Tomorrow the Dow below 7000 for the first time since April of 1997

Originally posted by warpboost
Where do you guys think the bottom is roughly? and when will it get there

How much worse will it get before it really stabilizes or begins to recover?

It can go like in the 30s. Loose 90% of its value that s 1300 pts if people loose faith and hope in the economy. I would not think so, though, because many people have since the 30s understood that capital market are vital to irrigate the economy,and that economy is essential to a peaceful society. But I would not be surprise by -60 -70% that s around 5000 pts.

Originally posted by warpboost
Where do you guys think the bottom is roughly? and when will it get there

How much worse will it get before it really stabilizes or begins to recover?

3000. Enjoy the ride. It's going to be a rough one, but people didn't seem to mind when the bubble was being inflated. They thought it was cool as can be. They need to have the front seat on this roller coaster ride back to 3000. The rest of us have to endure it to, even though we didn't do any of the things that caused it (huge mortgages, and tons of credit cards with nothing in the savings account). They deserve this.

Originally posted by Republican08
Wow, it's amazing, but what goes up must come down, great old cliche.

Recently the dow has been playing games, were it starts out the first few hours up some large amount, then a few hours before closing time it's down roughly 100 points...

1000 points down since obama got elected, just keeping score, just keeping score.

Really Keeping score well there eh...

6,000+ point loss under Bush
1,000+ point loss under Obama

I guess at least he's got a lot of catching up to do to ruin the country as much as "The Great One" just did...




Edit to add that I've been calling the bottom at 4,500 for about 2 years now... It's a matter of the Market correcting itself for all the manipulation of the last 15 years.

The nineties were hell on the markets, And those of us that pulled our money out 6 years ago, (before the swandive)are about the only profits that are still going to exist from the 90's market... Sadly mine was High School play and only was worth a few grand...

Anywho... This is the way the Market works... Let it settle, reinvest, specifically in Technology, Medical and Defense Contractor Stocks...

There is money to be made in the market... Even now...

There's an old saying "The best time to buy is when it hurts the most to buy" Though Now doesn't hurt enough for my taste to dive in again. Wait til 5,500-4,500 to buy in again...

[edit on 3/2/2009 by coven]

Remeber, CNBC had criticized Bush for his delaying the 700 billion original TARP money. The "money honey" was aghast that he would let the market fall while the debate was raging. Well, "money skank", after trillions in TARP, how's it looking now???

Originally posted by coven
Really Keeping score well there eh...
6,000+ point loss under Bush
1,000+ point loss under Obama

Really keeping score well there eh ... backatchya.
Where are you getting your figures?

Dow was 9,625 on Obama's election day. Now it's 6,800.
It's lost ~ 2800 since Obama was elected.

Dow went up and down during Bush43.
It went up to a RECORD HIGH during the last half of Bush's second term.
It has since came back down.

When Elected, Bushs DOW was ~10,900.
When he left office, the DOW was ~ 8,300.
The difference between the dates is ~ 2,600 loss.

So far the overall DOW has come down ~ 200 points MORE UNDER OBAMA then Bush.

And whereas the DOW went to a record high under Bush, it is now obviously much lower under Obama... and it keeps sinking under him.

Dow Average - Yahoo Finance

Dow Averages



[edit on 3/2/2009 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by bpg131313

Originally posted by seb118
It is sad that 20 years after the USSR, the USA will undergo a major disaster. THe USSR turned capitalist with pain, and now the USA will turn socialist by necessity with as much pain or even more.

The best solution is refusing to let it go socialist. Nothing good can come from the US going socialist. The Social Security system is a prime example of just how horrible the system would be if we went socialist. The government would see a huge pile of money for a program and would raid it, placing in there and IOU, and then they'd never be able to put the money back. The day that Social Security fails (it'll happen sooner rather than later) will be an indication to everyone of just how capable socialism is in the hands of our government.

The true solution would have been to let the companies that made all the poor decisions, fail. They should have crumbled. GM, Fannie/Freddie Mac, AIG, Bank of America, Chrysler, J.P. Morgan / Chase, and all the others that made the poor choices. If we'd have let them collapse, we'd already have had people stepping forward purchasing up the bits that were worthwhile and the system would begin moving again. Due to government intervention, we're being dragged through this anyway, but at taxpayer expense. We've put sums of money into these firms that just plain hurt. Sums of money they'll never repay us (plus interest of course) and we'll all be out all of that money because the idiots in government think that shoveling money onto a fire will put the thing out.

We need to imprison all of the people in Washington D.C. responsible for this with life sentences without the possibility of parole for the crime of treason. Doing something intentionally knowing the outcome will lead to the collapse of the United States, is treason. Everyone will walk away free. We'll be left with a collapsed system, and someone will come forward and tell us how they'll solve all of our problems because they are going to take 63% of our paychecks in order to pay for all of these "free" programs we're going to be told we have to use. I hope that person, whomever it is, gets struck by lightning while saying that crap for all the world to see.

What you said makes more sense than any govt. plan we've seen, so why did Obama pull the dirty trick on us like he did?

Why didn't the govt. do everything you said, let the crooked ill-managed companies bite the dust, then let the American people rebuild them on their own? Why didn't Obama declare a one-year moratorium on income tax and let the American people stimulate the economy with our money, and actually benefit from it?

Too many why's, I don't know why they are up to but their plan is not going to work. If Obama had done what you suggest and allow average Joe to keep his wages for one year, things would have worked out eventually and we wouldn't be running scared. I wonder what Hillary Clinton would have done if she had been elected.

Originally posted by warpboost
Where do you guys think the bottom is roughly? and when will it get there

How much worse will it get before it really stabilizes or begins to recover?

I hate to break it to you man but the bottom is the end of USD. We are at the point where we are just delaying the inevitable and recovery will not be an option. More like start over.

As soon as AIG finally goes down it will affect close to 500 companies most of which are banks.

P.S. HSBC and AIG are in bed together and pretty much run with the same group of friends.

It's all being setup for G20 in April when the talk of world currency will occur.

This is my opinon not based off fact though

Originally posted by bpg131313

Originally posted by seb118
It is sad that 20 years after the USSR, the USA will undergo a major disaster. THe USSR turned capitalist with pain, and now the USA will turn socialist by necessity with as much pain or even more.

The best solution is refusing to let it go socialist.

It s too late. The socialization happened when the banks of every American citizen created heaps of cash out of thin air ( = debt) to loan it to every borrower. That s capital risk activity spreading to the entire American society.

The bankers took your cash to play casino on the Vegas strip.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
So far the overall DOW has come down ~ 200 points MORE UNDER OBAMA then Bush.

And whereas the DOW went to a record high under Bush, it is now obviously much lower under Obama... and it keeps sinking under him.

How incredibly trivial to keep track of how far the dow falls during which puppet is serving as potus.

Such a thing is truly irrelevant.

Originally posted by seb118

Originally posted by bpg131313

Originally posted by seb118
It is sad that 20 years after the USSR, the USA will undergo a major disaster. THe USSR turned capitalist with pain, and now the USA will turn socialist by necessity with as much pain or even more.

The best solution is refusing to let it go socialist.

It s too late. The socialization happened when the banks of every American citizen created heaps of cash out of thin air ( = debt) to loan it to every borrower. That s capital risk activity spreading to the entire American society.

The bankers took your cash to play casino on the Vegas strip.

To take it a step further the rest of the world is merely pretending with us that the dollar has value. When you tihnk about the statement above about creating cash out of thin air (debt) wouldnt that mean the dollar is becoming a form of debt instead of a form of currency.

We are running around trading debt's when we pay for stuff.

[edit on 2-3-2009 by lightinthedark33]

Originally posted by Anonymous Avatar
How incredibly trivial to keep track of how far the dow falls during which puppet is serving as potus.

Sure. Absolutely. However, the previous poster tried to make it seem like Bushs administration was worse than Obamas when it comes to the DOW. His/her figures were off. It needed to be addressed and corrected.

I do not see much difference between Bush and Obama. At least when I look at the last year of Bush's administration compared to Obama's first 6 weeks and what he claims he wants to do. They are hand in hand. The very few differences are window dressing (abortion stand for example).

Well, DOW is below 7,000....well done!

reply to post by FlyersFan


Exactly. Our presidents are products of our current financial system's policies not the other way around as most would believe.

reply to post by thegreatobserver


Don't worry we will be in the 5000's within a matter of weeks.

reply to post by Anonymous Avatar


I expect it to be mid March...

By the way, a better indicator of the US economy would be the S&P because it trades the 500 largest corporations in this country in contrast to only 30...

Originally posted by lightinthedark33

Originally posted by seb118

Originally posted by bpg131313

Originally posted by seb118
It is sad that 20 years after the USSR, the USA will undergo a major disaster. THe USSR turned capitalist with pain, and now the USA will turn socialist by necessity with as much pain or even more.

The best solution is refusing to let it go socialist.

It s too late. The socialization happened when the banks of every American citizen created heaps of cash out of thin air ( = debt) to loan it to every borrower. That s capital risk activity spreading to the entire American society.

The bankers took your cash to play casino on the Vegas strip.

To take it a step further the rest of the world is merely pretending with us that the dollar has value. When you tihnk about the statement above about creating cash out of thin air (debt) wouldnt that mean the dollar is becoming a form of debt instead of a form of currency.

We are running around trading debt's when we pay for stuff.

[edit on 2-3-2009 by lightinthedark33]

exactly. When a banker receive a deposit of 10 000 USD, he create 1111 USD of FAKE reserve allowing him to create 9 times more : 9999 that spread to the whole system. In the long run, the banking system creates from those 10 000 the incredible amount of 99 000 eur. OUT OF THIN AIR.

And WORSE, some 15-20 years ago the bankers managed to turn around the 9 to 1 limit going to 20 to 1, 30 to 1. The FINAL BLOW to kill any resistance was given when they invented CDS in 1997 allowing loans to be disconnected to any form of cash reserve. They created up to 62 Trillion ( 62 000 000 000 000) of CDS.

That s more than insane, that s mass murder or crime against humanity.

reply to post by thegreatobserver


I know but they always follow the same trends. Either way.

Originally posted by lightinthedark33

Originally posted by warpboost
Where do you guys think the bottom is roughly? and when will it get there

How much worse will it get before it really stabilizes or begins to recover?

I hate to break it to you man but the bottom is the end of USD. We are at the point where we are just delaying the inevitable and recovery will not be an option. More like start over.

It's all being setup for G20 in April when the talk of world currency will occur.

Well, as the dollar is currently 99% debt and 1% cash at best, if things get really bad ( Dow -90%), its wiser to give up the USD, and start a new currency, before the freak wave of hyperinflation hits our shores.
You don t want USA turn Zimbabwe.
The proposal to fix USD back to gold ( or any kind of precious metal) has to my eyes similar meaning.

The American economy, probably all economies, was originally designed to produce Surplus, Not Profits. The Stock Market is a measure of the present value of profits (cash flows) and it doesn't matter if it goes to zero, it only means that companies aren't producing profits, which they shouldn't be able to do anyway.

I want my surplus system back personally, I could care less if passive profits are available for people that were somehow able to convince a world of idiots that polished rocks and fancy paper is a suitable exchange for food, clothes and homes. But each and everyday they attempt to convince the world that profits are somehow important.

I think they should pick up a tool and get to work because this thing of theirs is going down.

As I write, we've just passed the next "psychological number" of 6800. We're now at 6795. Today, it'll continue to go lower. There's literally nothing out there that's positive. We're on our way down folks.

We're not going to pull out of this one because everything the current administration has done has done nothing but made the problem worse. I'm not from either party, so I don't have loyalties. I have always considered myself "without party", because I'd rather do the right thing than what some lobbyist wants because they're going to give me a few grand and a trip to the bahamas, all paid for.

When we have a completely corrupt government, how can choosing one corrupt party over another matter? That's why the change in parties did nothing to stop the decline. I know plenty of loyalists on either side that are quick to point fingers. Those pointed fingers are completely, and utterly, worthless when we're dealing with an entire system that's corrupt. We even have judges being paid off to send kids to detention camps. Bribery is everywhere. Greed is everywhere. Corruption is everywhere.

The only thing that will save this great nation is a hard reboot. Wipe it all clean and start over after we've Amended the Constitution to make all forms of bribery/lobbying a crime punishable by a life in prison, and to make our representatives and senators all "jury picked" - meaning that they are random and will far better represent the People of their constituency rather than the big business interests that lobby.

Our current system can not be repaired as is. The blue screen of death has appeared. No keystrokes will fix the problem aside from one - the power switch. Rebooting the US is the only solution that will work at this point.

Grab a blank book and start journaling all of this. Future generations will hopefully benefit from all you write.

By the way, the number is now 6784. Enjoy the ride folks.