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Gold and Silver are no Good

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posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 04:25 PM
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I have read many threads on ATS and articles elsewhere advising people to buy gold, silver and other high value items. The big problem is is that such items are not legal tender and not only that when some one realises you have such commodities they will soon be trying to part you from it.

Just how do you go down to your local store with your bar of gold, what would you get for it and would you expect change? Such valuables in their traditional form are not easily negotiated to buy goods. And when your on your uppers you know that your going to get screwed the minute that shiny metal comes out.

I think rather than convincing people to buy such items especially now at sky high prices like a $1000 an ounce for gold you would be better off with the most basic items which in times of shortage hold high value. In fact those with the gold might be using that just to get those things.

As a rule of thumb anything that cannot be home grown or made will have a high value should the poop hit the fan. Think of things like coffee, tobaco, salt, sugar or tea if your English. These most basic items that we all take for granted are the first things that disapear off the shelves. And when they do the value of such goods goes through the roof so they are good bartering items. I have a good store of such items and they are easy to get in bulk when they are cheap.

Look at the bigger picture what would you want your $1000 ounce of gold or a $1000 of food you can barter with that will get you much more. There are many other items but as I said its usaully the things we take for granted that we overlook and the kinds of things that are easily obtained. Any kind of veg seed or fruit seed is another good item, you cannot eat gold or silver but you can grow your own food which will help.

As for none food items the list is endless and again its the most basic items that can be of the greatest value, fuel of course is a big winner but it can be a problem with storage. Any medicines and/or drugs will have a high value, try and get as much as you can as such products soon disappear.




posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 04:29 PM
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reply to post by magicmushroom
 


Seeds, guns, ammo, small budding plants, survival clothes, shoes, hats, glasses, sun block, insect repellent, books, cigarettes, flash lights, drugs, knives, saws, clocks (non electric/battery powered), air tight food containers, lye, bars of soap.

That's all I can think of at the moment.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by magicmushroom
 


"I have read many threads on ATS and articles elsewhere advising people to buy gold, silver and other high value items. The big problem is is that such items are not legal tender"


The thing about laws, is that they've been changed in the past and they'll be changed again in the future. The intrinsic value of gold has and always will be there.

I do agree with you, that basic commodities are more important. Gold acts more as currency only when there's a monetary vacuum. Once the immoral act of setting prices sets back in, gold will again become a jewel/object of vanity.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 05:07 PM
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I couldn't agree more. Posted about this on another thread not to long ago. I can't afford gold and silver at the current prices, so I've decided to stock up on a few things that aren't so commonly thought of as survival food as well as some that are.

IMO the following items will garner a good bit of barter power.

Salt, Sugar, Coffee, Chocolate (in either cocoa or bar form), Pens/Pencils, Paper, Journal Books (for a select few) and OTC Drugs.

I like some of the additional things that have been posted so far. I've actually been looking into getting some heirloom seeds and there is a place only about 150 miles from where I live where you can buy them AND get a tax deduction!
Buy heirloom seeds and screw uncle sam at the same time! (I itemize my deductions so YaY)



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 05:10 PM
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Guns, ammo, tobacco, coffee, flour, booze, "now banned so not mentioned", and anything you can produce on your own----veggies, meat etc., small solar and wind generators.
The products and services necessary are well known, and have worked many times in the past for trade items, and will most likely be trade items in the next fall of a society.
Gold and silver, in a short term scenario, will be useless. But in a mid or longer term---well----gold will be for the wealthy, and silver for the common folk as a medium of exchange.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 05:14 PM
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reply to post by magicmushroom
 


We must go back to where our country went wrong...we must realize that almost every US president has graduated from YALE...been a member of SKULLandBONES,have made oaths to SATAN and the "Almighty Dollar", and the ideal of MASS HUMAN CONTROL AND DESTRUCTION OF INDIVIDUAL FREEDOMS through a one world government.
WHY?
because of the FACT that members of the Illuminati are sick, twisted, insecure individuals with varying degrees of mental illness. Unfortunately, when devious individuals amass great wealth through incestuous bloodlines (bushs' Cheynes', etc.) and unethical business practices, THEY BECOME DANGEROUS. David Rockefeller, Howard Hughes, J.P. Getty. If we look back on US HISTORY and declassified CIA docs...the disguisting TRUTH BECOMES CLEAR!!!

WE THE PEOPLE went wrong when we allowed our gold to be taken from us for a piece of paper and a promise by our own government, hence;
the FEDERAL RESERVE was born.

THANK YOU DAVID ROCKERFELLER for engineering the GREAT DEPRESSION and scaring our forefathers into giving our GOLD to the middlemen called BANKERS.

THANK YOU HUGHES and HEARST for controlling "THE PEOPLES" minds through the MEDIA to the SLAUGHTER...

We must go back to the BARTER SYSTEM where if one needs metals for flour, flour for rice, wheat for oil, gasoline for roses,etc.* we continue to exchange, ALL GOODS and SERVICES with each other. It is proven that bartering works for THE PEOPLE, that is except for THE ILLUMINATI people.
THE ILLUMINATI people consist of 5% of the worlds population and are the very same people who OWN 95% OF THE WORLDS WEALTH!!! the POWER ELITE! DOWN WITH THE ILLUMINATI! POWER TO THE PEOPLE!


BTW...
THE CIA is a component of the Illuminati...
THE VATICAN is the ITALIAN component of the Illuminati



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:17 PM
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Also gold has held value for a long time true, however that doesn't mean it will carry on maintaining value - we are very close to making it cheeply from base metal, his sounds like wild speak but it has already been done at great cost and then more recently a little cheaper -how long till they can bosh it out for a $100 a oz or less?

Pressed stones are different to natural stones because real gems have flaws in them however factory made gold could be melted and mixed with say 14carrot gold to make 24carrot gold perfectly identical to dug gold.

I find it amazing that people will believe that the government has high tech flying craft, pharma are hiding the cure to aids, cancer, etc and GM killed the electric car but the power elite who we all know run a massive diamond scam to keep the price high haven't suppressed the gold making tech untill they can sell their gold.

The real conspiracy behind the global criss is probably that they're making it look like all currencys are ending so they can sell their gold then they'll produce the gold printing machine - all those 'in the know' such as Gordon Brown have already sold all their gold, maybe they're putting all the 'gold shortages' business to make people rush out and buy it -they've got mega-tonns left to sell, it'll take awhile.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 07:03 PM
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LOL LOL LOL...public school thinking and standards par excellence.

Legal Tender...LOL LOL LOL...what a joke..

The word is not legal tender...what nonsense. The word is "LAWFUL TENDER."

Lawful not legal. What will you give up your goods and services for ..in exchange for what.

When the "Legal Tender " no longer works or holds value..the historical tendency is always to go for a barter system which will hold value.

The assumption is made and falsely ...due to public education beliefs..that a people are not able nor have enough acumen/common sense to function on their own but need government/political standards (intelligence, logic and reason) to teach us what is legal tender instead of LAWFUL TENDER.

Remember..it is logical , reasonable, intelligent men who have bought us to this point of economic difficulties!!!!

Legal tender is whatever the government says is legal tender. Whatever they say is used as the medium of exchange or moneys.

Lawful is a fixed substance..not changeable. Lawful is substance...Legal is form only. Huge difference.

What happens in an economy which crashes, is that people by and large eventually figure out for what it is for which they will exchange goods and services. They will figure this out on their own. The government does not do this. Historically what governments have always done, is cheat the public by shaving the coinage and then eventually corrupting the whole money system to worthlessness. You can find this all over in the histories of many nations and peoples.

The government can claim whatever they want about the moneys...but the facts are ...what will it take to get goods and services..not what governments claim is moneys or value. If you have a money which is worthless due to inflations or other problems..people will stop doing what they are doing because if they don't they will take a loss. Common sense.

Legal Tender is always at variance with good sound fiscal policy. The good moneys is always a Lawful Tender not a legal tender.

Why do you people think that Lawful Tender or Lawful Money is a concept which is no longer taught by "EXPERTS' on sound fiscal policy? They don't want you to know anything about it or what it implies in limiting poor government fiscal policy.

Some of you should find out what is stated in 12 United States Codes Annotated section 152. 12 USCA 152. Stated here about the term lawful money and lawful money of account.

12 USC 152 says, The terms lawful money and lawful money of the United States shall be construed to mean gold and silver coin of the United States. You can find this in any book concerning the United States Codes Annotated.

The point here is that when the official tender or legal tender no longer works..people will establish their own tender..or what will work..outside of government. Once again ..the concept is that people are not that naturally stupid..they can figure it out for themselves.

What do you people think was happening way back in the Whiskey Rebellion back in the 1700 early on in the history of the United States. The farmers had figured out how to make their grain last a lot longer by converting it to Whiskey and bypassing the normal money system of the United States...they were operating independently of government. This is a no no...to be able to think for yourself or to develop an independently functioning system.

How many of you know that when Chang Kai Shek moved his people to Taiwan that they established a "Rice Economy?" You could take the paper moneys or demand rice instead. Did you know this?? I didn't until an old man taught me this as a way of preventing the government from totally destabilizing the money system by over printing/over issuance. Sound familiar to any of you?? This served to maintain a moneys of value..and not depreciated moneys..ie ..inflated money systems. In short it gave economic stability by giving monetary stability.

What did it mean on the bottom of the olde type notes when it said??

"Will pay to the bearer on Demand."

One more important thing about moneys...real moneys never needs to be "backed." Real moneys stands on its own merits or demerits and never needs backing because it is in and of itself ..valuable.

When the moneys or whatever you are using as moneys becomes worthless...no amount of government wrangling or political speeches will make it into good moneys. Why??? Because it will become obvious that it will not stand on its own merits or demerits for value.

Real moneys or Lawful Tender ..stands on its own for value. Value never needs to be established by government. Everyone knows it is valuable...in and of itself. Once again ..common sense. That is ..unless you went to public schools and never outgrew the nonsense they teach...as logic, reason, and intellectualism.

As long as the take/graft is not to big and the moneys hold value..and can be exchanged for goods and services...legal tender will work. But when the take/graft becomes to big and the moneys worthless...Legal Tender will fail. We are soon going down that slippery slope and no one in government is telling or teaching anybody about alternatives. Only about the farce of Legal Tender. Wake up people...legal tender is not it...

Lawful Tender is it...and no government/governments running the fiscal scams they have been running will ever be wont to teach you about Lawful Tender or lawful moneys.

Yes...barter for goods and services will work...labor exchange by agreement ...swapping for goods and services...etc etc. But one of the important functions of money is as a "storehouse of value." Paper moneys soon under government graft and corruption loses one of its most important functions as a good moneys...to be a storehouse of value. This is what they will never teach you while extolling the non virtues of Legal Tender...verses the virtues of Lawful Tender.

When the moneys collapse and become worthless...bullets, whiskey, wheat and even rice...will become the new moneys..the new Lawful Tender. In the end it is never what the government declares is Legal Tender...it is what ever it takes to get the goods and services.

Hell people...when it gets this bad..even sex will hold more value than the government paper moneys/legal tender. I should not have to teach this to any of you with a modicum of intelligence. Just ask any woman who has had to survive using sex as a medium of exchange. Hell ..they know more about sound fiscal policy than the brightest government " Expert." LOL LOL LOL...sad but it is true. Can I get an AMEN on this!!??

Do not allow yourself to be deceived by government public education standards concerning Legal Tender. This is nonsense once you know or understand enough history to think it through. This does not even make good nonsense if you know the history.
Why do you think history is such a poorly taught subject in public schools? Even in colleges? Who do you think is paying for and financing public schools and colleges today...government..yes!!?? Politicians Yes?? They will never teach you enough to see that they are naked. You know ..the king has on no clothes??
They will never teach you enough to know the difference in Legal Tender and a Lawful Tender.

Also suggest some of you go to Blacks Law Dictionary and look up the difference in the terms Legal and Lawful. You will see that the term Legal pertains to the form of law. Outward appearances. Lawful pertains to the substance of law. A huge difference in the two systems and the resultant outcomes.

Well ..I am rambling somewhat..but hope this helps some of you who can think further than a television education....ie..a public education.

What has happened historically is that people ...by and large ..throughout history...have determined that the most swappable item which will hold value...a storehouse of value...worldwide...is Gold, Silver, and some forms of Copper for the small denominations.

Money is always whatever a people determine is the "most swappable" commodity. It is not whatever the government in its limited wisdom..declares is moneys today or at anytime.

Thanks,
Orangetom

[edit on 28-2-2009 by orangetom1999]



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 07:09 PM
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I agree about the gold and silver. The Bible says it will "eat like a canker."



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 07:10 PM
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Dont get too extreme in your thinking.

Gold has a place but it is primarily a way to hold onto the monetary value of your saved dollars that will not be used for necessities.
If you have less than $25000 in excess savings then silver will work nicely. These purchases of precious metals will be used to RETAIN VALUE of your assets, not create a new currency. Once a new currency and order is established, you exchange it for the new cash.

The fact that some bartering situations flat out won't work means that some currency or universal trade value would be usefull. A small quantity of silver rounds (worth about 14 dollars each at this point) would be useful for small exchanges. The 1/10 or 1/4 ounce gold pieces would be useful for larger items but not as flexible.

Gold and silver have been used for thousands of years as currency. They will have their uses in a non cash situation. Just don't bank on them for everything.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 07:11 PM
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As another poster has mentioned a lot of the NWO bigwigs are selling off gold at a rapid rate, if that doesn't raise alarm bells then I don't know what will. If gold could be produced very cheaply then people who invested in it will be screwed in a big way - if all the orchestration behind the current crisis is true then they would have foreseen the increased demand for gold and planned for it.

Think about that in earnest.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 07:13 PM
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Guns and an organised group of like minded ( skinned ) people and you can take what ever you need...seeds after someone else tendered them, tobacco from weaker groups or individuals who can easily be over powered.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by Goathief
 

Been there, done that.
I currently work for a gold producer, and I can tell you from personal experience---the products needed for the economical production of gold are getting hard to come by and more expensive, thence, the price goes up for anyone buying, and the price determines the viability of the producers.
The cost of supply has a direct correlation to the cost of demand.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by Goathief
As another poster has mentioned a lot of the NWO bigwigs are selling off gold at a rapid rate, if that doesn't raise alarm bells then I don't know what will. If gold could be produced very cheaply then people who invested in it will be screwed in a big way - if all the orchestration behind the current crisis is true then they would have foreseen the increased demand for gold and planned for it.

Think about that in earnest.


I disagree here. Gold or Silver..or Copper take and require work to produce..to come to frutition. This cannot be said for paper moneys or legal tender. Nor can it be said for loans which amount to electronic entries in a ledger somewhere. These items can be produced much more cleaply than gold, silver, or copper. Gold Silver and copper will never be produced cheaply as compared to other commodities ...especially paper and electronic widgets on an electronic account ledger.

Badgerprints is very much correct..in their concept of holding on to monetary value...a storehouse of value. This is one of the prime functions of a good money..it is a storehouse of value. This cannot be said ever of an historical paper fiat money system. All of these tend towards inflation and eventual debauchery of the value of a currency/money system. History is replete with this example due to the logic, reason, and intelligence of men.

Thanks to all for their posts,
Orangetom



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 08:19 PM
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Since I started visiting this forum, I've seen so many threads "warning" people not to buy gold, that it's becoming a clear pattern, possibly with a more personal motive than "educating" people they don't even know.

Obviously, the less demand for it, the cheaper it is, and I honestly suspect there are posters here who's intent it is to discourage purchasing the metal for their own gain.

We all know, by now, that there's a very real chance of the dollar becoming essentially worthless and hyper inflation setting in with the worlds economies in turmoil. A friend of mine told me about a couple who escaped a country that was experiencing that very same scenario. I can't, off the top of my head, remember which country it was, but the story is frightening.

Apparently their currency was becoming worthless so fast, that when they went to the store, the price of bread literally changed three times from the time they got in line, to the time they got to the cashier.

With so many economists saying that the price of an ounce of gold should, and could easily reach several thousand dollars, why are so many people encouraging others not to buy any, other than a complete collapse of everything we know , and a reversion to the stone age? It could very well be greed, that's why.

Obviously, if your entire net worth is only in the hundreds, or low thousands, buying gold probably isn't such a good idea, because you'll need food, clothing, shelter, and any other basic staples. You'll need to be able to get access to those things you need on a daily basis. What about larger purchases? You're not going to be able to buy a house, or fishing boat with a shed full of beans, thinking so would be delusional.

While it's true, money could become worth less than the paper it's printed on, there will always be a need to exchange things of larger value, and a standard commodity to represent that value. Gold and other metals have always been, and always will be that physically held material of trade.

Again, if it were only one or two threads here encouraging complete strangers not to buy gold, I probably wouldn't take the time to respond and leave it at that. Just the sheer numbers of this exact same message repeated doesn't sit well with me.

Regardless of how bad things get, even in the worst case scenario, cars, homes, boats, planes, generators, tools, and other "big ticket" items will not mysteriously vanish from the face of the earth leaving humans nothing but caves to dwell in.

Yes, it's good to be prepared in the event of a long term food crisis, economic collapse, or natural disaster, but don't spend all your energy praying for an apocalypse.

Just think about how happy some of might now be if you had that 401K in metals, you would have made money, not lost half your savings.

Just remember the old saying..."Don't keep all your eggs in one basket".


One of the oldest civilisations known to man, the Sumerians of Mesopotamia, who lived in what is modern-day Iran and Iraq, first used gold as sacred, ornamental, and decorative instruments in the fifth millennium B.C. Around the same period, the early Egyptians —the richest gold-producing civilisation of the ancient world — began the art of gold refining. Like the Sumerians, the Egyptians used gold primarily for personal adornment, rather than for monetary purposes, although the kings of the fourth to sixth dynasties (c. 2700 - 2270 B.C.) did issue some gold coins. The first large-scale, private issuance of pure gold coins was under King Croesus (560-546 B.C.), the ruler of ancient Lydia, modern-day western Turkey. Stamped with his royal emblem of the facing heads of a lion and a bull, these first known coins eventually became the standard of exchange for worldwide trade and commerce.
Historical Gold Prices

As a disclaimer, I don't buy/sell metals, have anything to do with that market, nor do I know anyone who does. I do, however, personally collect gold/silver coins though, and have for a very long time. I just don't agree with the "advice" I see posted here, repeatedly, week after week.


Peace



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 08:38 PM
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Just the sheer numbers of this exact same message repeated doesn't sit well with me.


The same could be said of the likes of you who encourage the purchasing of precious stones and metals! As I said, if this collapse is being orchestrated the people behind it are no morons and would foresee the buying of the above and plan for it. It's that simple.

Personally I think it would be wise to invest nothing (we are all too fixated on the material) and instead buy things which will keep you alive. Even saying that perhaps the greatest distraction is keeping us away from our spiritual and emotional sides, if people focused on this and worked together then none of this speculation would be needed at all.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 09:59 PM
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Markets (commodities, equities, etc) all cycle. They range from periods of psychological distaste to that of "irrational exuberance". The recent run up has the flavor of approaching the later. The problem is that what is irrational is always "rationalized" by the current circumstances (which are seemingly always "different this time"). Gold and Silver do not do well in period of Deflation IF the deflation doesnt deflate confidence in the underlying stability of the system. Fiat currencies are ultimately doomed to fail but a monetary system solely made up of gold and silver specie is not pracitcal in such a large world economy as well where most transactions are now done electronically and not thru the delivery of cash currency. The purposes of money is primarily as a medium of exchange and store of value. And while the store of value can be depreciated over time by inflation (greater monetary base and velocity of money). Most money is simply exchanged: from income to goods and services. What has gone into assets over the last decade is mostly being deflated. Trillions of dollars that were in real estate and the stock market have gone to "money heaven" and the economy has guaranteed that there will be less discretionary income floating around chasing goods and service thus lessening demand for same (less demand and same supply causes prices to fall). Assuming that the system does not implode and that the Fed has an exit strategy to balance the stimulus money being pumped into the system when (if) the economy does turn around, then one can make the case that we should see more downside in gold and silver...and just like we took out the sept highs we may also take out the nov lows. A lot of people have gone into gold and silver (incl ETFs) as a surrogate savings strategy. Once the stock market and other assets start to rebound we should see people coming out of the precious metals to reemploy those funds and if the economy continues lower (but the financial system remains relatively stable) then people will also have to sell accumulated gold and silver positions (at least lighen up) to raise needed cash. On an Elliott Wave basis one can argue that the Nov Low was an A wave and we just saw the B wave last Monday and now we are headed down in a C wave. Of course, the alternate count is that the correction ended, in fact, last Nov and this is just a minor correction in a larger bull move up.



posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 12:40 AM
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Originally posted by Goathief
As another poster has mentioned a lot of the NWO bigwigs are selling off gold at a rapid rate, if that doesn't raise alarm bells then I don't know what will.

Do you have a source for this info? It seems that if it were the case, other investors would see this and follow suit, bringing gold down drastically, but still after they 'bigwigs' had already cashed out.



posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 01:34 AM
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What!? No tea!?

That's it, a call to arms it is.

Actually I think I heard someone is has started a tea plantation up near Harrogate in Yorkshire so they at least will have their "gold".

I can't afford gold or silver. As much as it would seem to be a good long term investment it's one bird that won't fly here. So yes, my investments are in other items. Affordable ones, and ones that will be of more use should TSHTF.



posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 01:39 AM
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Many people currently have thousands of dollars of Gold and Silver.
Which is just metal painted gold and silver

There is many sites selling fake gold and silver.
And these people have never had it tested.
Not to mention many that have actual real Gold and Silver, that is of a very low less expensive grade than they paid for.



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