Radical Islam

reply to post by TrustMeIKnow


Actually, MM Directly states that the U.S. is not only an imperfect entity, but regularly that the U.S. is the main cause of the world's problems.

Let's do the word substitution with MM statement than, shall we.

Do you agree that Muslims get hung up on U.S. military activity, yet are quite happy when Muslim terrorists blow the heads off people.

Does this sound like a fair statement to you?

Poet, still lying and spreading lies I see. Just where did I say the US was responsible for all the worlds problems, nowhere so stick to the topic in hand and again stop attacking me and telling lies.

the personal attacks end here.

the topic is radical islam so, please, discuss that topic. If you cannot discuss it without going after individual posters, do not post.

carry on.

As for 10 to 15% of Muslims suporting the radivals just where does this info come from, who is supporting it and who is pushing it. Aagin it is not a level playing field as no one is publishing figures of other radical groups. But again if one attacks predominately Muslim nations some one may draw the conclusion that it is a war on people of the Muslim faith. How could anyone think otherwise.

But the powers that be want their war and at the moment its religion. Even that buffoon Bush used the C word right after 9/11 and that was 8 years ago. Now we are fighting in Iraq and Afaganistan with Syria and Iran next on the list. So the peoples of those countries would think the way they do. Also Myuslims elsewhere may think they are a target which is understanable.

However all these actions provide the radicals with all the ammuntion they require. Wras are fought for only 3 reasons, religion, wealth and the view that others are inferior. Any of those or all three are in the mix of any conflict right now its all about religion, under the guise of other objectives but none the less that is what is afoot.

You don't have to be a radical Muslim to demand killing of non believers there are other types too who are radical enough to change your freedoms from within without letting the bomb go off.
There is also an underlying conquest agenda too, you will find that there are mini battles going on under the Western noses. There are court actions and ongoing debates that Muslims should not wear school uniforms and that has been dragged out and Muslim teachers being covered head to toe posing difficulty in teaching methods. Then the Muslim police woman who would not shake the hand of the policeman who recruited her as a form of offence if she did according to her beliefs.
Then there are the bacon phobic scares and the alcohol cleaning fluids in hospitals that some won't use because of their beliefs regardless of safety of others. Headstones without crosses, no crosses in hospitals and schools and prayers because it might offend the Muslim and yet people are willing to accept the defeat for minor things. Churches being turned into Mosques and the self styled conquests in the spirit of their religion carries on and people just don't think the ideology of the methods has anything to do with double standard intolerance on the behalf of the demanders.

This is just a tip of the iceberg and then the fanatics take control once the friction between the nations start in your own doorstep. Regardless of the modern world inciting extremists you would have found out what Islamic ideology was about through the collective rejection of Democracy anyway.

The rejection started when they found out the West was free from the bondage of Mosaic laws and Christians were different knowing that the teachings of the Old Testament was not enough to be saved but only through faith through Christ, regardless how holy people like to be with their ritualistic customs it is not the method of salvation in the Modern world anymore through everyday repeating. Ritualistic customs and Sharia laws slowing eating up the pockets of the free society while people stand there being passive about, when the snake gets hungry it will swollow the mouse eventually.



[edit on 7-3-2009 by The time lord]

One of the biggest questions is, What percentage of Muslim support terrorism, or sympathize enough with terrorists not to take a stand to try and end terrorist activities. Those who ignore and aid the crimes of others, when they benefit from those crimes, are equally guilty of committing those crimes.

The actions of the Western nations are consistently exaggerated by those who apologize and thereby support terrorists. Muslim aggression and imperialism are easy to observe, being that they are carried out on numerous fronts. There are far too many people claiming that the actions of these murderous terrorists are justified, and not nearly enough speaking out against these unjustified actions. While the militaries of Western nations work to stabilize situations and reduce violence, the terrorist work to de-stabilize any areas not under their control, and to increase violence, whether it is in Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Asia, Europe, or Africa.

We need more Muslim moderates speaking out and taking a stand against Muslims extremist. It is time that those of us who recognize the deteriorating situation start to speak out more and more to counter the apologists in our midst who seem bent on placing all blame on the western powers in order to refuse to act before things get far worse.
Failure to act now, only means that the situation will worsen, and eventually the response will be far worse than it needs to be.

You guys are freaking ridiculous. I'd like to show you your hypocrisy, after which I would love for this thread to be closed, but alas it will probably just let the bickering and hate speech continue on.

Originally posted by The time lord
There are court actions and ongoing debates that Muslims should not wear school uniforms and that has been dragged out and Muslim teachers being covered head to toe posing difficulty in teaching methods.

There are plenty of Christian activists who complain about taking religion out of school. I agree that it has no place. If you want to pray on your own time you should be able to do so as long as it does not interfere with the classroom teaching (ie. while teacher is talking). At lunch, on break, after school, I have no problem! And how does middle eastern garb affect teaching ability?

Then the Muslim police woman who would not shake the hand of the policeman who recruited her as a form of offence if she did according to her beliefs.

...and? If I dont want to shake someones hand (whether by choice or religion) I shouldnt be forced to either. Neither should you.

Then there are the bacon phobic scares and the alcohol cleaning fluids in hospitals that some won't use because of their beliefs regardless of safety of others.

So? Bacon is terrible for you. I would (theoretically) agree with you about the alcohol based cleaners, IF you showed some proof that even happens. I had a good friend who was a Muslim and would never drink alcohol. Doesnt mean he wouldnt hold someones drink when they went to the bathroom, or help them carry it to the car.

Headstones without crosses, no crosses in hospitals and schools and prayers because it might offend the Muslim and yet people are willing to accept the defeat for minor things.

And? I dont want a cross on my gravestone - IF I were even to be buried. People shouldnt be buried period in my opinion. It is unsanitary and wastes usable land. Imagine if we were to remove all the graveyards. There are some massive ones near where I live. They could build homeless shelters, community centres, youth activities centres to prevent them from joining gangs.

Churches being turned into Mosques

Again, provide some evidence, if you mean that literally. If you mean you are seeing more mosques then grow up, they have a right to practice just as much as you do. Which leads me to my next point

double standard intolerance on the behalf of the demanders.

Just as you clearly show. Why dont you go protest the practice of Christianity in the Middle East? Tell them they shouldnt be allowed to worship Jesus there? Wait I know - it's because you are a hardcore Christian and you can only see your side of the argument.

you would have found out what Islamic ideology was about through the collective rejection of Democracy anyway.

From wikipedia

Iran's democratically elected government of Mosadeq was toppled in a coup carried out by the CIA in 1953, transforming Iran into a US clent under the country's pro-western conservative monarch, Mohammad Raza shah Pahlavi.The United states quickly complemented this development with the conclusion of bilateral and multilateral economic and military pact with Turkey and Pakistan.

Iran was a democracy until the US intervened.

Constitutional monarchy can be said to be at least partly embraced in some countries that are generally considered more democratic. Jordan, Kuwait, Morocco, and Bahrain are examples of this category.

If you even think about saying they arent democracies, Norway and Canada are also in this category.

Lebanon traditionally enjoyed a confessional democratic system. Indeed, Lebanon had prided itself on its democratic environment which sought to maintain a semblance of equity within its diverse population, and claims were made that within the country 'democracy and freedom are indispensable ingredient for a stable political system'.[19] The Lebanese constitution that was written in 1926 was based on the French constitution and it secured equality and freedom among all its citizens. A large number of political parties, with very different ideologies, are active in Lebanon, but most of them form political alliances with other groups of similar interests. Even though certain high profile positions in the government and the seats in the parliament are reserved to specified sects, very strong competition between different party and independent candidates is expected in the elections.

Lebanon is a perfect example.

it is not the method of salvation in the Modern world anymore through everyday repeating.

I know plenty of people who kneel before their beds every night and pray. I also know many people who use rosaries and say prayers every day. Wait, lets not forget saying grace before dinner!

So now that you see that that Muslim through the window was really just a mirror, maybe you should meditate on that for a while.

reply to post by poet1b

Originally posted by poet1b
One of the biggest questions is, What percentage of Muslim support terrorism, or sympathize enough with terrorists not to take a stand to try and end terrorist activities.

Why dont you first find out what percentage abhor violence and war in its entirety?

Those who ignore and aid the crimes of others, when they benefit from those crimes, are equally guilty of committing those crimes.

How do majority Muslims benefit from extremists killing people? Is it because the world views them in a positive light from such? From your attitude, and many people on this site alone, plus testimony from friends, I can decisively say, no. Clearly you have shown you view them all negatively because of the actions of a few.

The actions of the Western nations are consistently exaggerated by those who apologize and thereby support terrorists.

Exaggerated? Maybe you should look into why exactly the US has a military base in every country. Not to mention running spy rings globally. And anyone with rudimentary knowledge of American foreign policy will know how the US changes what it doesnt like. South America alone has had many forced government coups.

Muslim aggression and imperialism are easy to observe, being that they are carried out on numerous fronts.

Replace Muslim with American. Therrre ya go. Same diff.

There are far too many people claiming that the actions of these murderous terrorists are justified, and not nearly enough speaking out against these unjustified actions.

Therefore, you are a terrorist, claiming that the US is justified in its endeavours. You are responsible for the deaths of millions.

We need more Muslim moderates speaking out and taking a stand against Muslims extremist.

I agree, but you have to go look sometime. Many Muslims protest violence of all kinds. We also need more moderate anythings speaking out against war in general, including US imperialism.

It is time that those of us who recognize the deteriorating situation start to speak out more and more

starting off goood...

to counter the apologists in our midst who seem bent on placing all blame on the western powers in order to refuse to act before things get far worse.

Doh! I should say that most of the blame goes on the collective west's foreign policy, ownership of foreign resources (which is why they nationalise them), spying and military installations abroad, encroaching on "holy land", supporting monetarily and militarily enemies of middle eastern countries, sanctions based on false pretenses, control over key passageways, etc etc. But I agree we are not 100% at fault. But you dont give us enough credit for the # we dish out. (We being the west, I am not American).

Failure to act now, only means that the situation will worsen, and eventually the response will be far worse than it needs to be.

Situations already hit bottom, and fallen through. It will take a miracle to patch up relationships at this point. Just like when your girlfriend cheats on you.

Originally posted by poet1b
whether it is in Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Asia, Europe, or Africa.

If the issue is 'radical islam' -- we're not talking 'muslim' here we're talking 'radical islam' -- then you have to look at where 'radical islam' has actually been an open issue in causing violence/war/terrorism.

In that case, to quote a better source on it than I for sure:

It's all about Iraq, isn't it?

Yep, it's all about Iraq and...

India and the Sudan and Algeria and Afghanistan and New York and Pakistan and Israel and Russia and Chechnya and the Philippines and Indonesia and Nigeria and England and Thailand and Spain and Egypt and Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia and Ingushetia and Dagestan and Turkey and Morocco and Yemen and Lebanon and France and Uzbekistan and Gaza and Tunisia and Kosovo and Bosnia and Mauritania and Kenya and Eritrea and Syria and Somalia and California and Kuwait and Virginia and Ethiopia and Iran and Jordan and United Arab Emirates and Louisiana and Texas and Tanzania and Germany and Australia and Pennsylvania and Belgium and Denmark and East Timor and Qatar and Maryland and Tajikistan and the Netherlands and Scotland and Chad and Canada and China and Nepal and the Maldives and Argentina and Angola and...

...and pretty much wherever Islam is "taken seriously:"

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who
are near to you, and let them find harshness in you,
and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty"
Qur'an, Sura 9:123

Originally posted by DJMessiah

You can trace many if not all the major problems in the Middle East to Western meddling, including radical Islam. Thanks to the West, Wahabism took over Saudi Arabia and all moderate belief systems were forced to take a back seat.

That is such an oversimplification. Firstly, what do you mean by "Western meddling?" It is so easy and convenient for Muslim individuals to blame all their problems on somebody else. I have actually had enough of reading all these excuses that sympathisers such as yourself keep repeating over and over.

"Why were Western citizens murdered on Indian soil (Mumbai)?" - Oh, because they meddle in Islam's affairs.

"Why were Pakistani police officers murdered while trying to protect Sri Lankan cricketers?" - Well Sri Lanka is "backed" by Westerners so they deserve to die for the mistreatment of Muslims.

"Why two Buddhists riding a motorcycle are shot and then burned by Islamic Militants?" - Well, these Buddhists are supported by Western nations (these Buddhists actually preach understanding and compassion, how awful).

Well DJ, care for me to include other examples of Extremist Islam Gone Mad (EIGM)?

I spent 2 years in the middle east and what most Americans do not understand is there is no moderate Muslims thats a PC term nothing more.
A Muslim either believes the Quran or doesnt and if they believe then the Quran is a way of life its a belief its laws and its a form of government! I have made many friends with Muslims while there but i know if it came down to there beliefs they were unwavering.

Truth is they will follow the Qurans teachings and even moderates will protect family honor case in point.

NEW YORK (CNN) -- The founder of an upstate New York TV station aimed at countering Muslim stereotypes has been arrested on suspicion of killing his wife, who was beheaded, authorities said.

Ironically, Bridges TV was launched by Hassan in 2004 in Buffalo, New York, in an effort to portray Muslims in a more positive light.

Muzzammil Hassan, who founded Bridges TV in November 2004 to counter anti-Islam stereotypes, surrendered to police Thursday. Hassan touted the network as the "first-ever full-time home for American Muslims," according to a press release. "Every day on television we are barraged by stories of a 'Muslim extremist, militant, terrorist, or insurgent,'" Hassan said in the 2004 release. "But the stories that are missing are the countless stories of Muslim tolerance, progress, diversity, service and excellence that Bridges TV hopes to tell."

Now to ward off the politically correct i dont hate Muslims but i will say take the time to study the Quran and i dont mean the censored version mosques in the United States gets and see if it doesnt scare you it did me.Even had discussions with a friend who invited me to his house for dinner several times and even he admitted that eventually everyone will be a Muslim or living under the teachings of the Quran.


[edit on 3/8/09 by dragonridr]

The problem with the theology at base is that it essentially allows, "when convenient," its people to 'appear to be' anything as long as the eventual goal is the same (everybody non-Muslim or not-Muslim-enough will be killed or enslaved and living under Sharia law). You can hang out with people who seem like decent and ordinary people but that doesn't mean their underlying intent is innocent. It just means that as there is no way to impose it right this moment, they're not worried about it. Should opportunity arise it would be pretty different.

One interesting example of this is when the Iranian regime changed and so many people from Iran immigrated to the USA. Eventually there was a commonly recurring issue, in that women would marry Iranian men who had even gone to school here (been here many years), seemed like perfectly ordinary guys, their religion did not seem particularly invasive, but then all the sudden the children vanished into the family or when they were allowed to move back to Iran the women were radically reduced to a lifestyle/position they'd never dreamed their husband even believed in. I've known women who were previously married to Muslims and eventually the blinders fell away. And usually when they tried to escape it became literally a stalking, life-threatening situation.

I'm sure not everybody is this way. But this topic is 'radical islam' and one of the more disturbing things about the 'radical' part is how it can lie low in seemingly friendly, innocuous people and situations until opportunity arises.

PJ

reply to post by Ridhya

It's hard trying to answer another diract reply but will try and do so without using quotes so it makes sense.

What I am saying that there are issues that should not be issues or were never a problem untill a the Muslim immigration came into place. As for shaking of the policeman's hand on her Police Graduation ceremony showed a lack of respect and differences in her beliefs and her work as a duty police woman. If she has trouble shaking hands on the basis of congratulations then how much harder will it be for her to police properly but this is just one of many petty complaints that show lack of diplomacy in the two different worlds she is living in?
news.bbc.co.uk...


www.thesun.co.uk...

SOME Muslims are undermining the battle to rid Britain’s hospitals of killer infections by refusing to wash their hands when visiting sick relatives.
Dispensers containing anti-bacterial gel have been placed outside wards at hospitals all over Britain in a bid to get rid of superbugs like MRSA and PVL.

It prevents people bringing in more infections. But some Muslims refuse to use the hand cleansers on religious grounds because they contain alcohol.

Text

Altough bacon is bad for you one thing I did not go into is that some people refuse to touch it too on he grounds of their beliefs which is even a further phobic behaviour based on faith.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

MUSLIM supermarket checkout staff who refuse to sell alcohol are being allowed to opt out of handling customers’ bottles and cans of drink.

Islamic workers at Sainsbury’s who object to alcohol on religious grounds are told to raise their hands when encountering any drink at their till so that a colleague can temporarily take their place or scan items for them.

Text

The little intollerant wars go on and on in society bit by bit, you think it means nothing to the West. Do we feel like we are intolerating intolerance, some people think so and that non-muslims infedel attitudes seem to rise to the question of the petty actions.

As for grave stones, what I was saying was that muslims have complained about crosses been up everywhere and demanding bans on them. Why should we in the councils of the West ban our own cultural heritage because someone from Arabia decided to live here and found out it was Islamic and it demands conversion. Again all these attitudes stem for the Mohammad conqest personality and stories of the religious attitudes they have. It's the same outline that has been branded in the Muslim world not to accept anything non Islamic as it is seen impure in their eyes. The Qur'an says ban the Cross and so people of that culture implement that when they see the holes in Democracy that bends backwards in tolerance and so for the sake of a that minority out of fear, someties fear of riots. Because that fear comes from taking the issue to courts and using people's energy to deal with trivial matters when that problem never existed untill someone of the Muslim faith decided not to fit into their surroudings with equal understanding.

But I like to be fair in my opinions saying I have seen young Muslim women handle bacon and Alcohole in supermarkets where I live, but it only takes one to change the situation.

As for Christian prayer, people are allowed to do so when they want, there is no strict method rule saying 5 times a day and kneel to the ground, everyone prays whether on the train or on the bus but it does not matter if you miss a few days either, there is no millitant style army like procedures in Christian prayer compared to Islamic laws even though not every Muslim follows that code.

Mod Note: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.
The reply to button works better when you are responding to a large post.


[edit on 8-3-2009 by Crakeur]

I agree Moderater it does look complicated putting too many quotes up, even I get lost in translation.

[edit on 8-3-2009 by The time lord]

[edit on 8-3-2009 by The time lord]

[edit on 8-3-2009 by The time lord]

reply to post by Ridhya


If you think yours is the one and only true religion, and that everyone should live according to the rules that you live by, then those who act to to support your beliefs, you see as a benefit to yourself, and society as a whole. If those people are doing the work of God, by blowing up non-believers, then they are benefiting your cause. While many may pretend that this is mind boggling, it is quite easy to understand.

First of all, the U.S. does not have a base in every country, and U.S. Imperialism does not exist. Mostly, U.S. military presence around the globe is to act as the world's police. The U.S. isn't trying to conquer any of these nations, not even Iraq. People who claim that the U.S. has imperialistic intentions are completely ignorant of history.

If you think U.S. soldiers are terrorists, then you are completely devoid of a understanding of the realities of this world. Islamic terrorist are doing most of the killing in Iraq, by a long shot. Did you read about the woman in Iraq who blew herself up in a tent full of women and children not so long ago in Iraq, who were on a pilgrimage? Can you not see the difference between such an act, and a U.S. soldier pulling duty at a check point to prevent such acts?

As far as what percentage of the worlds problems belong to the Western nations, all you have to do is look to where all the problems exist, where all the violence is taking place. This rational that Muslims are such murderous buggers because Western powers force them to be is ludicrous beyond imagination. Hey, you think the culture of the West is sooo bad, leave. Find out what it means to live among the peaceful people of Islam. Go make yourself a home in SA. Oh yeah, you will tell yourself that the problems the people of SA have to live with is due to the meddling of the U.S.. My neighbor is an Ahole, it is the fault of the U.S.. Yes, yes, of course it is.

No, things have not hit rock bottom, not by a long shot. In the WW II time frame, it is 1933. We are a long ways from hitting the beaches of Normandy.

Here is what I think is the problem with the current so called liberal philosophy that wants to pretend the radical Islamic movement is not a serious problem. They want to pretend that the Homer Simpson version of the average American is as shallow as the average media type wants to portray. To look deeper, is beyond where they desire to go. The truth of the matter requires them to start to respect that which runs contrary to their own hypocrisy. To admit the average American is not a bad guy, means that their justifications for treating people like machines, is seriously flawed. Thus, we are at the crux of what is wrong with our society. Thus, we are forced to repeat history.

Here is but another face of those who support a radical agenda for Islam.

news.bbc.co.uk...

At least 57 other people were wounded in the attack, carried out by a bomber on a motorcycle. Meanwhile, the US military says it is to reduce troop numbers in the country by 12,000 in the next six months. The level of violence in Iraq has declined since 2007, but it remains a feature of daily life for many Iraqis. At least 12 people died two days ago when a car bomb exploded at a cattle market in Babil province. There are still almost daily violent incidents in Baghdad.

These attacks aren't being carried out by U.S. soldiers, they are attacks carried out by the radical elements of Islam, who do not want peace. These attacks serve no purpose but to stir up trouble, prevent peace, prevent the people of Iraq from living decent lives. This clearly shows that these radicals care nothing for peace, or for anyone, including their fellow Muslims. They only care about one thing, pushing their agenda of a world controlled by their fanatic religious beliefs.

Originally posted by poet1b
These attacks aren't being carried out by U.S. soldiers, they are attacks carried out by the radical elements of Islam, who do not want peace. These attacks serve no purpose but to stir up trouble, prevent peace, prevent the people of Iraq from living decent lives. This clearly shows that these radicals care nothing for peace, or for anyone, including their fellow Muslims. They only care about one thing, pushing their agenda of a world controlled by their fanatic religious beliefs.

You are undeniably correct here. People love to quote how many hundreds of thousands of civilians have been killed since the Coalition's invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. What the vast majority forget to ask is why these civilian numbers are so high. They are so overwhelmingly high because Islamic Fanatics carry out suicide bombs in areas that are mainly filled with civilians.

Anyone who doubts this, why don't you go do some unbiased research (i.e. research that does not damn one side form the onset, and states facts clearly) on the number of civilians killed due to Insurgent Fanatics. Radical Islamic fanatics get let off way too easy by those in the Western media and around the world. It's pretty much seen as "oh coalition invaded so they must be blamed for all the violence caused afterwards." This is a logically flawed argument, and a cop-out for those who sympathise with Islamic terrorism.

In all seriousness, do you think these Insurgent Fanatics really care about their country, care about their citizens? Do you think they actually want their country to be stable and safe? What exactly are these Insurgents fighting for? Are their actions creating more trouble and strife for Iraq and Afghanistan? Yes, they are making things much worse.

[edit on 9/3/2009 by Dark Ghost]

I just found these videos and I can back track everything I said as having a reason and purpose and not some delusion as people think through research. This is what will happen if and many to the UK keep on denying it, the conquering attitude is built into the fabric of their Laws and spiritual values regardless your freedoms and choices afterwards, in the end if it takes a slow burning candle to do it it will.

I think first generation Muslims be it from the 60s or just comming in to Europe and he UK pose the worst extremist views because they are fresh from from their structual beliefs. Second or third generation Muslims seem better through real British education and are probably what we call moderates, as I have seen my self in society the school leavers can still end up being radicalised once they go back to their societies in domenant Muslim areas.

Remember the definition of Opression in Islam is the Freedom of not being a Muslim and countries not under Sharia Law.

Opression in the free world is the definiton of not having the choices of freedom and human rights.








[edit on 9-3-2009 by The time lord]

[edit on 9-3-2009 by The time lord]

reply to post by The time lord


I don't know how anyone can listen to these two films and not be outraged. It would be the same as someone saying that all Muslims must be either converted to another faith, enslaved, or killed, and that we can not rest until this is done.

I am just an observer I can not change what the politicians are up to and really hate all wars and just want to live in harmony like everyone else in the civilised planet, man has to deal with earthquakes, floods, famine fires and all sorts of disasters and yet we seek more war on each other. Damn its annoying and worse when people are in denial and do nothing about it.

A Song from
PSALM 83:

2 See how your enemies are astir,
how your foes rear their heads.
3 With cunning they conspire against your people;
they plot against those you cherish.
4 "Come," they say, "let us destroy them as a nation,
that the name of Israel be remembered no more."
5 With one mind they plot together;
they form an alliance against you-
6 the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
of Moab and the Hagrites,
7 Gebal, [a] Ammon and Amalek,
Philistia, with the people of Tyre.
8 Even Assyria has joined them
to lend strength to the descendants of Lot.
Selah

Text

[edit on 9-3-2009 by The time lord]

We have all seen this haven't we?
www.youtube.com...