Billions More For AIG

The whole idea of insurance is a fraud to begin with, it's one of the lowest forms of crime in my book, as it seeks to profit from one of human kinds most beautiful characteristics: solidarity.
In the past when someone's home burnt down, the community got together to built the family a new one. Simple.

Insurance companies are the offspring of Banks, which is offspring from money, which is offspring from trade which is offspring from private property:

"This is my land, my orchard, my apples".
(but the apples start rotting before they can eat them all so they needed a trade substitute that doesn't rot, like metal coins.)

They feed off of our segregation, our distrust of each other, and in that sense we are to blame as well.
However, the AIG bailouts make me extremely angry , especially since they took it to a 5 star luxury resort to chill out and spend our tax money...

Not to mention the interesting issues raised in "Who Killed John O'Neill" about AIG being involved in 9/11...

Can you imagine billions in bailout dollars being handed to 9/11 perps?

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by LostNemesis


So I wonder if this is going to upset the American tax payers even more.... It wasn't long ago that a huge sum was given to AIG, and now they are returning to ask for more.

I know this sounds naive, however, as long as I have my life insurance with AIG, I want the gov to keep them afloat.

Sorry... I've just paid enough on it, that I need it to stay legit.

This is one tax payer not upset by that portion of the bailout.

even if AIG went under you would not loose anything. Your backed by the federal goverment. The goverment would take your contract and sell it to someone else to maintain. You would not loose anything.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


The question you should be asking yourself is where is the money that they has been taking from you and every other person insured with them.

So far is not transparency on what they have been doing with billions if not trillions of dollars that has been lost in their supposed deals.

They are a corrupted entity that took too much from people and squandered somewhere else.

I know you have a reason to support them but as for me honestly and personally I rather do not do business with corrupted entities.

And that is what AIG is.

reply to post by Psynarchist


That my friend is one that I find hard to swallow also, this corrupted fat rats has been getting their big arses fat with people's money and now they claim that is lost? trillions of dollars lost?

They were not so worry when they took the first tax payer bail out and went to California resorts to vent their stress after being caught robbing their costumers blind.

Oversight, not accountability and no investigation as where and how they spend all that money from the people that trusted them.

Is a shame and a out right disgusting mess.

I saw on the news (CNN) that year to date AIG has lost over "99 BILLION".

They have received something on the order of 162 BILLION in bailout(s).

This last 30 BILLION is the 3rd??? "bailout" of AIG.

reply to post by mrmonsoon


Exactly and in the same news at least in CNBC they are asking for investigations as where they have been funneling the money to.

Because all that money is has to been going to somewhere.

They call the AIG short criminal acts with intention to defraud people.

Now the government wants to divided them into 3 different entities, for what? to be able to allocate more money using 3 different names?

Yeah, split it up in 3 different companies and 4 years from now people are like:

"What? Who is Blackwater? Who is this Kroll or AIG you keep talking about?"

They change the name coz a new generation of truth seekers is on it's way...
Or perhaps even for legal purposes of accountibility?

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
ok the next post.
Where does the bailout money really go?

ever wonder why the insurance companies are being bailed out?
when aig was bailed,they were worth 12.5 billion. so why does an insurance company need to be 100 times the size it was? 1.4T SO FAR,AND MORE TO COME

i'll do this in as short a story as i can...fasten your seatbelt.

in 2005,2006,2007,subprime loans were made to people that could not afford them. this was due to deregulation.
2005 defaults just hit,2006 comes this year,and 2007 was called a mortgage orgy of unbelievvable proportions,BY THE PEOPLE FROM FANNIE,AND FREDDIE. these are due to hit in 2010.

the people that made these loans knew, who was probably going to fail ,and who was not.
so what they did ,was took out insurance on the most likely to fail.
say that 20 of your friends get this info too,they also can take out insurance on the same house and others.
these are called morgage defalt swaps. its the same as gambling.
if 20 of your friends insure a house that defaults,say the house was mortgaged for 100,000,each one gets 100,000 dollars. quite a deal for gambling about 400.00 dollars on a normal midrange house.
now the insurance companies owe $2,000,000 to the 20 people on one bad loan.

now... remember all the toxic paper that was sold to investors around the world? well the foriegn investors got pissed ,and the dollar started to collapse.
this paper was bought back at pennies on the dollar,and insured here,to raise the price of the dollar. restore faith in the currency in foreign markets.

well the insurance companies couldn't possibly pay off all the winners in the mortgage lottery.HENCE THE BAILOUTS TO THE INS CO'S

now we've had the first round of bailouts,and the money goes right into the pockets of the insiders that knew who to bet on, by way of the insurance companies.

THE MONEY HAS NOW BEEN LAUNDERED.THIS IS WHY THE INS CO'S NEED ALL THIS MONEY.ITS A CIRCLE JERK.
THIS IS THE SHORT FORM,BUT IF YOU LOOK IT UP AND DO YOUR HOMEWORK, you will find out that we have been screwed so bad,we should have all got a kiss.
think about it. why are we bailing out INSURANCE companies,with no responsibility to account for where its going?
and then we LOANED the money to the auto industry,an industry that returns something to the economy.
what do insurance companies return to the economy.NOTHING!!

AND THE JOKE IS ON US. WE NOW OWE IT TO THE FEDERAL RESERVE!!!

and the best part is,that the worse they make the economy,the more defaults occur!!! lucky them. what a surprise!
this is why gold has stalled in a bad economy. it's usually the safe haven,but the boys on wall street,and your federal government have found an investment that dwarfs the metal.
here comes the next bailout at almost another billion. there will be more this year to match the cashout,and as for next year????? OH BABY!!!!!!!!

now i have read that the total will be over 5.7 trillion dollars

NOW WITH HR 45 THEY WANT TO TAKE YOUR GUNS,to protect themselves when everone figures it out.
there's a signature on this site, and it really rings true...the final step of a dying government,is to loot the treasury on the way out the back door.

money.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

what will we do if this is provable
HR 45 WILL PROTECT THE GOVERNMENT...FULL CIRCLE TAKE OVER




[edit on 2-3-2009 by Spectre0o0]

[edit on 2-3-2009 by Spectre0o0]

Credit default swaps are insurance against the loan made by the bank, there is never more than one on a property, rather on the loan (insurance that someone can't pay back the debt) this insurance is actually worth something in a good market (where everyone is paying their mortages because house prices are rising so even if they default sell the property and pay back the loan and there is a profit in the insurance money), so these CD swaps are packaged up and sold into the market place - these are actually traded - people can take out a loan to buy these and then that loan is insured and into the market it goes as another credit default swap.

Everything else you have written is paranoia and conjecture gleaned from reading and misunderstanding too many dodgey websites.

I thought what I had written earlier would have been taken as a hint....

I would never dream of violating the T&C's of ATS, and ask others to band together and write their Congressman, the White House, etc. But the people of the United States CAN make a statement if they wanted to.

Not that I would ever instigate such a thing....just thinking out loud.

I read somewhere that (maybe it was this thread, I apologize) that Congress itself has their poliy's backed by AIG?

Who backs the Military member's policies? Does Obama have personal Life Insurance? (of course he does) How hard would it be to find out who underwrites his policy? AIG? Anyone have a cousin, that has a friend, who knows a guy, that can find out?

Unfortunately AIG really cannot fail unless you want at least a trillion dollars worth of derivatives to collapse and more strain to be put on the financial system which could lead to other derivatives collapsing. Sad but true.

reply to post by RetinoidReceptor


Still how many billions if not trillions is AIG worth to the tax payer in the nation.

It is hard to conceive that AIG tax payer bail outs will be greater than the Obama stimulus to the economy and the nation's budget put together.

Then we don't even know how much are they really are in the hole.

Beside as the economy keeps going down, and people default on almost everything are we to still keeping this companies working?

But working for who.

reply to post by SlinkyDFW

I wouldn't worry about it, something to look forward to I would think. If you post here, it's not much different than posting right on a fed website anyway.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by RetinoidReceptor

 

Still how many billions if not trillions is AIG worth to the tax payer in the nation.

It is hard to conceive that AIG tax payer bail outs will be greater than the Obama stimulus to the economy and the nation's budget put together.

Then we don't even know how much are they really are in the hole.

Beside as the economy keeps going down, and people default on almost everything are we to still keeping this companies working?

But working for who.

Probably till the government owns the whole thing is my guess. I don't like the bail outs and I think they just stall the inevitable, but I really would rather things be slow and gradual than an abrupt depression and crash sending the world into a panic. It is scary enough trading as it is...

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Unfortunately AIG really cannot fail unless you want at least a trillion dollars worth of derivatives to collapse and more strain to be put on the financial system which could lead to other derivatives collapsing. Sad but true.

And that is why we are in this mess - We have been cheated, swindled, defrauded, extorted and blackmailed. It's no different than getting beat up by a bully for your milk money. If you protest or fight back they'll beat you harder and take your lunch money too.

I'm sick of this "death by a thousand cuts". Pull the plug - enough of this keeping them on life support, the end result remains the same. Even five-year- olds are smart enough to know it's much less painful when you rip the band-aid off quickly.

Okay, I'm out of analogies...

reply to post by audas


sure is a lot of dodgy sites. mostly economic. i spent hours and hours researchind=g this. there can be more than one policy on a house. everyone else who researched this ,found the same info.
then why is the company losing money?

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

You should try to get this:

You are paying insurance to AIG.
AIG is broke.
Now you are paying for AIG to stand up again.

You are being robbed and the idea of insurance is bleeding you to death.

You still believe it is your lifesaver.

Absurd and self destructive. Total exploitation.

Do you know why AIG is in the problem it is? Do you realize why AIG lost 62 Billion? It was because of the insurance that was sold on Lehman, and then the speculators who purchased the insurance started down grading lehman, and basically burned it to the ground because it was more profitable. Then they cashed in their Insurance at AIG, and that added up to 62 Billion....

Jim Cramer predicted this last December.

Had we bailed out Lehman... we would have avoided this.

But they were the only ones not bailed out. And NOW you can see the sick game that got played once the conservative plan of deregulation was put in place.

I support this bailout because I understand the alternative. I also support it because I realize it has to happen in order to undue the results of deregulation and basically fund not only the impact-absorption, but also the new way moving forward towards true sustainable success.

I believe in humanity's ability to evolve...

Originally posted by jd140
Hunka-



Well... first off, yes... It's not my duty to by altruistic to others... It is however my duty to pull for the politics of ME.

Remember, all politics are local... and you don't get much more local than this.

Are YOU going to say it's ok that your family doesn't eat just as long as your not being selfish?

PUHLEASE Put your self righteous rhetoric on a shelf... because I don't participate in politics for you... I participate in politics for myself and my family. PERIOD.

Now, when I was in the service, that was for you... but that's all yer getting, other than my tax dollars.

I guess you don't realize that if policticans fail for the majority then they fail for you too. Regardless if what they did was for your good. What this equates to is us paying for you to have life insurance.

Are you okay with us paying for your life insurance if we cannot afford it? How many out there cannot pay for life insurance, but will get their taxes raised so that you can keep yours?

There comes a point when you have to put aside the "me" attitude and think a little more about everyone else.

[edit on 2-3-2009 by jd140]

Not at all, what is this? Bleeding heart conservatism?

It was the conservative movements which deregulated the markets, and now it's the conservative movement yelling about the cost of that deregulation.

I got news for you, the free market is indeed a system of karmic attrition. And what happens to when you push for deregulating growth? You get to pay the price for that when it comes crashing down.

No I find it hilarious, that those who were all for the individualist theories of ME when it did them well in the market are now opposed to the same thing, calling it socialism...

Puhlease.... This is simply Government allowing for a correction...

[edit on 3-3-2009 by HunkaHunka]

[edit on 3-3-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

The question you should be asking yourself is where is the money that they has been taking from you and every other person insured with them.

So far is not transparency on what they have been doing with billions if not trillions of dollars that has been lost in their supposed deals.

They are a corrupted entity that took too much from people and squandered somewhere else.

I know you have a reason to support them but as for me honestly and personally I rather do not do business with corrupted entities.

And that is what AIG is.

How is AIG a corrupted entity? Because they sold insurance?

I just don't get it. It's not their fault Lehman tanked and the insurance on that was 62 billion.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Actually they are more corrupted that you think and if SEC will do their job the fraud that will come from the investigations will atonish many.

They are actually two different entitites run by the same group one that kept the front of a legit business in the insurance business and the other one that sold paper to other banking institutions with not collateral.

Get it, that is fraud.

Essentially, AIG got into the business of insuring much of the world's financial system against the consequences of a global financial meltdown. It turned out to be incapable of delivering on that insurance—no private company could deliver on it, which is one reason why AIG's business of selling credit default swaps was a scam. And so government has stepped in as the ultimate insurer.

The whole idea of the insurance industry is that if I buy insurance from you, you pay off the claims. Absent ability to pay claims, there’s no business there at all. It’s just fraud. Whether or not it meets the legal standard for fraud, I couldn’t say. But in ordinary language sense, it’s a fraud—you’re selling a service you have no capacity to deliver.

andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...

They have been commiting fraud since 2000 but as usual it wasn't until 2008 that they got into court, until this day we don't even know what happen with all the cases against them

Trial Begins in AIG Fraud Case

The trial of five executives in American International Group's financial fraud case got under way Monday, with the prosecutor saying that AIG patriarch Maurice "Hank" Greenberg set the scheme in motion in 2000.

Greenberg was never charged, but four former executives of General Re — whose loss-portfolio transactions with AIG are at the heart of the case — and one former AIG executive are on the hook for allegedly conspiring to manipulate AIG’s financial statements.

www.cfo.com...

Perhaps now that is a new president in the white house we may hear more about the fraud within AIG.

Here's what needs to happen!

www.cnbc.com...

American International Group should be allowed to go bankrupt because keeping it and other sick financials alive on government support risks ruining the US economy, legendary investor Jim Rogers told CNBC Tuesday.
AIG whose $61.66 billion fourth-quarter loss was the largest ever for a US company, received $30 billion more in government funds Monday. The insurer's financial health hasn't improved despite getting as much as $150 billion from the government last year.

"Suppose AIG goes bankrupt, it is better that AIG goes bankrupt and we have a horrible two or three years than that the whole US goes bankrupt," Rogers said. "AIG has trillions of dollars of obligations, let them fail, let the courts sort it out and start over. Otherwise we'll never start over."

On Monday, CEO Edward Liddy told CNBC that the insurer is far more stable and secure than it was last fall but acknowledged that it was "difficult to say" if AIG will need even more money from the government in the future.
Bailing out the banks is going to increase the debt spiral and finally cause the destruction of the world's biggest economy, Rogers said.