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Victorian bushfires: a conspiracy or not?

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posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 04:13 AM
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Originally posted by andrew123
No what is a joke is people not wanting to talk about it.



Originally posted by OzWeatherman This thread is a disrespect to all those that fought, survived and died through the Victorian bushfires Actually, it's got nothing to do with them whatsoever. You are letting your emotions control you. Given who is in control of this planet, and how they operate, I think it's worth considering they may have been behind it. If anything, we owe it to the dead to find out the truth about how these fires started, rather than blindly trust the media. I haven't a clue how they started, but I won't automatically rule anything out simply because the idea is too emotional.


Respect.


That is a word you may not have learnt.

Respect
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Respect (disambiguation).

Respect is esteem for, or a sense of the worth or excellence of, a person, a personal quality, ability, or a manifestation of a personal quality or ability. In certain ways, respect manifests itself as a kind of ethic or principle.

en.wikipedia.org...


Schools out.


Perhaps you should read the post of someone that has EARNED Respect.



ok, this may lose some people. basically there are 3 different organiations that are put to work when a bush fire starts. You have the CFA, DSE and the State Aircraft Unit. I'm part of the latter. Now, if a fire starts on private property, the DSE and SAU are not allowed to get involved until the CFA have checked the fire and decided if they require our help. This decision is not made by the crews on the ground, or even their station commander but by a big wig in the Disaster Coordination Centre located in melbourne. By this stage, as was seen with the Boolara fire, the blaze has either been put out by the CFA, or is now alot bigger they are able to control. The DSE cover public lands and they follow basically the same procedure as the CFA. all decisions need to be made by a person in the DCC who cannot see the fire, has no idea of the conditions on the ground and has probably not been outside all day. This situation only gets worse when we are on the job, both the guys on the ground and us in the air over the fire. I can't speak for the guys on the ground, but those of us flying have worked with each other for years, we have fought fires with each other for years and have alot of experience with how a fire is going to move based on the current weather and the terrain its in, we know what needs to be done to hold back a fire front. Now, the Helitak guys (the guys who coordinate the aircraft over the fire) are normally very experienced. They have a much larger view of the fire and direct us to best contain the fire. The problem is, in recent years it has been SAU/DSE policy to rotate the Helitak observers around to the DCC. this leaves us with inexperienced observers who we have never worked with, who do not know how to utilised the aircraft to their best and above all, do not trust or rely on our years of experience and will not listen or take advice from us. Near on everyday after operations where over there was more than 1 pilot who felt like beating certian "experts". We had the fire under control in Boolara and were making headway in putting it out when coordinating with the ground crews, but then the decision was made by the bosses in Melb to pull the aircrews off the blaze and you guessed it, the fire was out of control again come morning. The other issue is that aerial operations don't begin until 11am. Why, because the "experts" attend morning breifing at 9am to 10am, then they brief the air crews until 11am by which time the fire is back in full swing. They won't listen to us when we say brief at 5am and be on the fire at 6am when it is at its most sedate. we would have alot more effect that way. At the end of the day it comes down to 3 seperate departments trying to justify their existance. none of them are willing to work effectively with another department because they fear it'll men that they get combined into 1 unified dept, which would be the best god damn thing that would happen. Give us out experienced guys back and remove all the beuracratic bull that happens and we would be a better fire fighting tool than we are currently.





Yeah... I know...

My band and 5 others played all day to raise some money in the short term.

And we will do it again with more planning for the long time.


What are you doing?



Mungo




posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 07:56 AM
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why not let the government pay for their mistake.. it will be our money anyway.



posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 01:50 AM
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well? You can't say my point is unfounded..



posted on Mar, 13 2009 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by andrew123
 


Andrew. Whether or not you believe the government was involved in causing the bushfires that devastated country Victoria, the fact is, people died. Real people. Not enemies of the state targeted for execution.

Real people, lucky enough to escape with their lives, lost everything they own. Everything. Nothing but the shirt on their backs.

So yeah, I donated some money, does that really make me "a lost ****. "

The fact is that fellow Australians needed help. Yes I expect the authorities to be able to help in the long run, but these people needed emergency funds asap. Funds for immediate needs. Food. Clothes. Water. It took 5 days for FEMA to get water to the superdome. I wasnt going to be like you. Leave all the responsibilty to others.

I bet if you lived there youd happily be spending my and others donated charity.

CT



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 05:57 AM
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mate you are a joke, its ridiculous to say that the fires are a government conspiracy. The government were irresponsible and the only thing i see them gain is the $280 million in public donations. Where's the money gone? Divide it by the number of victims and its at least $200,000 each. Did every victim get $200,000?



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 08:51 AM
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Yes I am an American and I am horrified by what happened in Victoria. I am MORE horrified that the government in Australia DID NOT LEARN A THING FROM THIS!




....Since last spring the Barmah community has been working to convince DSE to undertake urgent fire prevention works in the forest because of the high fire danger to the Barmah township. This fire threat is very real, and in the wake of the horrific Black Saturday fires, the entire Barmah township is on edge.

If we are to take one lesson from the recent bushfire disaster, it is that unless fuels are maintained at safe levels, then we will have unsafe forests and the potential for more terrifying infernos. The DSE gave an undertaking at a fire plan meeting in Barmah on December 9 to reduce the fuel load by grading roads and slashing long grass between the river road and the river on Barmah Island.

Soon after however, DSE reneged on those undertakings on the grounds that it was too expensive and that it might encourage more campers in the forest. In January this year, DSE told a Barmah community meeting that it was impossible to reduce the fuel hazard in the forest to the amount required by the community.

That is not true. It is not impossible and the community has done it very successfully over the past 150 years through controlled cattle grazing...AgMates



I guess the envoirmentalists have convinced the government that animals and the envoirment is much more important than puny human lives. I recall some Greenie stating "There are too many humans on the earth and the herd needs to be thinned"



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 04:07 PM
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It was interesting how quickly Kevin Rudd labeled it "mass murder". Almost as if to cover the fact he doesn't care.

I think the people who did it were of two classes: teenage punks who are too young to understand the damage of their actions, and people either bribed by the Australian government or working undercover.



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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....Since last spring the Barmah community has been working to convince DSE to undertake urgent fire prevention works in the forest because of the high fire danger to the Barmah township. This fire threat is very real, and in the wake of the horrific Black Saturday fires, the entire Barmah township is on edge.


The fire threat at Barmah is huge...Barmah States Forest used to be logged heavily and there is a very large amount of dead would lying all over the forest. Campers there use that would for their own camofires when you go there which slowly over time gets cleaned up.

The Government Department s approach to keeping barmah under control is they flood the forest every so often with a network of channels and weirs they have there...sure, when everything is wet it dont burn, but it does encourage more growth which when dry adds further to the problem.

Last weekend having been there, there are areas that are very very wet, having been flooded recently, but the higher areas are very very dry.


On a side note, the Black Saturday Bushfires were not a conspiracy, it was a major mismanagement by the Greenie movement and the Government, but I did hear on the radio the other week, that the Monday Morning, straight after the bushfires on Saturday, a mining company out an application in to the government to aquire the land from East Kilmore to Flowerdale for the purpose of establishing a Gold Mine there.

If that doesnt make you think that possibly something untowards may have been involved in the whole scenario I dont know what will.

Atleast for me, if proven correct, it looks like the mining company may have been waiting for the perfect summer bushfire conditions to get a couple of firebugs to start fires so that aquiring land that is burnt would be cheaper than established properties.

Yes, I find it hard to beleive too, but it was on 3AW talkback radio, and I havent heard anything since which has got me thinking.




posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia



....Since last spring the Barmah community has been working to convince DSE to undertake urgent fire prevention works in the forest because of the high fire danger to the Barmah township. This fire threat is very real, and in the wake of the horrific Black Saturday fires, the entire Barmah township is on edge.


The fire threat at Barmah is huge...Barmah States Forest used to be logged heavily and there is a very large amount of dead would lying all over the forest. Campers there use that would for their own camofires when you go there which slowly over time gets cleaned up.

The Government Department s approach to keeping barmah under control is they flood the forest every so often with a network of channels and weirs they have there...sure, when everything is wet it dont burn, but it does encourage more growth which when dry adds further to the problem.

Last weekend having been there, there are areas that are very very wet, having been flooded recently, but the higher areas are very very dry.


On a side note, the Black Saturday Bushfires were not a conspiracy, it was a major mismanagement by the Greenie movement and the Government, but I did hear on the radio the other week, that the Monday Morning, straight after the bushfires on Saturday, a mining company out an application in to the government to aquire the land from East Kilmore to Flowerdale for the purpose of establishing a Gold Mine there.

If that doesnt make you think that possibly something untowards may have been involved in the whole scenario I dont know what will.

Atleast for me, if proven correct, it looks like the mining company may have been waiting for the perfect summer bushfire conditions to get a couple of firebugs to start fires so that aquiring land that is burnt would be cheaper than established properties.

Yes, I find it hard to beleive too, but it was on 3AW talkback radio, and I havent heard anything since which has got me thinking.



Shows you big business is evil. >



posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by Melbourne_Militia
 





If that doesnt make you think that possibly something untowards may have been involved in the whole scenario I dont know what will.


Again I am only an American who likes to read but I found something you might be interested in verifying, since it ties in with what you said.



The fire issues in this state (Victoria) are so scandalous this government can not afford to have them come out into the open. It has become more than apparent from the reports I am receiving that the fire south of Lake Eildon has been deliberately allowed to repeatedly escape when it could have been so easily put out.....

As a Captain of the brigade I had charges layed against me by Greg Flynn the CFA Operations for Region 10 in Gippsland for demonstrating to the media how flammable and dangerous CFA tankers were. I was able to set fire to the crew protection area by burning as little as 3.75% of a single sheet of toilet paper....
Victorian Fire Fighter Blasts Brumby Government & The CFA



posted on Mar, 15 2009 @ 07:45 PM
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Mining companies wanting land, the govt wanting a death penalty, people denying that it is a conspiracy.. I think there is definetly a conspiracy here.. whether we like to believe it or not. To those that are getting emotional.. simple.. don't read or contribute to this thread.



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