earth at a rate of 3.8 cm per year, how close would it have been to earth 50,000 years ago, and what effect would that have on ocean tides? Wash over the continents maybe?


The exact rate of the Moon's movement away from Earth has varied a lot over time. It depends both on the distance between the Earth and the Moon, and the exact shape of the Earth. The details of continents and oceans moving around on Earth actually change the rate, which make it a very hard thing to estimate. The rate is currently slowing down slightly, and it is estimated that in about 15 billion years the Moon's orbit will stop increasing in size. Link


Originally posted by John Matrix
5. How come there is evidence of flooding all over the planet?


All I have to say is, Where did all that water go? It had to be alot if it was high enough to cover the continents.

I will answer the rest later.



You mean you'll STEAL the rest later

your response taken verbatim from en.wikipedia.org...


You really are an impatient bafoon. Please read the () after the article taken from wiki.
Im not impatient pal YOU are just a liar! You go back and edit that crap after I make mention of it then tell me I missed something! Ha ha ha ha iLL TELL YA WHAT SMART GUY iLL JUST HAVE THE MOD BUST YOU NEXT TIME OK



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 03:51 PM
link   

Originally posted by Aermacchi

I also notice you didn't cite arguments in the one forum that refuted YOURS. How convenient. The reason you don't know where to cite it! HA HA HA What you didn't want us to see Creationists argue that one out or was this just a lapse in short term memory

[edit on 5-3-2009 by Aermacchi]


*Sigh* I didnt even get this from a forum. I've had this document that I pulled of a website some time ago. However I do not have the original link from which it was located. When I get off work I will look into the website you have posted to verify your claims (I can't now because of internet filters)



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 03:52 PM
link   

Originally posted by Aermacchi
Im not impatient pal YOU are just a liar! You go back and edit that crap after I make mention of it then tell me I missed something! Ha ha ha ha iLL TELL YA WHAT SMART GUY iLL JUST HAVE THE MOD BUST YOU NEXT TIME OK


OK yea, how can I possibly EDIT your own response in which you quoted me. Why don't you go look at it smart guy.

EDIT: Not to mention the post containing the Wiki entry hasnt even been edited.

[edit on 5-3-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 03:53 PM
link   

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by andre18

Like I said, quit calling it fact and I'll shut up and move on.


For the last time -



darwinwasright.homestead.com...


A theory is made of facts. It’s is an analysis of how reality works, but every theory has holes in it and no theory is complete. That’s why science must remain objective.

No branch of creationism has ever met even one of the criteria required of a theory. They can’t because science demands both accuracy and accountability. So there has to be a way to detect and correct any errors in a given explanation, and determine for certain whether it’s wrong in whole or in part, or whether any of it is true to any degree at all.

A theory has to be tested indefinitely. It demands understanding instead of belief. So it must be based on verifiable evidence; It must explain related observations with a measurable degree of accuracy; It must withstand continuous critical analysis in peer review, and it must be falsifiable too. If it doesn’t fulfill all these conditions at once, then it isn’t science. If it meets none of them, it may be religion.

Intelligent Design isn’t a theory at all. It doesn’t even count as an hypothesis, because it isn’t based on evidence, offers no mechanism, and isn’t falsifiable either. It is backed by nothing and produces nothing because it is nothing but untestable conjecture. None of it has been shown to be right and lots of it have been proven wrong. So it’s useless in any field, because only accurate information can have practical application.

Nothing would ever be promoted to “truth” because truth implies that there’s nothing more to learn. That’s why science –being objective- demands that everything be considered theory no matter how proven it seems to be.

Evolution has survived every test the greatest minds of the modern age have ever been able to pit against it. It’s been demonstrated myriad ways with lab and field experiments, and is further enhanced by compounded revelations in paleontology and systematics, as well as developments in embryology and advances in genomic research and bioengineering. Evolution is now one of the strongest theories in science. There is no fact it doesn’t agree with, and it’s never failed any test.

It is a fact that evolution happens; that biodiversity and complexity does increase, that both occur naturally only by evolutionary means.

It is a fact that alleles vary with increasing distinction in reproductive populations and that these are accelerated in genetically isolated groups.

It is a fact that natural selection, sexual selection, and genetic drift have all been proven to have predictable effect in guiding this variance.

It is a fact that significant beneficial mutations do occur and are inherited by descendant groups, and that multiple independent sets of biological markers exist to trace these lineages backwards over many generations.

It is a fact that birds are a subset of dinosaurs the same way humans are a subset of apes, primates, eutherian mammals, and vertebrate deuterostome animals.

It is a fact that the collective genome of all animals has been traced to its most basal form, and that those forms are also indicated by comparative morphology, physiology, and embryological development.

It is a fact that everything on earth has definite relatives either living nearby or evident in the fossil record.

It is a fact that the fossil record holds hundreds of definitely transitional species even according to it’s strictest definition, and that both microevolution and macroevolution have been directly-observed.

Evolution is a fact!



Or admit that science has redefined the word "fact" to fit into another word they redefined, "theory".


I said this last page i'll say it again -

"Ok so over 30 pages and you still have no clue. Nothing is being redefined, it’s just the significance of theory over fact that is different from what we normally would assume as fact over theory.

In science a theory has more weight then a fact – a fact in science doesn’t mean anything different, it’s just “that in science facts are observations and are much further down the scale in connection with scientific explanations” where as a hypothesis has hard evidence based on facts – facts being the observation (just pieces of data) And then the theory is based on the hypothesis and laws and other scientific theories and then agreed upon and reviewed by many scientists until there is a scientific consensus for it to become a theory.

I explained all this in my op and it’s taken over 30 pages for you to figure it out!"


www.geocities.com...


In science, however, the word "theory" has a very definite meaning. Under the scientific method, the first step in investigation is to gather data and information, in the form of verifiable evidence. (or in other words - facts)Once data has been gathered, the next step is to form a hypothesis which would explain the data. This hypothesis is, quite simply, nothing more than an intelligent guess. (A hypothesis is, in fact, the closest scientific term to what most people mean when they say "theory").

Scientific models can never be stagnant--they are constantly changing and expanding as our knowledge of the universe increases. Thus, scientific models can never be viewed as "the truth". At best, they are an approximation to truth, and these approximations become progressively closer to "the truth" as more testing of new evidence and data is done. However, no scientific model can ever reach "the truth", since no one will ever possess knowledge of ALL facts and data.


[edit on 5-3-2009 by andre18]


OK THIS IS JUST AWESOME !!!!
You sir ROCK for posting this

This is the best vid I've seen yet which sums up the FACTS, as the narrator puts it

I gave you a star just for posting this video
This is my special "evolved 8 thumbs up"


So you admit that ID science is different then creationism science.

We have been saying that for years



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 03:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by B.A.C.

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown
reply to post by andre18
 


In other words Scientific Theory is the Politically correct way of saying "Fact". That's the beauty of science. It will not claim anything a fact if there is a .000000001 chance that something could prove it wrong.



I don't agree.

Many theories are touted as fact, yet they are being constantly revised.

Example:
How many elements are there in the periodic table? 20 years ago it was touted as fact that there were 109. Now we've discovered 6 more.

There are 118 elements I believe. We used to know of less then 118. That doesn't mean that since we've found more elements, the old elements no longer exist.
www.webelements.com...


The first mammals were said as a fact to have evolved 155 million years ago. Now science claims it was more like 200 million years ago.


The Mammal-like Reptiles, or Therapsids first appeared about 285 million years ago near the begiining of the Permian which is well before the dinosaurs. They evolved quickly and many different groups arose. They were very successful until about the end of the Permian, about 245 million years ago, when something catastrophic affected the earth and nearly all of the species then living died out. New species evolved rapidly to fill this empty habitat, among them the first dinosaurs and a few million years later the first mammals.

The first mammal may never be known, but the Genus Morganucodon and in particular Morganucodon watsoni, a 2-3 cm (1 inch) long weasel-like animal whose fossils were first found in caves in Wales and around Bristol (UK), but later unearthed in China, India , North America, South Africa and Western Europe is a possible contender. It is believed to be between 200 MYA and 210 MYA. However Gondwanadon tapani reported from India on the basis of a single tooth in 1994 may be an earlier contender for the title, with a claimed date of 225 MYA.

www.earthlife.net...

But if you'll notice and by your own admission, the only thing changed is the date as it was REFINED. Refining something does not invalidate it completely.



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown

Originally posted by Aermacchi
Im not impatient pal YOU are just a liar! You go back and edit that crap after I make mention of it then tell me I missed something! Ha ha ha ha iLL TELL YA WHAT SMART GUY iLL JUST HAVE THE MOD BUST YOU NEXT TIME OK


OK yea, how can I possibly EDIT your own response in which you quoted me. Why don't you go look at it smart guy.

EDIT: Not to mention the post containing the Wiki entry hasnt even been edited.

[edit on 5-3-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]


THIS IS WHAT I MEAN IF YOU WANT TO PLAY DUMB


[edit on 5-3-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]



[edit on 5-3-2009 by Aermacchi]



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown
reply to post by John Matrix
 


Ok so you present evidence that the Earth is Young, I will present evidence to the contrary.

A Creation "Science" Geologic Time Scale:

(1) 4000 B.C. Creation Week: (laws of science suspended)
Day 1 - Space, light & dark, earth materials.
Day 2 - Waters above and waters below.
Day 3 - Earth's crust and plants.
Day 4 - Sun, moon, and stars in place.
Day 5 - Atmosphere + animals of the waters.
Day 6 - Land animals + Adam & Eve.
Day 7 - Day of rest.

1,500 years. Pre-Flood "Geology." (Laws of science still invalid.)

(2) Adam and Eve, talking snakes, etc.
(3) World's waters are in great Venus-like atmosphere or in ground
water. No rain, no ocean basins.
(4) Radiometric dating invalid; speed of light changed.
(5) Humans, dinosaurs, mammals, the "works," all live together in
peace. Both lions and Tyranosaurus Rex are vegetarians in Eden
before the "fall."
(6) Human life spans up to 900 years.
(7) Battle of Satan and angels produces craters on moon.

Flood Year: Flood "Geology" - ONE year of normal "science"
Rain - 40 days

(8) Big animals run to mountain tops. Not a single dumb human caught
in all the early flood sediments. All dinosaurs washed off only
in
middle flood-time.
(9) Coral reefs (Guadalupe Mountains of Texas) grow to thicknesses of
half a mile during single year.
(10) Vast coal beds accumulate one on top of another, each as original
swamp deposits on order of 100 feet thick, all in one year.
(11) Mile-thick salt formations in Utah form by evaporation (!) of
seawater during (!) the flood.
Flood - about 250 days.
(12) Most of the world's sedimentary rocks dumped on continents to
average thickness of one mile, almost entirely during the flood
year.
(13) Most continental drift occurs. Flood waters drain into the newly
formed ocean basins. Atlantic opens at average rate of 1/2 mile
per
hour.
(14) Most deep sea sediments (average about 1,500 feet thick) collect
on the newly opened ocean floors.
(15) Hawaiian volcano built 30,000 feet high on new sea floor. (Cools
enough for birds and plants from Ark to colonize soon after end
of
flood year.

Final Retreat - ? 100 days:

(16)Volcano of Mount Ararat built 7,000 feet high underwater and cools
in time for grounding of the Ark.
(17) Successive Yellowstone ash beds bury 10 to 27 forests one on top
of another, all grown during single year.
(18) Grand Canyon cut by receding flood waters. Flood sediments
de-water and harden in one year to rock strong enough to stand as
steep, mile-high cliffs.

Post-Flood Geology - 4,500 years of normal science to Present:

(19)From Ark, Noah directs streams of distinctive animal and plant
communities to migrate to Africa, Australia, South America, etc.
(Ferry service ?) (Some creationists use post-flood continental
drift at rates up to one mile per hour !)
(20)Sun stands still for Israelite battle. Earth stops rotating and
then starts again due to near-miss by Venus out of its orbit ?
(Velikovsky)
(21)Only one ice age as post-flood atmosphere cools.
Geologists' abundant evidence of many great ice advances
separated by sub-tropical vegetation and development of thick
soil zones
between some advances are wrong.
(22)Late-flood granite masses, formed at 1,000 degrees (F.), cool to
present low temperatures at rates in violation of all laws of
thermal
physics. Fit to radiometric dates is mere coincidence.
(23)Extreme rates of continental drift typical of flood (1/2 mile per
hour) suddenly slow to present-day laser-measured rates of inches
per
year. Accord of present rates with radiometric dates is mere
chance.
(24)Coral reefs (Bikini, Eniwetok) grow 1/2 to 1 mile thick in first
1,000 years (rate of one foot per month) then slow to present
measured
rates of inches per century.

(I did not write this, but I don't know where to cite the list)

Yea.. cause this all makes such perfect sense.


[edit on 5-3-2009 by ExistenceUnknown]


Everything on this list is refuted on the same website you got it from.

Also, I'm a creatiionist, but I don't believe everything on the list.

Example: The Bible doesn't state that the Ark landed on Mount Ararat. It says the Ark landed on the mountains of Ararat. Could be any one of hundreds of mountains. (Again, just an example, I don't agree with quite a few things on this list).



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by Aermacchi
 


Why don't you go LOOK at the post where you first quoted what I said and see if it is in there BEFORE you accused me of stealing. See how the () saying I didnt know where to cite the information is in the QUOTE that you yourself wrote?

The Second time you accused me of editing in the Wiki entry on the Reef HAS NOT been edited.



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown

Originally posted by Aermacchi

I also notice you didn't cite arguments in the one forum that refuted YOURS. How convenient. The reason you don't know where to cite it! HA HA HA What you didn't want us to see Creationists argue that one out or was this just a lapse in short term memory

[edit on 5-3-2009 by Aermacchi]


*Sigh* I didnt even get this from a forum. I've had this document that I pulled of a website some time ago. However I do not have the original link from which it was located. When I get off work I will look into the website you have posted to verify your claims (I can't now because of internet filters)


Fair enough then, Ill check out the video it may take a while I am on dialup in the sticks. I live in the sonoran desert



posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by Aermacchi
Originally posted by jfj123

The difference is that evolution is supported by mountains of factual material and your faith is supported by your faith



My faith? what does that have to do with science? I thought you evolutionists debunked my faith long ago?
It's not sciences job to debunk your faith only to further science. We have no interest in your faith.


I still seem to have it nevertheless but I won't deny you your added delusions.

What delusions? Please be specific and be specific as to why they are delusions.


My faith is the hope of things promised the evidence of things unseen. You may have a problem with that but I do not.

Again, I don't care about your personal faith one way or the other. That's your person faith and you welcome to it as long as it does not interfere with evidence supported science.


I'm sorry you're having trouble with this concept.
What I meant is that there is a large amount of factual, scientific data that supports the theory of evolution. Examples of this large amount of factual data have been posted throughout this thread which you obviously have not read or you wouldn't have made this comment in the first place.



Yes I am having trouble with it because as it would seem this is not an exact science for you .

What are you talking about?


Nor does your attempt to elaborate what you first tried to explain was a mountain, now is a "large amount" of "factual" data posted throughout this thread when I haven't seen a damn thing "Factual"

People are posting factual, scientific data on every thread. Your failure to read it doesn't make it any less valid. We can't make you read or understand science, that's up to you my friend.


and you would think if anyone would believe in things "unseen" it would those capable of having faith in things unseen. I still don't see a large amount of anythng whatever a large amount is in your mind, I suppose it is again analagous to the already alleged mountain but I can't say for sure.

Poor attempt at deflection to avoid the truth.
There is scientific evidence to support evolution. Can you refute that scientific evidence? If not, then your comments are a waste of everyone's time. Even the Vatican supports the theory of evolution

LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI said the debate raging in some countries — particularly the United States and his native Germany — between creationism and evolution was an “absurdity,” saying that evolution can coexist with faith.

The pontiff, speaking as he was concluding his holiday in northern Italy, also said that while there is much scientific proof to support evolution, the theory could not exclude a role by God.

www.msnbc.msn.com...


OK disprove the theory of evolution.



Don't you hate it when someone tells you to "prove god doesn't exist"?

You claim there is no science behind the theory of evolution. People have posted that science so it's no upon you to disprove the science posted. Good luck



Well that is what you are asking me to prove with evolution and until someone can PROVE it exists in the first place,,

It's been done. Your turn



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