U.S. rattled as Mexico drug war bleeds over border

If the US government is behind the drug trade (I agree, it probably is), what are we supposed to do about it now? Pointing fingers is fun and all, but the fact is that the violence is increasing and potentially threatening American citizens.

I think we're discussing the wrong points here. If drugs were legal, if the government hadn't financed the drug trade, if guns were illegal, if if if... It's a little late for all that. We can't unring a bell, you know?

Reply to Nemox 42 - "Smells like a rat"? Maybe you need to change your shorts. Here's your sources. The problem with most U.S. citizens is they read nothing but trash so they're not aware of whats going in the rest of the World. The violence that's going on in the U.S. barely makes the top 10 in per capita industrial countries. The World Health Organzation (www.who.int/violence_injury_prevention/viol...) keeps track of all violent crime patterns in every country in the world, as does the United Nations Interregional Crime and Justice Research Institute (www.unicri.it/wwd/analysis/icvs/index.php). Historically, Scotland /Wales / England have posted the most number of violent crimes per their population, in the industrial world for well over 10 years (Gun bans in full effect there). As a matter of fact, nearly every country that is a head of the U.S. in violent crimes, has severe to total bans on firearms and rifles. Also if you don't want to read U.N. or WHO reports, then goggle "The International Victims Survey", which is conducted by the Leiden University in Holland. I don't report anything but factually information. After I read a number of other post, you responded two, I'm getting abit of a Narsasistic / Antisocial read from you. Maybe you should take a vacation and relax, maybe some place nice, like Northern Mexico. Enjoy your reading.

Originally posted by mike dangerously
The second the US military show up on the border you will have the Mexican government screaming bloody murder! although it very well maybe all part of the plan for a NAU or perhaps the invasion of Mexico itself.Have all of you ever notice that most of the time the local cops and DEA only go after the peons the nickel and dime drug dealers and every once in awhile they will actually lock up a kingpin but that rarely happens simply because it's easier for law enforcement to get the low level guys then it is to go after the kingpins,their money men and government sponsors.


Some books on the subject:

1.The Underground Empire by Jim Mills


2. Dark Alliance by Gary Webb

Yes, the CIA is well known for this, but the DEA is extremely active in the importation business. They do go after low level dealers, but they focus on physicians (many of whom are completely innocent and compassionate people treating those with intractable pain). They have framed many physicians for doing what was right (this is why the Hospice movement was so successful--there are many people who have killed themselves because they could only obtain enough medication to be pain-free for several hours each day). Please visit Cele Castillo's site for a wealth of info on the CIA and DEA (he is ex-DEA) at

www.powderburns.org...

. There is a great deal of information that many others, including Gary Webb, have collected and documented.

It was and is not so much the drug industry that they are after...cia....they simply understood the billions and billions and billions in criminal liquid assets would and is upsetting the balance of the free world.

They needed to start to control the trade and the money to protect the interests of the USA.....and they more or less with very very very few people began to take down some of the biggest dealers but more dealers poped up...these guys control countries...and so the best they could do was manage the problem. They could not beat it.

reply to post by caballero



Our fault? Nonsense, the Mexican government has been corrupt since its inception.

As a Phoenix resident, I can tell you that things are getting worse. The Mexicans aren't going home as the liberal media would have you believe, when they lose their jobs they are turning to crime, that's why the kidnapping rate has jumped so significantly.

This being Arizona, and therefore not packed with pacifist liberals (unlike Kali) something is likely to bust loose, remember this is the home of the Minutemen.

America is all about dealing with issues on a personal level, and the Mexican hordes have pushed us just about as far as we can tolerate. What happens next is up to them, but the feeling around here is that we need to step in and do the job that the federal government is failing to do, i.e. protect our borders and keep the citizenry safe in their homes.

But what are they more interested in? oh yeah, they want to ban our semi-automatic rifles because they are "fuelling the drug war". Such outrageous BS.

Hey, I thought we were not going to talk about illegal drugs. The drug war in America is not Mexican. We have not learned our lesson from prohibition. Since the booze came from Canada, we could call it the Canadian drug war. Just because Mexicans are involved does not make it "bleed" from Mexico.

reply to post by xman_in_blackx


This thread is turning into what Springer and other Administrators warned all ATS members from talking about.

The problem is the weapons that are in the hands of these cartels, not what they are selling.

And you are all right, this stuff will not stop until they are dead. I am in Phoenix and this stuff is getting crazy. I am thinking about moving for the sake of my kids.

Originally posted by arizonascott
The problem is the weapons that are in the hands of these cartels, not what they are selling.

The weapons are not the cause of the issue. That is like saying a pencil is causing spelling errors.

I was suggesting that since most of these individuals are doing these things for money, which gives them control, you should eliminate their source of money. If they are no longer being paid to do these things, then perhaps it may stop.

Wars cost money no matter the agenda.

Be alert and be safe out there, my friend. Getting a CCW may help your peace of mind. With it comes good training and responsibility.

[edit on 2-3-2009 by xman_in_blackx]

Originally posted by LostNemesis
I DARE the Mexicans to try to "take back" Texas. As far as I am concerned, Texans are ready for it and will take care of the problem that our government has refused to.

My deepest respect goes to Texans for always being willing to speak out for ALL of us, and our rights. If I can... I will get to the border and help, when needed.

This is a fight for all of us, that our government has been watching and refusing to do anything about. I have no doubt, Mexico will not be getting Texas back.

EDIT: Pheonix? eh... No disrespect... I have a love for Texas and her people.

LostNemesis;

Thank you for recognizing the situation in Texas. We have been preparing for the spread of a real border war for more years than anyone could imagine. The realities of the Mexican border violence have been known to us in vivid detail for a long time. There have been many more instances of kidnappings, shootings, lootings, etc. in South Texas towns than have ever been reported in the faux news. Several small South Texas towns are almost run by Mexican bandits, to the point of flying the Mexican flag over top the American flag.

We in Texas have been watching and preparing. Many Texans have been stocking up on arms and ammunition for years. Not for a 'just in case' scenario; but for the inevitable. We know its coming, and we are ready.



[edit on 1-3-2009 by LostNemesis]

Originally posted by arizonascott
This thread is turning into what Springer and other Administrators warned all ATS members from talking about.

I think Springer was more interested in prohibiting arguments about the legalization of drugs, I don't see any of that discussion here.

This discussion is more focused on the social consequences of the cross border drug war and its effects on cities like Phoenix.

But hey, I could be wrong, maybe ANY tangential discussion involving drugs is also verboten.

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
reply to post by Nemox42

 

where exactly is it that you can steal an m16,or a 40 mm grenade?
do you really think that you can buy them at a gun show? they are using fully automatic weapons...american made fully automatic weapons.
it is quite obvious that the federal gov is selling these weapons to either the cartels,or the mexican government.
why do the uninformed think there are huge stashes of automatic weapons that people are selling across the border?
the gov is the only ones with that amount of fully auto guns!
please..reason this out.
there is a reason for the 2nd amendment.
if you gave up all the guns,how would we defend ourselves from these INVADERS?????????

YOU WANT TO MAKE DRUGS LEGAL AND MAKE GUNS ILLEGAL?
well i dont want to alarm you ,but,everyone i know who wants drugs can get them and they are illegal.
on the other hand,guns are legal,and if you want to acquire them you have to have a backround check ,etc.
so logic says that if they cant keep the drugs off the street,why would they do better with guns?
and personally...i dont want to take a knife to a gunfight.

[edit on 2-3-2009 by Spectre0o0]

Who the hell is going to invade us? Mexico? Canada? We are surrounded by Two massive oceans. A land invasion from a foreign country is close to Zero. We basically rule the seas on both sides. Any military tactician will tell you we are pretty much damn safe from a land invasion from ANY foreign country. The only threat you have to worry about kiddie, is nuclear. And frankly, our little fire arms and the second amendment is not going to do squat to a nuclear attack. You might as well kiss you and family good bye, if a real war was to start with a another world power.

Not sure if you guys remember history class but, THE REASON THE SECOND AMENDMENT WAS THOUGHT UP WAS BECAUSE IT WAS USED FOR THE
REVOLUTIONARY WAR. IT WAS MEANT FOR A CHECK AND BALANCE BETWEEN GOVERNMENT AND CIVILIAN. THAT WAS HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO, IF YOUR SCARED UNCLE SAM IS GOING TO GET TOO POWERFUL AND MUCK STUFF UP, A LITTLE TOO LATE. THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS AN OUTDATED LAW. I SH*T YOU GUYS NOT, GO PICK UP A BOOK AND READ UP ABOUT YOUR SECOND AMENDMENT AND WHY ITS THERE.

[edit on 2-3-2009 by Nemox42]

reply to post by GLDNGUN


You got me twisted man. I Was talking about violent crime. I own myself a set of guns. I'm ALL FOR OWNING firearms. But frankly I'm just tired of idiots crying about violent crimes when frankly we as americans are to blame for our own faults. If you want Violent gun crimes to stop, TAKE AWAY ALL THE GUNS FROM CIVILIANS. TAKE THE TOOL AWAY FROM THE USER, IN A COUNTRY LIKE OURS WHERE THERE ARE GUN SHOPS IN EVERY STREET CORNER. WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?

Its so freaking funny how in a country like ours, where Americans think hey, its so sad, that these 13 year old kids are going to school and shooting up the place. WHERE THE HELL DO YOU THINK THEY GOT THE GUNS FROM???? HOW HARD IS FOR LITTLE JOEY TO GO INTO DADDY'S MASSIVE GUN COLLECTION AND TAKE WHAT HE NEEDS TO GO SHOOT UP THE PLACE? I LOOK AT IT THIS WAY, DON'T CRY ABOUT IT WHEN OBVIOUSLY WE OURSELVES ARE THE PROBLEMS. IN THIS WORLD, ESPECIALLY AMERICANS, WE ALL SEEM TO WANT OUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO. WE WANT TO OWN GUNS, BUT VIOLENT GUN CRIMES TO STOP? WHO IS CONTRADICTING OURSELVES NOW??

Originally posted by Nemox42 THE REASON THE SECOND AMENDMENT WAS THOUGHT UP WAS BECAUSE IT WAS USED FOR THE CIVIL WAR. IT WAS MEANT FOR A CHECK AND BALANCE BETWEEN GOVERNMENT AND CIVILIAN. THAT WAS HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO, IF YOUR SCARED UNCLE SAM IS GOING TO GET TOO POWERFUL AND MUCK STUFF UP, A LITTLE TOO LATE. THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS AN OUTDATED LAW. I SH*T YOU GUYS NOT, GO PICK UP A BOOK AND READ UP ABOUT YOUR SECOND AMENDMENT AND WHY ITS THERE.

Firstly, I believe there is a rule about not using all upper-case in your posts, it's the Interweb equivalent of yelling donchaknow.

Secondly the Second Amendment wasn't "thought up" because of the Civil War, it was a consequence of the Revolutionary War, and it was needed quite soon after its inception when the Brits re-invaded.

As for going and picking up a book, err kettle/pot

[edit on 2-3-2009 by Retseh]

Originally posted by Retseh

Originally posted by Nemox42 THE REASON THE SECOND AMENDMENT WAS THOUGHT UP WAS BECAUSE IT WAS USED FOR THE CIVIL WAR. IT WAS MEANT FOR A CHECK AND BALANCE BETWEEN GOVERNMENT AND CIVILIAN. THAT WAS HUNDREDS OF YEARS AGO, IF YOUR SCARED UNCLE SAM IS GOING TO GET TOO POWERFUL AND MUCK STUFF UP, A LITTLE TOO LATE. THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS AN OUTDATED LAW. I SH*T YOU GUYS NOT, GO PICK UP A BOOK AND READ UP ABOUT YOUR SECOND AMENDMENT AND WHY ITS THERE.

Firstly, I believe there is a rule about not using all upper-case in your posts, it's the Interweb equivalent of yelling donchaknow.

Secondly the Second Amendment wasn't "thought up" because of the Civil War, it was a consequence of the Revolutionary War, and it was needed quite soon after its inception when the Brits re-invaded.

As for going and picking up a book, err kettle/pot

[edit on 2-3-2009 by Retseh]

yea sorry about that buddy, I just caught that mistake right now. Your right it was for the revolutionary war.

Originally posted by Nemox42
reply to post by GLDNGUN

 

You got me twisted man. I Was talking about violent crime. I own myself a set of guns. I'm ALL FOR OWNING firearms. But frankly I'm just tired of idiots crying about violent crimes when frankly we as americans are to blame for our own faults. If you want Violent gun crimes to stop, TAKE AWAY ALL THE GUNS FROM CIVILIANS. TAKE THE TOOL AWAY FROM THE USER, IN A COUNTRY LIKE OURS WHERE THERE ARE GUN SHOPS IN EVERY STREET CORNER. WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?

Do you REALLY and TRULY believe that the average gangbanger went down to the corner gun shop, waited out the waiting period, passed the background check, and paid full retail price for his gun of choice? Seriously?

reply to post by Autonomous


No, But how hard is it for average Joe gang banger to rob your house when your not home and take all the guns you got, then use it for all the criminal deeds they want? How do you think most of these illegal guns get on the street? Do you know how many guns go missing in a year? Do you know how many gun shops secretly sell guns off the books? PLENTY? EXAMPLE?

www.tdn.com...

reply to post by axistr


www.nationmaster.com...

Obviously, you think too highly of yourself. I would walk in a bad neighborhood of UK or Aussie any day of the week, compare to walking into some neighborhoods of south central L.A, The day you got bloods and crips sitting on roof tops with uzis and tech-9s, where EVEN COPS WON'T DARE TO PATROL THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, UNLESS THEY ARE IN FULL FORCE. THEN YOU CAN TELL ME YOUR COUNTRY IS WORST OFF THEN MINE.

ok so some of you dont want civies or anyone owning a firearm because you think that would stop the crime. thats really funny. these cartel and para military soldiers have FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPONS. now for us regular civies to have fully auto you have to carry a class 3 stamp on your license, which does not come easily. they dont give that out for fun. also those kinds of people that retain one are not the kinds to illegally sell their weapons on the black market, they are the ones who help out LE, and protect their families and property. they do so within the law. my point is good citizens who obey the law and enjoy shooting are not the ones supplying the auto's to the cartels. so who is? you should already know. making firearms illegal is the most brainless idea i have ever heard, along with the mentality of "i will never own a firearm, they are scary and mean, bad people have them and will hurt you, peace and love for all man". you have a victim mentality. so stay at home and hide in your basement and i pray a home invader never comes calling at your house because you a baby, and to scared to protect your family from the worst kind of harm. you do realize they kidnap kids and use them as sex slaves dont you.

what is wrong with some of you? guns have been around for hundreds of years and they arent going anywhere. so just get used to it already. a firearm is just a firearm. it doesnt act on its own. they are needed for hunting as well. you want to take them away from law abiding citizens so we can be as helpless as you when a gang comes to rape our wives and take our daughters. im not fear mongering, i know people its happened to. trust me its very real and is not happening in a town near you, its happening everywhere ever couple of minutes, and dont think it will never happen to you.

i also live in Texas, and have been here for the last year and a half. from what i can tell in Virginia i used to be one of the most armed people i knew, but out here im your average gun owner. when i go to the range and CQB shooting facilities, people arent playing around. then i start getting to know some of the shooters and it turns out they are in local private militias with over a thousand members. they are trained, armed beyond belief and ready for the day, because we all know its coming. if anyone doubts Texas and if their little small arms can do anything, i can tell you i have no fear from any gang or cartel hit squad nor do anyone i shoot with, and like i said im small potatoes to some of the texans ive seen. not with 100 men could you step a thousand yards within my property, and with a little notice i could have enough people to hold off a thousand. nothing bothers me. if you are not a gun owner and you are to scared to protect your family when SHTF come drop them off over my house and i will protect everyone i can.

oh yea lets stop the drug demand over here huh? okay give me your great ideas on how to stop people from wanting cocain and marijuana. that will never stop. you cant make people stop doing something by making it illegal and sending them to jail obviously, so what are you going to do? nothing, because they will always want and try to obtain it. so what do we do? stop letting mexican truckers come through the borders unchecked, and find and eliminate these underground trails. gaurd the borders properly. stop the use of military planes transporting it,LOL. that one wont be easy. because we all know military personal who inquire about the cargo get shot by the criminals in action aka CIA.

there is no stopping it. the drug war is a joke. the border is a joke. its all going to happen just the way its planned. i mean since the gov is ignoring the situation that must mean they want it to conitnue. all i can say is stop being scared and protect your family. trust me a group of heavily armed Texans will show soon enough what civies are capable of.