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Challenge Match: enigmania vs. intrepid: ATS Censors Entire Subjects

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posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 08:45 PM
The topic for this debate is “ATS censors entire subjects.”

enigmania will be arguing the pro position and will open the debate.
intrepid will argue the con position.

Each debater will have one opening statement each. This will be followed by 3 alternating replies each. There will then be one closing statement each and no rebuttal.

There is a 10,000 character limit. Excess characters will be deleted prior to judging.

Editing is strictly forbidden. For reasons of time, mod edits should not be expected except in critical situations.

Opening and closing statements must not contain any images and must have no more than 3 references.

Excluding both the opening and closing statements, only two images and no more than 5 references can be included for each post. Each individual post may contain up to 10 sentences of external source material, totaled from all external sources.

Links to multiple pages within a single domain count as 1 reference but there is a maximum of 3 individual links per reference, then further links from that domain count as a new reference. Excess quotes and excess links will be removed before judging.

Videos are not permitted. This includes all youtube links and other multi-media video sources.

The Socratic Debate Rule is in effect. Each debater may ask up to 5 questions in each post, except for in closing statements- no questions are permitted in closing statements. These questions should be clearly labeled as "Question 1, Question 2, etc.

When asked a question, a debater must give a straight forward answer in his next post. Explanations and qualifications to an answer are acceptable, but must be preceded by a direct answer.

This Is The Time Limit Policy

Each debate must post within 24 hours of the timestamp on the last post. If your opponent is late, you may post immediately without waiting for an announcement of turn forfeiture. If you are late, you may post late, unless your opponent has already posted.

Each debater is entitled to one extension of 24 hours. The request should be posted in this thread and is automatically granted- the 24 hour extension begins at the expiration of the previous deadline, not at the time of the extension request.

In the unlikely event that tardiness results in simultaneous posting by both debaters, the late post will be deleted unless it appears in its proper order in the thread.

Judging will be done by a panel of anonymous judges. After each debate is completed it will be locked and the judges will begin making their decision. One of the debate forum moderators will then make a final post announcing the winner.

Good luck to you both.


posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 06:49 AM
reply to post by TheBorg

Welcome all.

I'll be very brief, it's not even a debate.


1. suppression of published or broadcast material: the suppression of all or part of a play, movie, letter, or publication considered offensive or a threat to security 2. suppression of something objectionable: the suppression or attempted suppression of something regarded as objectionable".

This is exactly what ATS is doing, no matter how you look at it.

The fact that members signed an agreement, or that the site is privately owned, doesn't take anything away from it being censorship.

By definition.

My only point is that ATS should cut the charade, and just admit it is censoring these subjects, for it's own credibility's sake.

Peace out.

posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 10:12 PM
I would like to thank TheBorg for setting this challenge match up and my esteemed opponent for participating. I hope the readers will enjoy it.

ATS censors entire subjects.

This has been a "hot button" topic of late. You don't have to go far to find some that think that ATS is doing just this. In this debate I will show that not only is it incorrect but that ATS has gone above and beyond to cater to alternative topics.

My opponent has give a dictionary representation of what censorship is. It's become popular with those that would have their own way on internet sites. Let's look at historical and legal definitions of what censorship is.

The suppression or proscription of speech or writing that is deemed obscene, indecent, or unduly controversial.

The term censorship derives from the official duties of the Roman censor who, beginning in 443 b.c., conducted the census by counting, assessing, and evaluating the populace. Originally neutral in tone, the term has come to mean the suppression of ideas or images by the government or others with authority.


The English-speaking world began wrestling with issues of censorship in the seventeenth century. In his Areopagitica (1644), John Milton argued in favor of the right to publish, free from government restraint. In the United States, the First Amendment to the Constitution (1787) guarantees Freedom of Speech and Freedom of the Press. When a U.S. government agency attempts to prohibit speech or writing, the party being censored frequently raises these First Amendment rights. Such cases usually involve communication that the government perceives as harmful to itself or the public.


Point of order. When quoting a source providing a link is essential. The reader, judges and opponents need it to verify and/or contest the info provided.


Censorship being an action of the gov't. Whatever level.

Socratic question #1- Is ATS a gov't agency?

Any entity, be it a coffee shop or an internet site has the right of self determination(within the law), it's focus. How many, "No shoes, no shirt, no service" signs have you seen? This can be clouded at times. Does the vendor turn away a person wearing a serape? It's not a "shirt" but it fulfills the basic premise of the policy. Judgment call.

ATS has the T&C which governs what is ATS' policy. Everyone is bound by it..... BY PERSONAL AGREEMENT. ATS' focus. By agreeing to it all members are BOUND by it. That includes myself and my opponent. It's a contract between the individual member and the site. This is described here.

If there is an agreement between the site and the individual member that a certain topic is not allowed can censorship be called into play? It's the sites focus. Their policy. NO ONE forced any member to agree to the T&C. That was left up to the individual. Can censorship be called when both parties are already in agreement as to what will be posted?

Socratic question #2- Were you forced to agree with the T&C?

Socratic question # 3. As this topic is "ATS Censors Entire Subjects" what topics are you talking about?

Back to you enigmania.

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