Schoolgirl, 15, makes small fortune as prostitute

Also, you have a problem with young people being sexually orientated and the loss of morals etc, but you are perfectly fine with jailing a minor girl with self esteem issues.

Sick.

All I can say is

Nice. Niiiice.

More money than I make

Originally posted by enigmania
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

So the products of this cultural phenomenon should be punished with jailtime?

Who has setup this culture?

The 15 year old girl?

Yep, she's to blame, jail her!

Where were the parents at?

[edit on 28/2/09 by enigmania]

Well, if the product of a wide-ranging cultural phenomenon breaks existing laws, then why not? Part of the point that I was trying to make in my last post was that - based on what's been reported so far - there's no real extenuating circumstances here. There's nothing that's been reported about the girl that suggests there's something special or unique about her background to take into consideration. If the girl had been pushed into it by someone else then yes, I'd have some sympathy.

If this was about shoplifting, burglary or drug-pushing (arguably also connected to wider-ranging influences and phenomena) would this be any different? Would people have an issue then with authorities taking the money? I find it really peculiar that people, because prostitution is the issue, it's somehow different and that the girl must be a victim here.

reply to post by Merriman Weir

Well, if the product of a wide-ranging cultural phenomenon breaks existing laws, then why not?

If it's about obiding the law, then why your rant about cultural downfall? Why not just say she broke the law.

There's nothing that's been reported about the girl that suggests there's something special or unique about her background to take into consideration.

The fact that she is fifteen and selling her body, tells me she has self esteem issues, and her parents probably aren't paying much attention to her.

Also, she's a minor. She hurt nobody (but herself). How can you seriously consider jailing a 15 year old girl that hasn't really done anything wrong?

If this was about shoplifting, burglary or drug-pushing (arguably also connected to wider-ranging influences and phenomena) would this be any different? Would people have an issue then with authorities taking the money?

She gave her body and soul for that money, it's hers.

She wasn't pushing illegal substances that destroy people, she wasn't stealing, she hurt nobody.

The fact that you can't see the difference is telling.

Originally posted by enigmania
Also, you have a problem with young people being sexually orientated and the loss of morals etc, but you are perfectly fine with jailing a minor girl with self esteem issues.

Sick.

The only reason I have issues with "young people being sexually orientated" is because it becomes a moral and philosophical minefield. If we allow society to sexualise people earlier and earlier, which is really what I have a problem with, not what you're suggesting, then it comes hand-in-hand with all different kinds of issues.

You think this girl has self-esteem issues? I'm inclined to think that those self-esteem issues are all related to the things I mentioned earlier. Body image-related issues are based on what society decides is 'sexy' and we're exposing people at increasingly younger ages to the expectations that come with this.

reply to post by Merriman Weir

The only reason I have issues with "young people being sexually orientated" is because it becomes a moral and philosophical minefield. If we allow society to sexualise people earlier and earlier, which is really what I have a problem with, not what you're suggesting, then it comes hand-in-hand with all different kinds of issues.

So if you are that concerned, wouldn't it be logical to adress those responsible for this sexualisation instead of jailing 15 year old girls that are a part of the phenomenon?

Jail the MTV bosses then .

I find it unbelievable that you are concerned with this trend of moral downfall, but when it comes to a 15 year old girl, you don't seem to be very compassionate.

Why be concerned in the first place if you don't seem to have any feelings for this individual girl's wellbeing?

The justice system F#^% her more than any one else by taking all of her hard earned money, in the States wouldn't they of just made her pay taxes.
Wonder how many of the cops that busted her were also clients.

I have got to be honest. I really don't know what to think of this story. There are so many many positives and negatives its hard to make a judgement.

The majority are so hung up on sex its scary but she is 15 so does she have the facalties to know what to do or not to do?

was going to say I hadn't heard anything about this and I live in the CBD in Newcastle Australia.... In all honesty though it wouldn't suprise me if we had a story appear in the local papers here about something like this as we have a large rate of young prostitues in a local areas known as 'Islington" and the 'Gateshead Gobblers'.... even to the extent that a local radio station used to do a morning 'Gateshead Gobblers' report for people on their way to work.....

hectic indeed......

The only reason I have issues with "young people being sexually orientated" is because it becomes a moral and philosophical minefield. If we allow society to sexualise people earlier and earlier, which is really what I have a problem with, not what you're suggesting, then it comes hand-in-hand with all different kinds of issues.

I was under the impression that puberty sexualizes people. This person could have had sex with people her own age, older, or younger; and if she did not accept money for the action then she would not have been breaking a law.

There are two factors to focus on here, either capitalism is wrong or the law is unjust. If she were living in a society minus capitalism there would be no financial motive for selling one's body. Of course you could barter for sex, but it would be a major hindrance to the trade of prostitution. There would be no need to outlaw prostitution because it would be so scarce.

Perhaps the law is unjust. A society is sending mixed signals when it promotes sexuality, freedom, and materialism yet prohibits individuals from participating in a harmless transaction to obtain said promoted ideals.

Who's responsible for this behavior, the 15 year old certainly, it is her body and she ought to be free to do with it as she pleases as a free individual.

Is it the customer? Yes, without a person willing to pay for sexual interaction there would be no prostitution.

Are the 15 year old's parent's responsible? They did create her through a sexual interaction and took it upon themselves to care for her while she was unable to care for herself, so they did play a part in forming her character. Is it society?

The media does promote sexuality to all people young and old alike, but would they not be sexual even without the influence of society?

I argue that they would, in a natural state human beings are sexual from the onset of puberty onwards to menopause/erectile dysfunction (I can't think of the male counterpart).

Does society hypersexualize people? I don't have enough information to answer this question.

Taking in the above arguments, I would hold that each individual is responsible for their own actions. The 15 year old may be young and thus naive and inexperienced, but many 15 year olds are more competent than many 30 year olds.

Was this action wrong? Why is there a law against prostitution and why is there a law that establishes an age of consent?

There is no justification for a law against prostitution. It is a victimless transaction as long as neither party is being coerced.

Is there a justification for the age of consent? Does something magical occur when someone becomes 16 or 18? The age is arbitrary and the law is based on social taboo. Some may say lifting this age of consent would lead to a slippery slope into pedophilia. Perhaps not. A person would not consent to sex until they have gone through puberty. Without consent, it is not prostitution, it is rape. Rape is immoral.


Does this follow? I'm against prostitution myself, I think sexuality is cheapened when such a practice exists. I would *not* forcefully stop somebody from practicing it however. I also believe that when an older person is sexually attracted to young people (16 and below) that it is a sign of a neurosis.

[edit on 1-3-2009 by wingman77]

Originally posted by enigmania
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

So if you are that concerned, wouldn't it be logical to adress those responsible for this sexualisation instead of jailing 15 year old girls that are a part of the phenomenon? Jail the MTV bosses then .

The laws as they stand mean that MTV bosses haven't broken any laws. Whatever I think of MTV bosses, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to gaol them.

I find it unbelievable that you are concerned with this trend of moral downfall, but when it comes to a 15 year old girl, you don't seem to be very compassionate.

Whereas what I find unbelievable is that somehow people are insistent that there must be some extenuating circumstances that made this girl a 'victim'. I'm not sure why exactly I should be compassionate. As far as the reporting goes, the girl doesn't seem to have a particularly 'damaged background and she did this of her own volition. If those two factors would have been different, then yes, I'd have a lot of compassion for the girl. As it stands, I'm not sure exactly what I'm supposed to be compassionate about.

Yes, I feel some sympathy/compassion/pity regarding the broader issue as I detest the demands and pressure that the media and various other industries place on people from various demographics but I'm not sure where the line is meant to start and stop. Take the pressure of materialism and status symbols. People, generally, are bombarded with the idea of 'must have' items, that somehow you're a failure or there's something wrong with you if you don't have a particular referent to a lifestyle - whether it's the latest in mobile phones, shoes, cars or whatever. Should I feel compassion for the thief who steals to engage with this too? Because they succumbed to some kind of status-lead pressure from society as a whole?

Also, I'm genuinely curious this one of those curious things where, because she's a young female, she must be a victim?

she has only been arreted and charged because of her age

www.sw5.info...

Prostitution - exchanging participation in sexual activities for money or other goods - has always been legal in the UK

so , whilst being a prostitute is legal - actually getting `clients` in many ways is not , Solicitation - or street walking is illegal , a kerb crawler is illegal , adverts near enough anywhere are illegal and being a pimp is illegal

but being paid for sex is not illegal.

Originally posted by wingman77
I was under the impression that puberty sexualizes people. This person could have had sex with people her own age, older, or younger; and if she did not accept money for the action then she would not have been breaking a law.

Well, technically, given that she was 15 and the age of consent in England is 16, then there are legal issues.

There are two factors to focus on here, either capitalism is wrong or the law is unjust. If she were living in a society minus capitalism there would be no financial motive for selling one's body. Of course you could barter for sex, but it would be a major hindrance to the trade of prostitution. There would be no need to outlaw prostitution because it would be so scarce.

Perhaps the law is unjust. A society is sending mixed signals when it promotes sexuality, freedom, and materialism yet prohibits individuals from participating in a harmless transaction to obtain said promoted ideals.

Who's responsible for this behavior, the 15 year old certainly, it is her body and she ought to be free to do with it as she pleases as a free individual.

Is it the customer? Yes, without a person willing to pay for sexual interaction there would be no prostitution.

Are the 15 year old's parent's responsible? They did create her through a sexual interaction and took it upon themselves to care for her while she was unable to care for herself, so they did play a part in forming her character. Is it society?

For me, the key to this is whether there are extenuating circumstances. There's a tone in this thread that somehow the girl must have issues or some specific, unique factors that contribute to what's happened - perhaps bad parenting, out-and-out abuse or whatever. Based on what's reported - and that's all we're should be commenting on, or else it's speculation - there's no real reason to believe that there is a 'broken background'. At worse, she seems to be under the same kinds of pressure most 15-year-old girls and boys are under.

I think the part society plays is pretty awful to be honest. To quote an album from a popular beat combo from around 15 years ago, 'modern life is rubbish'.

The media does promote sexuality to all people young and old alike, but would they not be sexual even without the influence of society?

I argue that they would, in a natural state human beings are sexual from the onset of puberty onwards to menopause/erectile dysfunction (I can't think of the male counterpart).

Yes, of course they would. How could they not be? We wouldn't be here as a species if that wasn't the case given that procreation existed before mass-communication of any sort.

However, the point is how sexualised and how would that sexuality be expressed? I think it's misleading to think that puberty is the real or perhaps only catalyst in this. Puberty is, in a sense 'neutral' in that it awakens or creates a sexuality, but it's the pressure of culture that shapes and determines how that eventually manifests. Arguably, you could say that, thanks to mass-media, those pressures are actually now in place and being felt before the natural/neutral pressure of puberty.

Taking in the above arguments, I would hold that each individual is responsible for their own actions. The 15 year old may be young and thus naive and inexperienced, but many 15 year olds are more competent than many 30 year olds.

Perhaps, but arguments regarding individual responsibility and why do we need laws are perhaps so big and broad as to be go far beyond what this thread is about.

Was this action wrong? Why is there a law against prostitution and why is there a law that establishes an age of consent?

Well, the fact is there are laws regarding prostitution and the age of consent and neither of us can do anything about it.

Does this follow? I'm against prostitution myself, I think sexuality is cheapened when such a practice exists. I would forcefully stop somebody from practicing it however.

I'm in two minds on this. I agree with you point about 'cheapening' but I also appreciate any points about it being up to the individual what they do with their body. Also, the fact that whether I like it or not, there's also legal aspects to take into consideration.

I also believe that when an older person is sexually attracted to young people (16 and below) that it is a sign of a neurosis.

I don't think it's a simple as that. As as been suggested elsewhere on this thread, what's a 16-year-old meant to look like?

Personally, I'm not interested in sex without a proper relationship to go with it. One of the things I find most puzzling about under-age sex - again, from the personal perspective I've just mentioned - is that mentally someone that age has nothing to offer (me). No real shared frames of reference, perspectives, experience and so on.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


for prostitution - UK law is very specific - 18 and older - under 18 is a crime.

Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

for prostitution - UK law is very specific - 18 and older - under 18 is a crime.

Yes, I know. I don't understand why you're replying to that particular post. Much of that post was specifically about the age of consent and where I did mention prostitution I did say there were legal issues.

... whenever I hear the word prostitution ... then something else comes to my mind ... legal prostitution, legal slavery work, legal human trade ... oh no ... I am sorry, there is no such a thing ...

... but how do you call it when you are grown up and old enough to work for temporary agencies, working 45 hours and more per months and for virtually no money?

Sooner or later ... we all become or risk to be a ..., don't you think so?

Greetings

PS: ------------------ I stated my - O P I N I O N - ------------------------

[edit on 1-3-2009 by TheWriter]

There are quite a few men on here who do their best to try and make a 15 year old into an adult. And who apparently want to normalize their fantasies by touting "their is no crime here" and "well teens are different now" pile of horse poop.

You guys are gross, old, perverts.

Originally posted by Aeons
There are quite a few men on here who do their best to try and make a 15 year old into an adult. And who apparently want to normalize their fantasies by touting "their is no crime here" and "well teens are different now" pile of horse poop.

You guys are gross, old, perverts.

But that's always the case Aeons, not only in a forum. The entire world is messed up. Conscience, moral, etc. has virtually gone down the gutter.

Greetings

reply to post by Merriman Weir


it was for clarification - where the age of consent maybe be 16 in the UK , the law regarding prostitution is very clear and says 18

we do live in a sick sad world , if there is a god he must look upon us and be so ashame , damn we miss use the freedom of choice he gave us ,