A Conspiracy Against ATS?

reply to post by loam


Possibly all three, and possibly also from those people who don't want a site like ATS to prosper and discuss issues that the MSM shies away from.

There has been an increase in mocking against "conspiracy theorists" in the MSM - its been noted on the site a few times now. Its also been noted that the Pentagon has a psy-ops unit. We could be looking at some active interest from there.

reply to post by neformore


Honestly, upon reflection, it seems obvious all four could be possible.

Independently or in concert. Yesterday, today, and/or tomorrow...

That does not surprise me either.

Does it really you? Anyone?

[edit on 2-3-2009 by loam]

LOL im glad im a moderator on a spiritual forum its less active hehe.

But from a moderators point of view i dont claim to have all the answers. But you can pick up attacks on a site pretty quickly. So there is good reason this thread needs to take place to help its members understand that, possibly.

I am sorry for not reading all the 20+ pages of this thread, but I must say that I agree, I also see the trend!

Right now, it seems that the UFO-forum is under some sort of combined "attack".

As you can see, I have been visiting ATS for some time now, and never before have I seen so many new-comers.

Not that they are not welcome, quite the opposite really, but you can clearly see that there are lots of posters that instead of posting anonymously, chose to create a "trash account".

This is a major test of patience and tolerance for the more senior members of ATS. We must be prepared to sort through threads that are consistent of maybe up to 50-60% of bullcrap.

Tough times, people. But whatcha gonna do?
These spammers and trolls will go away eventually...

Remember that the best roses will rise from the riches pile of manure!

Originally posted by americandingbat
reply to post by enigmania

 

If you could get this thread back on topic, that would be pretty awesome in my opinion.

You know, ADB, I do beleive he is staying on topic, in his own way. He seems to be the exact type that the OP was originally posting about, and seems to be proving the truth of the thread's topic with every post.

Chrono

Labeling people is typical authoritarian action.

You are all of these: the prosecutor, the jury and the judge.
It is called: denunciation.


This is being tested (successfully) on this topic and is NOT off the topic.

I was once a member of a forum which moderators kept personal databases on members and even collecting data on members' inter relationships in their private life...

What kind of motivation could have that been?

Careful, people

All I know is my posts that have come under the anonymous setting have yet to appear. Even though I am registered I didnt have my password etc on hand at the time so I used anonymous.
I find that ....intriging considering its happened more than once, and there was nothing profane or even negative in my comments as far as I can tell. Perhaps the mods would like to indicate why this happens or is it just a moment to moment personal discretion - if so - very worrying. If its for other reasons - even more troubling.
Something to ponder.
How many others have experienced this?
Hello? Testing...testing...1,2,3.

Originally posted by amazing
reply to post by eyeforalie

 

Good point but then it would be too obvious?

DISCLAIMER-- I don't really believe this. Just sayin. It is possible. Or for one moderator to be a plant of some covert organization and be collecting IP addresses and other information about members. This is a conspiracy site after all!

Just for the record, they don't need to set up a website like this to collect IP addresses. The government "snifs" the entire internet for keywords and phrases , flags them with IP addresses for analysis. So putting up a single site where only a small percentage of the total internet populace goes, is to inefficient.
Basically, if you've seen "enemy of the state" and juice up the tech, that's what we're looking at.
If you're curious about things like that, go to the EFF,
www.eff.org...
They did have a lawsuit against AT&T for illegally allowing the government to install "nodes" that would tap into all the info that runs through AT&T and would monitor everything without a warrant-thus the illegal part.

Originally posted by enigmania
reply to post by enigmania

 

This whole thread is based on random generalizations and anekdotes of groups of people with a certain opinion. Basically, it's just trash.

Let's guess why this thread was put here.

Read the OP's opening.

What precedent does it set?

You tell me. You brought it up.

Who gains from that precedent?

You tell me. You brought it up.

Why was it so fiercely protected, and no criticism allowed?

Your kidding right?
All you've done is criticize and yet here you still are, still criticizing and being allowed to do so. Looks like this one has been debunked by your own post I like it when they're wrapped up this easy



[edit on 2-3-2009 by jfj123]

Originally posted by enigmania
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

 

If I see the stars at certain posts, I know there's a lot more people that oppose the OP.

They just don't want to speak up, cause they all see the flak it causes.

I've disagreed with several mods publicly and privately and sometimes VERY persistently and nothing has EVER happened to me. I've gotten ZERO flak so I have no idea what you're talking about.
You've been given pretty much free reign to complain here all day and night and you're still here so nobody has tried to shut you up.

Why not simply outline your ON TOPIC questions for the OP again so we all can review them and maybe the OP will answer the, ON TOPIC questions.

Well done on figuring it out after a few years as a mod!! oh dear!!
this site is run by the thing you all think your fighting against. isnt it always the way!!
come on , remember your training.... what would mulder do

This is very sad, ATS has gone down in my opinion. After reading the OP I was very interested in this subject and wanted to read more and maybe contribute.

Is there a conspiracy against ATS, has this very thread been under attack?

It certainly seems that way to me, pages and pages of flaming over what I consider to be a side issue with the OP effectively neuters this whole thread.

Earlier in the thread motivation was mentioned, what is the motivation of these people who continue to flame here, even after another thread was started specifically to address their concerns?

Is it just that they are stubborn minded and want to see this through, or do they have an ulterior motive? Are they fighting to derail and destroy this thread, trying to suppress the message of the internet under assault from organised teams, with an agenda?

Focussing on the topic of censorship seems an ideal way to do this, as it is incredibly difficult for the mods to deal with this without seeming like tyrants.

To these people I ask, what is your agenda here?

I don’t post often, but I have been lurking around here for a long time and things have certainly changed a lot, I don’t know if this is a good thing or not. I don’t get the same warm feeling from visiting here anymore.

Maybe it’s just me, I know a lot of conspiracy theories now.

Maybe its growing pains, there are many more idiotic posts here now and many more furious debunkers.

Maybe it’s because ATS is under attack, deeply embedded cointelpro and other members with an unseen agenda. Many people and organisations would like to see ATS fall.

My guess is that it is probably a combination of these.

I do still hold the mods in high regard, they do work hard to maintain the neutrality of the site, even if they were feeding the trolls here a little in my opinion, maybe they have ulterior motives here and were happy assist in the killing of the original concept of this thread?

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

 

OFFICIAL NOTICE

 

The issue of free expression on ATS has run an unusual course on this thread that initially had nothing to do with that particular topic.

From this point forward, those wishing to discuss their options of the "freedom of speech" (or lack thereof) on ATS should do so in this thread: Freedom Of Speech, ATS, and Ending The Eternal September

Any contributions to this thread on the issue of freedom of speech as it specifically applies to the policies of ATS will be removed.

Thank you.

No, thank YOU sir. I for one, found it to be utterly tiresome and rather self-indulgent of those perpetrating the rather intentional derailment of this thread. This thread was never about freedom of speech, it got there (as it usually does) through the efforts of one individual.

As for the original topic, I do see exactly what Nef was saying, and I think it is BOTH concerted, and yet, individualized. I have no doubts that there are groups of people that deliberately go out of their way to 'support' eachother in topic derailment and other such base efforts. As well as the single entity who simply seems to glean a certain satisfaction in inserting chaos into a thread, or who takes perverse pleasure in the intentional verbal abuse of total strangers in an anonymous forum. I tend to not reply to threads that contain such things, simply because I don't want to be drawn in. It is baiting, when it all boils down. There can be no flames of war if there are no participants after all.

Chrono

I know from personal experience that authorities can and do target and view and review even the most piddlingly small of websites. I worked in an environment where I saw first hand examples of this happening. If anyone suggests or thinks that ATS is too insignificant to get noticed than that is naive. Again, we have seen 'topic creep' where the main thrust of the discussion CoIntelPro has been distracted to a debate regarding the perceptionof Freedom OfS peech. ATS is targeted to Cointelpro and that is where we should be fighting and counteracting a common theme, not amongst each other.

Originally posted by jfj123
...Just for the record, they don't need to set up a website like this to collect IP addresses. The government "snifs" the entire internet for keywords and phrases , flags them with IP addresses for analysis. So putting up a single site where only a small percentage of the total internet populace goes, is to inefficient. ...

That is similar to stating it is inefficient to infiltrate of group to learn more about their plans or methods of operations.

Monitoring traffic specifically to and from a site for analysis would be more efficient than just looking for keywords randomly from traffic everywhere if there are certain topics of interest. The hit count most likely would be higher. I bet both methods are used. Why look in the oceans a for certain of tree when it would be most likely found in a forest.

Just because they can doesn't mean it is the preferred method.

Hello Neformore
Thanks for your insight but I must respectfully disagree with you.

I don't believe there is a conspiracy against ATS. Most of us see ATS as the place where they can vent their anger and frustation to today's world. I don't think there is a noticable underground movement to push an agenda (drugs, zionism or else) but people like to make their feelings public on every issues and support others who think the same.

I find it unfortunate that a site which claims to be alternative must remain politically correct. I am not saying we should remove the terms of use but we need to remain open to the fact that we all have different views and we must share all those views the best we can, and not suppress them.

We need to hear what bigots have to say, because they are part of our society. If we want a clearer picture, we can aleniate a group because it doesn't look good. In the end, we are all Humans (read imperfect) that is why you have this job of moderator, innit?
We should at least try to understand the how and why of our behaviour no matter how uncomfortable it may be, without trying to suppress voices (that are not the work of trolls and propaganda agents).

On the issues of drugs I was a bit disappointed. Drugs, whether we like it or not, are part of the alternative subject. Some people use substances to reach altered states of consciousness, that may be illegal in some countries but ATS being a world wide portal, it doesnt make sense to shut them off. I am against unintelligent promotion of hard drugs but I am all for the studies on relations between drugs and the paranormal.

If someone claims to have cheated a bank or stole something in a store, would he be banned for sharing his experience?

Having said that I understand ATS' approach and how its trying to maintain a professional and politically correct image. However I believe the conspiracies lies more behind ATS than its users.




We have nothing to gain other than knowledge by posting here, but who knows about the risks we run by making our views known to the public, corporates and government?

[edit on 2-3-2009 by TheOracle]

(response to original post) I think it's just that ATS's size makes it a target for certain groups to push their agendas even momentarily, on a large audience. Not a conspiracy per se, as often, they are quite overt about it...

All I know is my posts that have come under the anonymous setting have yet to appear. Even though I am registered I didnt have my password etc on hand at the time so I used anonymous.
I find that ....intriging considering its happened more than once, and there was nothing profane or even negative in my comments as far as I can tell. Perhaps the mods would like to indicate why this happens or is it just a moment to moment personal discretion - if so - very worrying. If its for other reasons - even more troubling.

Anon posts are only activated for viewing after a mod sees it and then clicks to show it (there are a ton of these, so many get missed, especially in a thread that racks up numerous pages in just a few days)...If you registered, there is an option if you forgot your password. By posting under a registered username, the issue is no longer a problem.

reply to post by roadgravel

That is similar to stating it is inefficient to infiltrate of group to learn more about their plans or methods of operations.

ATS is not a group with plans and methods

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by roadgravel

 

That is similar to stating it is inefficient to infiltrate of group to learn more about their plans or methods of operations.

ATS is not a group with plans and methods

That was an example about efficiency. Second, how would you know positively about your point and ATS.

Actually in a sense it is, a group of members, the plan is the stated mission of the site and the operation is the T&C.

Originally posted by TheOracle
We need to hear what bigots have to say, because they are part of our society.

Actually, we do allow bigots and racists and other misguided souls to post on ATS as much as they please. There are countless threads that demonstrate our ability to fully support free expression in some very unsavory areas. Where we encounter problems (as mentioned in the opening post) is when people (not just racists) habitually post in ways that conflict with the core requirements of civility and decorum defined by our terms and conditions.

As supporters of free expression, our constant challenge is to not just tolerate abhorrent ideas, but embrace their expression as the true test of our ability to be stewards of free expression.

However, all too often, those with extreme ideas in certain areas (such as race, religion, 9/11 conspiracies, etc.) find it difficult to contribute to ATS in a civil manner. That's when they counter problems, and it has nothing to do with their chosen topics.

If we truly believe our most-treasured topics to be of significant importance, than we owe it to those topics to make our best case with our most compelling verbiage in our most convincing demeanor that can fit within the every day social graces we use to get by at work, school, the grocery store, and everywhere else. Those who do not, reveal that their topics are not as important as the attitude they portray... then we must examine the motivations that inspire such an attitude... and we end up with opening posts like we see in this thread.