Should we have compassion for psychopaths?

I'd like to intervene here, for i'm Hula's husband.
First of all, we need to understand that we are all programmed in one way or another. Both from visible and invisible realms.
We believe that we have free will but it's an illusion. Free will only happens when we achieve full consciousness. Until we reach that goal, we live programs that are predetermined for us for experiment purposes. We are in a shcool, and we need to understand that we are here to learn. As long as we haven't learned (experienced) and fully understood our experiences, we may repeat the same experiences over and over again.

We are living "programs". When we reach awarenes of this, then slowly, we start bending the rules of the program, and ultimately, with full consciousness, we can delete the program.

Lying and cheating may be necessary in some instances, and we need not to fear those, for they are just part of the illusion. If we feel the need to use these, then we do, and it's all part of the "great ball game of evolution".

On a personal level, i have great difficulty accepting the program i'm living (i.e my job). But i've started to bend the rules of the program, and i'm on the path to great changes. I've said it before, the key is to have freedom of the mind. The manipulation is the cause for all troubles in these expereriences of humans... When the manipulation stops, you are free, and can move on to other spheres of reality.




[edit on 16-3-2009 by teklordz]

should we have compassion for psychopaths?

I remember watching Saddam get hung, I truly felt compassion for him. It was a truly unbelievable primitive reality to me, I did not feel any kind of satisfaction, nor did I feel that any kind of true justice had been served. No great lesson learned either, just another dose of pure loss of faith in humans. It seemed insane.

I felt compassion for Bush when he was boood at obama's thing, but I also feel he should be hung, as all these idiots who are playing real time war games.

Madoc in jail? for 175 yrs, what a joke!
The money must be found and redistributed.
Him, I don`t have any compassion for, I really do not care what happens to him in jail. These are some of my own insane thoughts. I guess my benevolence ends at fraud.

I feel great sorrow that my mom and my bro have caused so much harm, I miss loving them. These are big unanswered voids, like I said they are not really there. My sister agrees.

So my conclusion is that we as sentient beings, if and when faced with the fate of another who has committed atrocities, as evil as can be, are filled with some kind of merci, and the strong realization that it is not our problem, some great force will intervene, cause we are just not violent.

I guess that is the problem, no god is going to save us, we have to learn to desarm these forces, and a bloodbath, well for me I do not want one more casuality involving a decent humanbeing. We must find a way, we must find what their weaknesses are, we must make them cooperate, but how, and at what level can we operate.

We do have to find the solution.







[edit on 16-3-2009 by HulaAnglers]

I sometimes think that, and this is not particularly philosophical, if we were able to develop the collective consciousness into something more present in the mind, we could possibly develop a more self corrective "society".

In other words when the "mind" "heard" the evil thoughts and compulsions of one, I would suspect that the cacophany of objection would have a tendency to negate that evil in that individual.

The Gyges Ring would be negated.

To be honest I'll admit I could never have compassion for a psychopathic killer. How do you show compassion for a cold-blooded killer, without a conscience?

Here in our small town a psychopatic predator walked into a convenience store a killed a young woman. He wanted to rob the place, but the money wasn't enough. She was going to give him the money and turned her back towards the till. He shot her anyways! Even if she had a gun it wouldn't helped, because the Gutless Coward Shot her in the back! He got away with It and is Still Out There!

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
reply to post by unityemissions

 

The only problem with being overtly lenient and tolerant of psychopaths, is that's exactly what fuels them.

They see an opportunity, and they will take it.

I'm not suggesting we be flat out cruel to them, but I definitely think we all need to understand what fuels psychopathic behaviour, and how to respond to it in a way that doesn't add more to their fire.

Absolutely right.

I've known a few in my time....can't be around them, unfortunately can't help them.

But remember.....most psyhcopaths are merely the extreme of many of us "normal" folk. To understand them, we must first understand our own needs, desires and wants and take those things to their highest limits. Not easy for most people to imagine or admit to truthfully, so they (psychopaths) just get labelled as "mad".

Not usually their fault and often caused by trauma from youth. Blame the parents (or lack of) if anyone.

Nymphomaniacs often have issues concerning a missing father, violent psychopaths often have issues of being a victim of abuse etc, etc, etc.

We are ALL mad to some degree...the lucky ones can understand and control those thoughts and feelings, the unlucky get controlled BY them.

"You're not sane unless you're a bit mad"

But beware the "'kin-loons"

[edit on 16/3/2009 by nerbot]

Compassion does not necessitate or necessarily become lenience. You can be compassionate while levying punitive measures.

Don't mix up the two.

[edit on 3-16-2009 by Valhall]

reply to post by HulaAnglers


Great video on Psychopathy.

In reply to the thread:

All men are created equal is a lie, unless you are speaking of laws, politics, etc. All men are created DIFFERENT.

I see this as just another segment of our population. Some are more violent than others, but there are many psychopaths among us, depending on your definition of the word.

...as to my answer to the OP. No, those that have compassion to give, should not show compassion to the Psychopath because he/she would never understand it. The point of compassion is to create an emotional link between yourself and the recipiant. Since, in this case, the recipiant would not understand your compassion except maybe as a sign of weakness, there is no point in GIVING this to them.

My own rantings:

From what I've seen, the % of the population that is psychopathic is about the same as what is in prison. 20%. This is close to the % that is what most on this site would call "ELITE", yes?

Bernie Madoff(and those like him) = Psychopath.

They merely have learned how to keep their psychopathy within the lines of the law.

EDIT: Psychopath = anyone who goes to extremes.

EDIT AGAIN: Who is more likely to survive casastrophe? The 'psycopath' or everyone else?

[edit on 16-3-2009 by dragonking76]

[edit on 16-3-2009 by dragonking76]

Originally posted by dragonking76
reply to post by HulaAnglers

Who is more likely to survive casastrophe? The 'psycopath' or everyone else?

The psycopath has a me firts animal instinct, this type of individual would buldoze his way through any crowd, claw at anything, to save its mediocre skin! I have seen so many in action, I am going blind in disbelief. Interpersonally exploitative and unable to provide a holding and supporting environment, this type would survive the catastrophe at the expense of others, but would not last long.





[edit on 18-3-2009 by HulaAnglers]

The problem with this thread is the examples you give of extreme psychopaths, while many may be your friends and neighbours, and you do not see it.

How many here have nutcase neighbours who do everything they can to ruin lifes.

The amount of non psychpaths in society are small, to what you people say it is. Most people are like what can be described from profiles in this thread. You have to be a vegtable not to be a psychpath in this world.

reply to post by unityemissions

I work in a mental institution and have worked with many people with antisocial personality disorder (the psych term for socio/psycho path). From my decade of experience I don't think that either can be rehabilitated. They mainly look at people as objects and everything and everyone is disposable. They can be very manipulative. I think that if human euthanasia was legal that should be one of the main populations to go. Of the people from that group that I have worked with many have gone on to comit major crimes and or end up back into the system. They just go back through the motions until they can get back out onto the street to use people like pawns to get whatever they want. They all have no conscious the only difference between the ASPD person who will cut your throat for the fun of it and the one who won't is their confidence level. They see no right or wrong only what I wnat and what I don't want.

[edit on 18-3-2009 by paraniod??]

reply to post by HulaAnglers


They are selfish, but they also have this "talent" at using people. If a psychopath were only selfish, without using his/her talent then, he/she wouldn't be as dangerous as they actually are.

They are very good at reading people, and adjusting their tactics based on the situation.

I believe Andy1033 is correct. I think perhaps my estimation of 20% is prudent at best.

Psycopathy, in my opinion, has become a way of life for the average American at least, the average human at worst.

How many people do you know who actually MEAN IT when they say, "How are you doing today?"

I think more than having compassion for them.
We should learn and teach others exactly what they are and how to identify them.
Because most people think a psychopath is a raving lunatic.
Little do they know most of there political leaders are indeed psychopaths.

Originally posted by akalepos
I think that we ought to show compassion toward those and only those people who are deserving of it.

Okay, so who is going to define who deserves compassion? Getting back to Elf's reference to the Vajrayana Buddhist form of thought-feeling-spirituality-culture expressed by the Dalai Lama; from that world view, even an earth-worm is deserving of "compassion" as I understand how they understand that concept, which of course is not exactly the same as most English users understand the translated concept.

Can the family members of a ruthlessly murdered well-loved one have compassion for the murderer, even as they watch the perpetrator put to death according to the laws of their land, and perhaps firm in the belief that God will punish the "psychopathic" soul of the murder? I do not see why they could still not have compassion at they same time they feel the deepest hatred for the that murderer.

If I were the one whose family member was murdered by one who was consumed by evil, no matter how much consciousness the murderer had about that evil, I do not know if I would ever be able to forgive such a murderer.

I am very certain I would not be able to feel empathy for such a one.

But, I think I still might be able to muster some form of compassion, probably not the kind the Dalai Lama has towards the murderers and rapists of his people, the destroyers of his heritage and the usurpers of his people's land.

So, if the Dalai Lama is able to have a form of compassion for a mosquito, equal to that he has for his own mother, and even practices, through meditation, the same compassion to the one's who pulled the triggers who killed his people, clearly we can not possibly comprehend the deep form of spirituality he embodies. In the Tibetan Buddhist way of being, all sentient beings deserve that level of compassion, embraced by all other sentient beings throughout the expanses of all universes in order to bring an end to the cycles of sufferings that exist.

But, for us less spiritual people, I still ask the question, "who is going to define who deserves compassion"?

Seriously, I am not one to mince words for the sake of argument. I am more likely to withdraw from an argument once I realize that the argumentative person is unswayable due to religious beliefs, or some other kind of egocentric belief system.

I have better things to do with my time.

[edit on 18-3-2009 by Evkha]

Joseph Fritzl locked up his own daughter and raped her for 24 yrs, fathered 7 children through this act and is a recognised phychopath, his life sentence will be spent in an mental institution he will be studied not reformed, it seems there really is no hope these "individuals" to ever be humanised

Psychologist Dr David Nias(criminal Psychologist)was interviewed on skynews the link does not work for some reason, but here is the adress if you want to check this out.

news.sky.com... /Video/200903315245217?lpos=World+News_10&lid=VIDEO_1841094_%27Fritzl+Acted+To+Save+His+Own+Skin%27&videoCategory=World+News











[edit on 20-3-2009 by HulaAnglers]

Just an update. I don't think I ever mentioned it in this thread, but I did come into close contact with a psychopath for some time. She was someone that I considered a good friend. It's amazing how deceptive they are.

She stole from me, lied constantly, and was incapable of love. She couldn't stay with just one guy, and ran out of two marriages just before the ceremony. She had something like 5 or 6 abortions, and wasn't around for the first several years of her first kids life. Was junked up.

I had many friends tell me she was messed up in the head. I really wanted to believe that she could get well. Thing is, she didn't want that! Was incapable of accepting that something needed to be fixed. I tried my hardest to get her to see that her actions effected other people. She refused to listed stating, "Allow me to learn on my own". That's all fine and dandy, but when you just don't...you need help!

She ended up bringing me through a psychotic state. She blamed me for everything, and sent me on a mind warp to hell. She left me and never looked back. This is why I have such contempt for psychopaths. They cause too much damage to good people.

I was somewhat relieved to find that my situation was not unfamiliar. I found a site online, which stated that psychosis was common in people who get mistreated by psychopaths. It's sad that I found relief in knowing that others suffered the same, but I was just so out my mind at the time, that I questioned my own sanity after what she accused me of.

Psychopaths think from the perspective of, "I want what I want". No more or less. Entirely egocentric. I came back to this thread, because I just had yet another encounter with a psychopath! This girl openly stated that her dream was to rule the world. She had plans on creating her own guillotine, and said the weak must perish! I naively thought she was simply projecting insecurities, and this was just a sign of extreme anxiety. Nope. She didn't believe in evil, either. Thought that Satan was the real god, because he accepted everyone. How can someone get so twisted?

In the end, this girl did the exact same thing that the first did. I tried to help her, let her know my intent, and the girl freaked and said I was the psycho! She didn't want to be understood, as I thought. She didn't think anything was wrong with her! I've now given up on ever trying to help someone who shows these qualities. They are beyond help. Period!

Originally posted by paraniod??
reply to post by unityemissions

 

I work in a mental institution and have worked with many people with antisocial personality disorder (the psych term for socio/psycho path). From my decade of experience I don't think that either can be rehabilitated. They mainly look at people as objects and everything and everyone is disposable. They can be very manipulative. I think that if human euthanasia was legal that should be one of the main populations to go. Of the people from that group that I have worked with many have gone on to comit major crimes and or end up back into the system. They just go back through the motions until they can get back out onto the street to use people like pawns to get whatever they want. They all have no conscious the only difference between the ASPD person who will cut your throat for the fun of it and the one who won't is their confidence level. They see no right or wrong only what I wnat and what I don't want.

[edit on 18-3-2009 by paraniod??]

Somehow I initially missed your post. Wanted to bump the thread and quote you in entirety, because what you've concluded is exactly the same as I. They look at people as objects to be used for what they want.

Where humanities basic intuitive process is, "Do onto others"...a psychopaths (deviod of insight) instinctual process is, "I want what I want". If you ever encounter someone who is very hastily exclaiming that this isn't what they WANT...that's a red flag, people.

Please don't try to help these poor people, and don't pity them either. They will use both against you.

Originally posted by RedCairo
Compassion, like prayer and fantasy, is in your head. It may have effects in other realms or reality, but the base emotion/behavior/etc. is still only in your head.

It doesn't matter whether or not we 'have' compassion; that's about what's inside us.

I believe the reasonable follow on to this would be, "and if people had compassion this would cause _______ behavior toward, or in response to, psychopaths". As that is where it ceases to be an internal feeling and becomes something that affects someone else.

For all the people who are compassionate, how would that change the *behavior*? Since if it doesn't, what difference does it make?

Just curious.

PJ

Good point, PJ. Kind of like how it's said that joy is internal, and happiness is external. Guess I was considering compassion to be more of an external act, rather than internal feeling. I put conscience as the internal necessity for developing compassionate acts externally..

So, yes, this was the actual question. Should we allow our compassion to manifest as acts of forgiveness, kindness, and acceptance of their behavior.

My response is still a solid, hell no! They should not only be shunned, but I do think that they should be known and tagged as the animals they are. Our whole world-structure is ruled by psychopaths, and our resources are inefficiently managed. A billion people will suffer from hunger this year because of these bastard people who think they have the right to rule over us all.

The people should revolt, and the first thing we do should be to test everyone for *just* the extreme neurological abnormality that is psychopathy. We can stop there. No need to label anyone else as having a sickness. If they can be rehabilitated, we should not feel the need to label them, and should do our best to nurture their conscience and state of well-being.

Haveing been run over
by psychopaths and sociopaths from time to time,
I can safely say this:
They are ruled by fear.
Fear rules them.
This is why they are dangerous.

If you don't put the fear of reprisle right into their cell structue itself
look the hell out, 'cause they'll do you soon as look at you if they get half a chance and think they can get away with it.

Here is Gowan's "A Criminal Mind"
the best description I can relate to you...

www.youtube.com...
"Ask one who's known me
If I'm really so bad?
I am"

[edit on 1-8-2010 by Danbones]

[edit on 1-8-2010 by Danbones]

reply to post by Danbones


The sociopath is ruled by fear, but the true psychopath doesn't really feel fear or love. It's neurobiological. A disconnection between the orbio-frontal cortex and the amygdala.

Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by Danbones

 

The sociopath is ruled by fear, but the true psychopath doesn't really feel fear or love. It's neurobiological. A disconnection between the orbio-frontal cortex and the amygdala.

I'm no expert, so this is entirely IMHO:

That is a pretty accurate description.
no doubt about it, and I am not disagreeing with you
It is scientifically accurate too I'm sure...
I'm no doctor
so this is my observation:

I notice there are varying degrees of affliction
up to what you describe as full blown.
We deal with the occasional or temporarily psychopathic person on a more common basis.
It can be induced by drugs, chemicals, and situations, and even intentionally created.

My practical experience comes from the fact that
we have a locally famous facility in my home town for the criminally insane...
and a regular prison as well.
Both house socios and psychos.
The justice system isn't that accurate.
They are the major employers here.
I have lots of guards in the family and friends.

Dealing with the guards at their worst at times
has been my job in the past,
my direct experience...they can be quite sadistic

Psychos fear pain of one type or another
you may have to figure out which button to punch
and you may have to punch it till it breaks
and it may just be a fear of the loss of power
that comes with being broken
but they fear it.
They love the power "no quilt" has over the weakness that quilt and fear brings.
They can hate.

They fear betraying themselves in that regard
turning against themselves, hating there own Human weakness which costs them power...they can project that on the world around them...

Though if what they fear will take their power away
is removed from direct contact...
right back to full blown trouble.
This is why they are very carefully locked up and/or mostly sedated.


sorry for the edits
Im trying to add something of value to your very erudite thread
sandf
[edit on 1-8-2010 by Danbones]

[edit on 1-8-2010 by Danbones]

[edit on 1-8-2010 by Danbones]