The Dulce Base: Fact or Fiction? Public Forum on March 29

Originally posted by akalepos
Norio!

The price of admission being 5.00 shows clearly that you are not a money dog. Boy do I appreciate that!

I live in the Joshua Tree, CA area and slipped over to the 2012 conference held by G. Noory and the "science" guy whose name always slips away from me.

They wanted 1500 dollars for attendance for the 3 day thing.

That just sort of puts a knot in the gut, if you know what I am saying here. Why should only people with money to burn like that have exclusive access to information?

I don't know if I can make it. I will try. Rest assured, that if I do not, will wish I had. (that's me...)
Take care!

Thank you so much, Akalepos!!

I will definitely post the results after the conference, Akalepos.
In the meantime here is another write-up about the conference.
This was is quite interesting:

THE DULCE BASE: FACT OR FICTION?

Conference and Public Forum to be held in Dulce, New Mexico on March 29, 2009

Originally submitted by Access Media for Norio Hayakawa, expanded version:

DULCE, NEW MEXICO – Eye witnesses, law enforcement officers and paranormal investigators will all meet at a conference in Dulce, New Mexico on March 29 to discuss long-standing rumors of a secret, underground U.S. government biological laboratory and base in the area. Norio Hayakawa, a retired funeral director and UFO researcher, is hosting the conference at the Best Western Jicarilla Inn in Dulce. His intent is to prove that these rumors may have prosaic explanations.

However, some of these prosaic explanations may be disturbing, if revealed to the public.

According to Hayakawa, stories began to circulate in the mid-1970s when area residents witnessed "strange lights in the sky" and when ranchers reported mysterious cattle mutilations and frequent sightings of military helicopters. The rumors intensified in 1980 when Paul Bennewitz, who was then the president of Thunder Scientific Labs adjacent to Kirtland Air Force Base, reported his experiences with what he described as "alien entities". Bennewitz claimed that these entities were controlling humans through electromagnetic devices, that their triangular craft crashed near Dulce, that some strange aerial objects were regularly flying near Kirtland, the nearby Manzano Nuclear Weapons Storage Facility and Coyote Canyon Test Area, and that they were transmitting signals to him from a base under Archuleta Mesa, adjacent to Dulce.

One of the speakers at the conference will be Greg Bishop, who thoroughly investigated the Bennewitz claims in his book Project Beta. There will also be a few other well-known speakers. “However,” Hayakawa said, “the principal focus of the conference will be with local residents, ranchers and law enforcement officers who will testify about their personal experiences.”

Interest in the conference and the decades-long rumor of a Dulce base are high. “The UFO Hunters,” a popular History Channel television show, recently visited Dulce to interview residents and research facts about the purported Dulce base. “Because of the History Channel investigation, the townsfolk of Dulce are very much aware of the conference,” said Hayakawa. “For the first time, some of the residents may come forward at the conference to speak without fear of ridicule.”

Skeptical of the claims and rumors himself, Hayakawa is convinced there could be prosaic explanations to both the UFO sightings and cattle mutilations, and looks forward to the conference providing a resolution of the matter. "There has not been any physical evidence whatsoever that there is such a base in or near Dulce," Hayakawa asserted. "However,” he admitted, “I have heard about some disturbing allegations concerning the Dulce area relevant to serious environmental as well as health issues."

"One such wild allegation", said Hayakawa, "is the allegation that the government, beginning in the mid 1970s, may have conducted clandestine operations in the area involving experiments with bovine diseases, anthrax and other substances as part of biological warfare research." Hayakawa also says he has heard from other sources that there may also have been some illegal dumping or storage of toxic chemicals and other bio-hazzardous materials in the nearby areas.

"Another allegation that I have heard", continued Hayakawa, is "the allegation that the there has been a cover-up of occasional radiation leaks in the region resulting from a 1967 underground nuclear detonation which took place about 22 miles southwest of Dulce." The name of that government experiment was called Project Gasbuggy, part of the government's attempt to utilize nuclear energy for peaceful purposes. It was part of the Plowshare Program. Hayakawa said that it was conducted "ostensibly to ease the flow of natural gas in the region, but the government knew well in advance that it would produce high amount of radiation".

"These may have some relevance to an allegation that there has been relatively high rate of cancer in this region as well as some reports of problems with fertility among some women in the area as well", said Hayakawa.

Hayakawa also stated that "if some of these allegations are true", then he supports a theory "that the government may have purposefully created some 'convenient' cover stories to conceal those activities and may even have staged a series of fake 'UFO-type' incidents in the area, utilizing high tech equipment such as holographic projection devices." This type of operations is part of the Psychological Operations (PSYOPS) programs utilized by the military. "The association of this area with 'UFOs' certainly creates a laughter curtain and ridicule and would detract attention away from serious scrutiny of the area."

According to Greg Bishop, Paul Bennewitz may have been a target of a concerted effort by the government through the AFOSI at Kirtland Air Force Base and Sandia Labs to brainwash him into believing that there is an alien base under the Archuleta Mesa. Greg Bishop suggests that part of what Bennewitz may have witnessed near the Manzano Storage Area and Coyote Canyon Test Areas in 1979 could have been the government's test flights of prototypes of remotely-controlled platforms (unmanned aerial vehicles). "These devices may have been utilized in timely fashion over Dulce during the height of government's clandestine operations near Dulce", said Hayakawa.

Whatever the case may be, Hayakawa said that this fascinating one-day conference, open to the public, will start at 10:00 am and will conclude at 5 p.m. Admission is $5 at the door. The conference will include an open public forum during which the public will be given an opportunity to report their experiences and express their opinions.

Additional information can be found at www.ufodigest.com...

and www.myspace.com...

reply to post by Norio Hayakawa


I did not know those things about that area. I feel for those people if in fact toxic waste including irradiated soil, therefore dust as well, is affecting their lives like that.

I think that though, the original incident with the Roswell and Archuletta craft crashes, to my understanding at least, predates these other events.

And it is my understanding the the bulldozer "fell into the cavern" about 47, sometime later after those two simultaneous crashes.

In all honesty, I have absolutely no valid verification. But it does make for a good story.

So I would assume that there are more reports of aerial phenomena from the 70's on that are not well known? Or are gov fabrications to keep the curious away?

I would feel comfortable assuming that the gov simply did not know, even though they may have suspected, that radiation would effect the extended local area. It is reasonable to assume that whatever calculations they used at that time were proper, and guided them in the decision making process.

But I would add that if this is the case, then they ought to fess up and do what they can to help minimize and eliminate if possible the "evils of past deeds". I don't think its too much to ask.

Just think of the mess. Nuclear testing that didn't quite pan out just 22 miles away. Possible toxic waste dumping on Tribal Lands even closer?
Sounds like a need for water, soil and wind analysis on days when the prevailing winds come from those areas.

I am willing to put my money on the notion that all ufo stuff aside, that the thinking is that if they admit that and even attempt to make corrective action to clean it up and lessen its impact or eliminate it where they can, that the fear is that an entire community will have reason to file suit and make matters even more expensive. Also, for them to cave in at a remote location like that, then the door will be wide open in several other arenas.

Does that sound reasonable to assume?

If so, this is a greater dilemma for Dulce than any secret underground labs.



[edit on 18-3-2009 by akalepos]

[edit on 18-3-2009 by akalepos]

Originally posted by akalepos
reply to post by Norio Hayakawa

 

Just think of the mess. Nuclear testing that didn't quite pan out just 22 miles away. Possible toxic waste dumping on Tribal Lands even closer?
Sounds like a need for water, soil and wind analysis on days when the prevailing winds come from those areas.

I am willing to put my money on the notion that all ufo stuff aside, that the thinking is that if they admit that and even attempt to make corrective action to clean it up and lessen its impact or eliminate it where they can, that the fear is that an entire community will have reason to file suit and make matters even more expensive. Also, for them to cave in at a remote location like that, then the door will be wide open in several other arenas.

Does that sound reasonable to assume?

If so, this is a greater dilemma for Dulce than any secret underground labs.



[edit on 18-3-2009 by akalepos]

[edit on 18-3-2009 by akalepos]

Yes, Akalepos, I would not be surprised if this were the case, i.e., this may be the dilemma for Dulce than any secret underground labs.
This was exactly what I meant when I stated that some prosaic explanations behind the Dulce rumors may even prove to be disturbing to the public.
Dulce just a few weeks ago signed a multi-million dollar deal with another natural gas company to begin to explore and to exploit several new natural gas flow. It would be interesting what this could result in.
Of course, there will be lot of money coming in, no doubt.
Probably more new constuctions of buildings, etc.
Anyway, the book about MAJI definitely seems to be interesting, from what the author stated.
Thanks for the info, Akalepos.

Originally posted by akalepos
reply to post by Norio Hayakawa

 

Just think of the mess. Nuclear testing that didn't quite pan out just 22 miles away. Possible toxic waste dumping on Tribal Lands even closer?
Sounds like a need for water, soil and wind analysis on days when the prevailing winds come from those areas.

I am willing to put my money on the notion that all ufo stuff aside, that the thinking is that if they admit that and even attempt to make corrective action to clean it up and lessen its impact or eliminate it where they can, that the fear is that an entire community will have reason to file suit and make matters even more expensive. Also, for them to cave in at a remote location like that, then the door will be wide open in several other arenas.

Does that sound reasonable to assume?

If so, this is a greater dilemma for Dulce than any secret underground labs.



[edit on 18-3-2009 by akalepos]

[edit on 18-3-2009 by akalepos]

Yes, Akalepos, I would not be surprised if this were the case, i.e., this may be the dilemma for Dulce than any secret underground labs.
This was exactly what I meant when I stated that some prosaic explanations behind the Dulce rumors may even prove to be disturbing to the public.
Dulce just a few weeks ago signed a multi-million dollar deal with another natural gas company to begin to explore and to exploit several new natural gas flow. It would be interesting what this could result in.
Of course, there will be lot of money coming in, no doubt.
Probably more new constuctions of buildings, etc.
Anyway, the book about MAJI definitely seems to be interesting, from what the author stated.
Thanks for the info, Akalepos.

Somehow, for me anyway, I can't see that any money would make me feel much better in a proper inner way, if I had been born with only 2 fingers on one hand or had a big inoperable lump that grew on the side of my head.

If I had these occurrences and knew that my leaders did it to me, and for selfish reasons have decided to ignore my existence, I would have a very depressed and sometimes angry existence indeed!


Philosophically, one ought always right the wrongs that one is responsible for.
Sometimes a direct amends, as in an apology and some cash, just won't cut it. Proper amends for such policies is to refrain from ever doing that again. This, I think, should be a paramount demand that must be met.
What a dilemma huh?

[edit on 20-3-2009 by akalepos]

There has to be more to dulce than just illegal nuclear dumpings. Many people have spoken of this alleged base that is approximately 2 miles northwest of the town. Why would people concoct such fanciful stories out of thin air

The bulk of information came from Thomas Castello, a security officer with an ultra-7 top secret clearance. His interview was out-of-this-world with details that only an insider could reveal. He said there was at least seven levels to this "biological transfer" facility and he had access to all these levels. The first level was for security personal. I do not remember what the other levels where but most of the experimentation took place at levels six and seven.

Then we have a government geologist going by the name of Phil Schneider who said he was involved with the creation of many underground bases. He was shot with an exotic weapon and got a nasty dose of cobalt radiation. He shared much knowledge in a few lectures before getting killed in his own home;a so-called "suicide" with piano wire.

Others may know as well but do not speak the truth out of sheer fear. If an extra-terrestial base exists at dulce it is probably not the only one. Area 51 and LANL maybe central hubs in this vast southwest, underground empire. As Norio and John Lear have repeatedly said the entire region is prime land for the military-industrial complex due primarily to the remoteness of the area. Basically all military bases and national laboratories can be considered suspect and all may be linked by high speed mag-lev trains.

I am not going to give a lecture on this topic; either you know what I am talking about or you need to do some research. Of course there might be a prosaic explanation to all this but all the circumstantial evidence to date points to ufo/alien activity!

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Earthcitizen!
the book that I have written which is shown as my avatar, and has details in my profile, deals much with the alleged base at Dulce. The story I put together has a lot to do with events and stories that I have known about for years.
But like anyone else, I have no way to verify ANYTHING along our curiosity lines here.


So I created a story encompassing all the information as I have it, to see what shakes out of the tree. The result is the one possible conclusion of many about what all the info means. there are many possibilities, but I have focussed on one.

So far as underground bases are concerned, I still maintain an old magazine that presents the notion that there are also underground connections between them all, and I elaborate, and try to push the logic further about that in the book.

As the story unfolds, it is not clear that someone has taken all the stories and given them further thought, it just seems like a story. And you know what? It DID come out of my imagination, but many of the older stories and rumors that I have noticed disappearing from the net and the general discussion are recapitulated in Maji.

I kept asking myself:

If this were true, then how could it be..."X".

Please forgive the shameless self promotion, but I am confident that all who read will enjoy it.

Originally posted by akalepos
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

But like anyone else, I have no way to verify ANYTHING along our curiosity lines here.

So I created a story encompassing all the information as I have it, to see what shakes out of the tree. The result is the one possible conclusion of many about what all the info means. there are many possibilities, but I have focussed on one.

So far as underground bases are concerned, I still maintain an old magazine that presents the notion that there are also underground connections between them all, and I elaborate, and try to push the logic further about that in the book.

As the story unfolds, it is not clear that someone has taken all the stories and given them further thought, it just seems like a story. And you know what? It DID come out of my imagination, but many of the older stories and rumors that I have noticed disappearing from the net and the general discussion are recapitulated in Maji.

I kept asking myself:

If this were true, then how could it be..."X".

Please forgive the shameless self promotion, but I am confident that all who read will enjoy it.

Akalepos, thank you so much for sharing this.
The title of your book is very meaningful.
Although I have not read the book yet, I will definitely mention your book on March 29 in Dulce.
As I have mentioned else on this forum, my final conclusion is that we still do not know for sure what reality is.
Reality is not limited to only with what we can see with our eyes.
Perhaps physical realities and non-physical realities (alternate realities that surpass our understanding) meet somewhere inbetween.

Originally posted by Norio Hayakawa


Akalepos, thank you so much for sharing this.
The title of your book is very meaningful.
Although I have not read the book yet, I will definitely mention your book on March 29 in Dulce.
As I have mentioned else on this forum, my final conclusion is that we still do not know for sure what reality is.
Reality is not limited to only with what we can see with our eyes.
Perhaps physical realities and non-physical realities (alternate realities that surpass our understanding) meet somewhere inbetween.

Norio,
Thank you in advance for the plug.

What I know for certain is that I know nothing that fits the word 'certain' perfectly.
I have had many experiences that also leads me to believe that we do not know much about the nature of reality. If and when we ever get a chance to sit down and bs a little, I'll let you know what sort of things have always been part of my life.

By the way, I did think about going to Dulce totry to debut my bokk. BUT... more than the simple idea of exploitation (you should laugh at this one) enterred my mind.

First, your conference is not about that in particular, and so my bedraggled self sitting in some hallway would just be a detractor.

Second, that book is for sale, but I have yet to recieve the first print for review. So I still need to look for errors before I tellthem "go". I didn't even know this. I know next to nothing about the process. SO any orders won't even be shipped until after that.

Third, I do not butt my way into things. I am neither a physical nor intellectual bully. I have been bullied by people like Noorey who is an amateur at it as well as many others as ALL humans have experienced. So I just sort of don't live my life that way.

As far as cash for this book: If I can pay off my student loans and make Barb somewhat happy, that will be a good thing. The omnipresent point is the messages in the book itself, which is actually designed to add to the dialog and establish a reference point to the older stories that are disappearing. One such story is the meeting at White Sands the night before the roswell/archuletta crashes.

I have seen your photograph on my space. So I know that you are old enough to know what I am talking about.

Anyway, the story itself is the most important part. It pestered me until I wrote it out on "paper". It basically wrote itself, as you can probably attest to similar circumstances.

hehehe.. Isn't life a kick in the butt sometimes!

Take Care!
Scott

Who knows really. New Mexico is definitely a hotspot anyway.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


No doubt Donnie, someone does know.

Originally posted by Norio Hayakawa
from CIN Newswire Services/Access Media - PRESS RELEASE
dated: March 1, 2009

THE DULCE BASE: FACT OR FICTION? Conference and Public Forum to be held in Dulce, New Mexico on March 29, 2009

Hayakawa and a few UFO enthusiasts from New Mexico, California and Arizona, would like to clear these unfounded rumors. They are planning to have a one-day public conference in the town of Dulce next March.
It will be appropriately titled: "The Dulce Base: Fact or Fiction?".

Hello Norio, interesting article about a very interesting but also disturbing subject indeed.
I really hope that it will be a great conference and that it eventually will shine some more light on those in my opinion very founded rumors.
My take on "The Dulce Base: Fact or Fiction?", Fact.

Originally posted by Norio Hayakawa
I will definitely post the outcome of the March 29 Dulce conference here.

I really looking forward to your post of that outcome.

In case you didn’t read this interview of John Lear on project Camelot, I am so bold to give you the link.
Look what John said about Dulce and the interesting people he named there.
Even one of them is a by me very respected ATS member.

www.projectcamelot.net...



[edit on 21/3/09 by spacevisitor]

Norio!

You should be leaving soon for Dulce, if you aren't on the road already!

Have a safe, pleasant and productive trip!

Scott

Originally posted by spacevisitor
I really hope that it will be a great conference and that it eventually will shine some more light on those in my opinion very founded rumors.
My take on "The Dulce Base: Fact or Fiction?", Fact.

.........
I really looking forward to your post of that outcome.

In case you didn’t read this interview of John Lear on project Camelot, I am so bold to give you the link.
Look what John said about Dulce and the interesting people he named there.
Even one of them is a by me very respected ATS member.

www.projectcamelot.net...

[edit on 21/3/09 by spacevisitor]

Thank you very much, Spacevisitor!
Yes, I will definitely post the outcome of this conference.
In the meantime, tonight (Wednesday, March 25) the UFO HUNTERS program on the History Channel will premier its new episode: "Underground Alien Bases". The entire one-hour show is about the Dulce controvery.
The program will probably be a sensationalistic type of program, just like all UFO programs on TV. That's the nature of TV business, anyway.

Originally posted by akalepos
Norio!
You should be leaving soon for Dulce, if you aren't on the road already!

Have a safe, pleasant and productive trip!

Scott

Thanks so much, Scott. As I mentioned, I will try to mention the book MAJI at the conference.
Anyway, Scott, in the meantime, as you may already know, the UFO Hunters program of the History Channel will premier its new episode tonight (Wednesday, March 25). The new episode tonight is titled: "Underground Alien Bases" and will feature the Dulce base controversy.
I am sure, however, that the program will be sensationalistic. That's the nature of almost all UFO type programs on TV, unfortunately.

Anyway, thanks.
I will definitely post the results of the Dulce base conference here.

reply to post by Norio Hayakawa


I don't let those things bother me.

Once you sort of realize that almost nothing has truth at its base, everything else begins to look like...

I don't know, some sort of emotional gobbldy goop.

Still, if one of my friends that I'll see tonight has cable, I'll either get a peek tonight or try to get some one to make me a copy of the show.

You know what's really interesting, is that sometimes by default, people hit on truths about such things and never realize it. It would just be interesting to see if anything portrayed would coincide with anything I believe to be true.

As you didn't quite say, it might be an interesting cartoon!

Take care.
Scott

Originally posted by Norio Hayakawa
Anyway, Scott, in the meantime, as you may already know, the UFO Hunters program of the History Channel will premier its new episode tonight (Wednesday, March 25). The new episode tonight is titled: "Underground Alien Bases" and will feature the Dulce base controversy.

Will it be featured on Discovery Europe as well or is it only for a north american audience?

Originally posted by Norio Hayakawa
I am sure, however, that the program will be sensationalistic. That's the nature of almost all UFO type programs on TV, unfortunately.

Such programs are sensational by default.

Do you prefer watching boring nasa documentaries?

Originally posted by Norio Hayakawa
Anyway, thanks.
I will definitely post the results of the Dulce base conference here.

Great! I can't wait to see the results...

[edit on 26-3-2009 by EarthCitizen07]

Norio!

authorhouse just helped me with a website.

I put a link up to the conference.

It's probably too late since it isn't a known site, but I did it anyway.