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Tomorrow the Dow below 7000 for the first time since April of 1997

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posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 02:34 PM
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Let's not waste time debating who is to blame for this mess because its all of them, Republicans and Democrats. The party tag really doesn't matter anyway because the vast majority are just crooked politicians out to line their own pockets and serve their shadow masters.

President Obama - You OWN this disaster and your policies are directly responsible for our country's rapidly accelerating financial collapse. The market is in freefall, unemployment is worsening by the day and the social fabric of our country is threadbare and nearing the point of tearing. YOU SIR ARE RUINING THIS ONCE GREAT COUNTRY! It matters not what color you are, what nationality you are(really) nor what political party you represent. The only thing that matters Mr. President are your actions and from where I stand, it looks like you are trying to run our national ship onto the rocks.

Wake up America before its too late!




posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Anonymous Avatar
How incredibly trivial to keep track of how far the dow falls during which puppet is serving as potus.

Sure. Absolutely. However, the previous poster tried to make it seem like Bushs administration was worse than Obamas when it comes to the DOW. His/her figures were off. It needed to be addressed and corrected.

I do not see much difference between Bush and Obama. At least when I look at the last year of Bush's administration compared to Obama's first 6 weeks and what he claims he wants to do. They are hand in hand. The very few differences are window dressing (abortion stand for example).



I have never in my life seen a more disingenuous post than this - he collapse did not simply happen over night - it happened on BUSHs watch and Obama is clearly on the receiving end of his pathetic administration - please. Ridiculous post.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Rogue Warrior
Let's not waste time debating who is to blame for this mess because its all of them, Republicans and Democrats. The party tag really doesn't matter anyway because the vast majority are just crooked politicians out to line their own pockets and serve their shadow masters.

President Obama - You OWN this disaster and your policies are directly responsible for our country's rapidly accelerating financial collapse. The market is in freefall, unemployment is worsening by the day and the social fabric of our country is threadbare and nearing the point of tearing. YOU SIR ARE RUINING THIS ONCE GREAT COUNTRY! It matters not what color you are, what nationality you are(really) nor what political party you represent. The only thing that matters Mr. President are your actions and from where I stand, it looks like you are trying to run our national ship onto the rocks.

Wake up America before its too late!


Bush is responsible for this it happened on his watch - he drives the economy straight over a cliff and then hands the wheel to obama - and you blame obama for getting in the car ?

No wonder America is a basket case with people like you posting...seriously.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by Rogue Warrior
Let's not waste time debating who is to blame for this mess because its all of them, Republicans and Democrats. The party tag really doesn't matter anyway because the vast majority are just crooked politicians out to line their own pockets and serve their shadow masters.

President Obama - You OWN this disaster and your policies are directly responsible for our country's rapidly accelerating financial collapse. The market is in freefall, unemployment is worsening by the day and the social fabric of our country is threadbare and nearing the point of tearing. YOU SIR ARE RUINING THIS ONCE GREAT COUNTRY! It matters not what color you are, what nationality you are(really) nor what political party you represent. The only thing that matters Mr. President are your actions and from where I stand, it looks like you are trying to run our national ship onto the rocks.

Wake up America before its too late!


It was already too late at last year's DNC when my Fellow Americans chose Obama as the Demo Candidate. Shame shame shame.

I will now say emphatically the same thing I say to the citizens of Gaza, who freely elected TERRORISTS to govern them: we made our bed now we have to sleep in it.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 02:47 PM
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It doesn't matter whose fault it is. They are all the same, republicans and democrats. We have to get away from the two party system. Our whole system is corrupt and forces us to vote for people who do not represent us at all.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 02:48 PM
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An old time economist and I were discussing (debating, rather) the current financial meltdown-- he preaching the virtues of fractional reserve, velocity and deficit spending as the cure-alls, and me spouting my Ron Paul, Austrian economists (www.mises.org) mantra of small government and humble foreign policy. He mentioned a bounce theory about the stock market. Historically, the market aggregate value has to drop to 40% of 'book' value before investors see it as enough of a bargain to accept risk and start buying again.

At the time of our discussion, the market was around 10,000, which was still just above book or "real" value. 40% of that-- the theoretical bottom-- would then be around 4,000. With GM trading at 1930's prices and most bank shares cheaper than their ATM fees, he may have a point.

My concern is that today, unlike any other time in US history, we don't have any latent manufacturing capacity idling in the background, waiting for the next upswing to start cranking out widgets for the domestic and foreign consumer. What we do have is mountains of debt, with nothing left in our arsenal with which to pay it down.

I guess we'll know soon enough, won't we?



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 02:51 PM
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As an addition to my earlier post…In a surplus system full employment of resources is encouraged. A profit system is a modification of the former system in that in the factor market demand for resources is always kept artificially lower, idle plant and equipment, than supply of resources, so as to keep downward pressure on costs and in the product market, demand for production is always kept artificially higher, use of credit, than supply of products, so as to keep upward pressure on prices; the result is a profit environment.

For far too long Americans have been PREVENTED from working, as the people who did this knew that far more PROFIT was available under a scenario where the government took care of them as opposed to them working and participating in the system, which would lead to higher factor costs and lower product prices, thus less profit.

At this time in history, I am in full support of the devastation I get to watch on TV and my only concern is that we keep the dismantling of this oppressive system orderly to prevent panic. For those who are still worried, just realize you may be suffering from a touch of the Stockholm Syndrome.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by seb118
 


Obviously when capitalism fails, you tend to go socialist. How else can you preferentially favor your own citizens over those who are contributing more wealth to the world market? You can't give your own citizens the quality of life they expect if they aren't creating capital. There's an external pressure by foreign entities to acquire that wealth differential through business transactions. The only way to increase aggregate demand at this point is to get a hold of some resource in high demand. Whether we will invent it or take it from another nation is the pivotal question.

[edit on 2-3-2009 by cognoscente]



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 03:05 PM
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Our current problem is one that has nothing to do with one political party or another. The blame doesn't lie with either Bush or Obama because the true people responsible for this are the people in the major corporations that made the fraudulent decisions to give out loans to people they knew couldn't afford them. I'm here in the Pacific Northwest where Washington Mutual was a huge business in the region, and it's gone today because they were giving out loans to anyone that could fill out the paperwork. They didn't care. That isn't a Bush issue. That isn't an Obama issue. This issue isn't Republican or Democrat. It's a business issue that the American people need to seriously deal with, and that's going to hurt a lot of people because bringing down these giants is going to send ripples throughout the globe. It's going to be huge. But that's what really needs to happen.

We the People of the United States of America need to ask ourselves a fundamental question. "Do we as a People wish to allow companies in the future to become 'Too Big To Fail'?" These companies and their business practices (or lack of business practices as we all witnessed in the likes of Enron), are the ones to blame here. The fingers need not be pointed at Republicans or Democrats because they simply need to be pointed at the CEO's and Boards at the top of these major companies that caused this problem.

The solution is to let these companies fail. They need to fail because we, as a People, can not prop them up. We shouldn't prop them up. Good practices are rewarded, bad practices are punished. It's that simple. The extent of government involvement spans all parties. Everyone is guilty of taking the bribery money from lobbyists. We've allowed this corruption to go on for so long that the big businesses got in on it and made sure that restrictions to their practices were lifted by Congress. The CEO's and Boards of these major companies that did this are the ones that we need to be blaming. They are the ones that did what they did, knowing what would eventually happen. These major CEO's still walk out the doors of major companies as they crash with golden parachute packages. These are the true culprits.

Cleaning out Government by removing people who were making these deals, is the only way to make sure it doesn't continue. These people belong to both parties because their loyalty is to themselves. Writing them won't do any good. Calling won't do it either. Talking to the face to face will only get you lied to. They'll tell you how they are doing everything they can to reverse the problem aside from making the hard choices that are going to hurt big business, and therefore their own campaign contributions.

We ended today with DOW 6763, S&P 701. It's all downhill from here.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by audas
Bush is responsible for this it happened on his watch - he drives the economy straight over a cliff and then hands the wheel to obama - and you blame obama for getting in the car ?

No wonder America is a basket case with people like you posting...seriously.


You might want to educate yourself in the ways of our current banking system before righteously declaring this is Bush's fault.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 03:20 PM
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I think Bush should receive the CREDIT for what has occured...He helped to destroy the monsters who built the profit focused economic system. The war was initiated by the very people who benefitted most from the way things were and Bush didn't back down and instead fought with them. These monsters killed their own people just to see if they could scare the rest of the world into accepting slavery.

Why are so many people sad to see this thing go? Are people so blind as to not see that their liberation approaches? Bush and his policies destroyed an oppressive and unsustainable set-up. Obama is just finishing his work.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by h5mind....... and most bank shares cheaper than their ATM fees, he may have a point.


I know this isn't a funny subject but that line about ATM fees actually made me laugh out loud. I hadn't compared the bank's share prices against their ATM fees.

Apologies if my laughter offends anyone, in this thread.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 03:27 PM
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why are people trying to blame Bush or Obama?, they are just figure heads for the real power.

The market is manouvered by much more powerful men than these 2, your American presidents may be rich, but no where near as rich as the people causing all of this current financial strife.

every politician plays the part they are paid to do and then they move over for the next actor to take the role.

This isn't just happening in the US right now, but it is happening globaly, Bush didn't base the US dollar on oil as a standard, it was done well before him.
The problem may appear to have started in the US, but the power lies off shore.

This is more than just Americans losing jobs, This will be a global depression, not just a US one.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by Rogue Warrior
Bush is responsible for this it happened on his watch - he drives the economy straight over a cliff and then hands the wheel to obama - and you blame obama for getting in the car ?

No wonder America is a basket case with people like you posting...seriously.


Correction:

Bush steered the economy towards the cliff. Ok, I'll give you that.

Instead of turning away from said cliff, Obama and his administration hopped into the car, floored the pedal to the metal causing a nice burnout. Then they started screaming maniacally while tossing handfuls of money out of the sun roof. Now they have their arms up in the air with looks of blissful glee on their face as they reach the edge.

Who appointed Tax Cheat Timmy again, and what exactly is Tax Cheat Timmy supposed to do?

Wheres Obama's bank plan again...? 4 Months since election, over 1 month in office and no plan.

Oh yeah, no bank plan. Instead we got the porkulus bill with Obama's signature on it that no one even read -- including himself.

How about this. Hold Bush responsible for what happened on his watch -- which ended in January. Everything past that is Obama's responsibility and hold him just as accountable.

[edit on 2-3-2009 by Not Authorized]



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 03:42 PM
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CNN presented a nice piece on a town here in the USA that has not been effected by the economy, Fargo North Dakota.

Why do they have 3.4% unemployment?

Only 3 foreclosures this year out of thousands local banks hold?

The banks in town never issued loans to people that did not meet age old criteria for a loan!



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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And I'll bet those banks are mostly local Credit Unions and not National banks, but that is just an assumption.

The banks that made it in the last depression were conservative local banks that were not tied in nationally.




Originally posted by IntelRetard
CNN presented a nice piece on a town here in the USA that has not been effected by the economy, Fargo North Dakota.

Why do they have 3.4% unemployment?

Only 3 foreclosures this year out of thousands local banks hold?

The banks in town never issued loans to people that did not meet age old criteria for a loan!




posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by OuttaHere
It doesn't matter whose fault it is. They are all the same, republicans and democrats. We have to get away from the two party system. Our whole system is corrupt and forces us to vote for people who do not represent us at all.




This is the truth!!!! These people are Ivy league educated millionaires, and you think they're working for the common man give me a break!!!



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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The markets in Asia are getting ready to open. Yesterday, they posted these numbers:

Nikkei 225 = 7280.15 (-288.27 [-3.81%])
Taiwan = 4425.83 (-131.32 [-2.88%])
Hong Kong = 12317.46 (-494.11 [-3.86%])
Australia = 3203.80 (-93.10 [-2.82%])

I'm sure these people will see the numbers from Wall Street today and will fall further, which will make Europe fall further, which will make Wall Street fall further, which will make Asia fall further......

I'm no expert, but that seems to be the trend these days.



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 04:02 PM
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because the true people responsible for this are the people in the major corporations that made the fraudulent decisions to give out loans to people they knew couldn't afford them.


I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. I keep hearing how it's in a very tiny margin the people's fault, but the bulk of the blame lies on the banks because they chose to loan to people. People deserve as MUCH blame as the banks, sorry.

It's pretty simple. If you can't afford 1.5 times the mortgage of a home (mortage is 1200.. you better be able to handle 1800 a month), you shouldn't be buying that home.

You know what people do to get loans? They lie and cheat the system as much as possible, to get that loan, in far too many cases. Or the real estate agent does on your behalf, because people can't take the time to be bothered with reading contracts and such.

I was on a Grand Jury recently, it was 18 months long — a real estate fraud case. Every single person that was a 'victim' of the real estate agent (who was indeed, found guilty on all 18 counts against him), was duped with the greatest of ease. Not ONE took the time to read the contract. EVERY single one lost their home. They got papers in front of them, and they signed them. doh? And among the victims who lost their homes was a cop, a soldier, and a teacher. Supposedly responsible folks.

So.. yes, banks are to blame. Sadly, people are equally to blame. What happened to personal responsibility?



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 04:16 PM
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So.. yes, banks are to blame. Sadly, people are equally to blame. What happened to personal responsibility?


The government no longer believes in personal responsibility. That's part of the 1000 page stimulus bill that no one read, and the president signed (just like your example of a mortgage being put in front of people and they sign without reading it). Instead, the government will give our money away to banks, insurance companies, auto manufacturers, and foreign companies because they, too, have no personal responsibility.

But what ever we do, we MUST NOT LET THEM FAIL!!!! It might hurt their feelings.



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