I found the problem of 9/11 unbelievers !

reply to post by Taxi-Driver


One has to remember that Saddam used to be our lapdog. He only turned on us when we decided to stab him in the back and give weapons to his enemy. (Iran Contra Affair)

One has to wonder what we would do if our allies went and sent weapons to our enemy. What if Israel started selling North Korea nukes or other western weapons?

C-JEAN... i think you nailed it.

All i can add or express in a different light, is that the scope of information taken in by either side is determined by a fundamental difference in each party's perspective. Those who trust/believe in their government take the official story as a fundamentalist receives the bible. Those who distrust/question their government approach the official story from multiple angles/point-of-views, much like an agnostic/atheist will consider all bibles of the world as well as philosophers and scientists in their assessment/search for the Truth.

One group goes out of their way to support the OS by means of parroting and ignoring data that resides outside of the lines drawn by the government and their embraced sycophants. Where as the other group considers all data available in determining what most likely happened. You could think of this as blinds versus panoramic view.

In sum, it is clear that one group makes better investigators for this crime scene, they are willing and able to question everything and everyone. The other group has crippled objectivity due in large part to their blind allegiance to one narrow spoon-feed source/reference of data.


[edit on 12-3-2009 by The All Seeing I]

I think it was holograms. Maybe the towers are still there!

Like that movie "The Shadow" with Alec Baldwin where Ghengis Khans nephew uses telepathy to hide a skyscraper in plain sight and convince the whole city it was demolished.

I thought that movie was illuminati propaganda until 9/11 when I realized it was all part of the slow reveal that the "Powers That Be" trickle out in hollywood films.

I hear by summer blockbuster season 2012 we will all finally know the truth about 9/11. Doesn't matter though, the "nice" people won't believe it because only truthers can comprehend evil.

Also, my uncle was an NY firefighter who died in those attacks. I guess he is in on it too. He probably turned on the hologram generator.

reply to post by C-JEAN


You live in a very sad world. your willing to believe that thousands of people went along with blowing up the wtc and not one of them tried to stop the plot. Please certain parts of the story may be up for debate. I know i shouldnt post here made this mistake another time but i am truly tired of the wasted effort being applied to the wtc why not put all that effort to something use full like changing the government you think did this?

reply to post by dragonridr


We have a plutocracy parading around as a democracy, who hoodwinked the majority of the populous. The only way to set this record straight is for us to be collectively hip to the lie(s) and the liar(s). What you are asking c-jean to do is what you see before you. The only efficient and effective way to change this government is to wake up it's citizenship.

In other words, we need less 'dragon riders' and more 'dragon slayers'.

[edit on 12-3-2009 by The All Seeing I]

Originally posted by Arsenis

Originally posted by Taxi-Driver
it was terrorists that carried out the attacks of 9/11. Mostly Saudi, one Egyptian, one Lebanese, one UAE.

And you know this how? how are you so sure?

Police investigations spanning MANY departments, MANY states, MANY nations. Guess they were all in on it too.

Oh thats !! right !! the phony evidence, cool man, let me know when we can hang out, I'll give you monopoly money in exchange of gold, with me you dont have to send it on a little bag as advertised on TV.

Why T..F.. would anyone need to produce "phoney" evidence? SERIOUSLY ..to invade Afghanistan? Don't make me laugh. They had more sanctions against their outlaw regime than Edi Amin, Noriega, and Quadafi combined.

To pass the ~gasp~ Patriot Act? While I never like rushed legislation I feel our liberties are more at risk now than anything an agency networking act could produce.

Three TRAINED and LICENCED Pilots from the Hamburg cell in Germany.
One TRAINED and LICENCED Commercial pilot from Saudi Arabia.

one per plane, you would think they would have some extra ones just incase one of them gets cought or something goes wrong, but i guess in their mind achieved perfection even though a training school they sucked.

They had 4 extras in three planes and three extras in one... If something goes wrong they crash into the ground (still a enormous catastrophy)

Hani Hanjour was a licenced COMMERCIAL Pilot that does NOT equal suck.
Atta and Al Sherhi were licenced multi engine pilots.. Not suck.. NONE of the above could speak fluent English, this was their major holdback...NOT their basic knowlege of flying, or aviation skills.

You can mindlessly nod about at cherrypicked quotes if you like.. but that would be an indictment on your ability to dicern information and draw resonable conclusions.

BTW Jarrad was only licenced on a single engine plane and had only had one solo flight...so he was teh suck..AND he crashed.

Additional hijackers that trained in Al Queda camps in Taliban controlled Afghanistan.

Oh thats right Al-Queda camps, who said this? oh the same people that confiscated so many surveillance video tapes at the pentagon and gas station and who knows where else but released only 2 of the crappiest views.

RED HERRING.... But I will give you a pass cause you cannot help it.

Watch THIS:
vids.myspace.com...

I know you won't, cause if you did your brainwashed head would asplode.

I know this sounds like the "standard answer" but that is where ALL the evidence leads.

PHONY EVINDENCE!

Why? Just to cover the cover-up with an infinite amout of cover-ups encompanssing everyone in the world , except for a few meddling kids and their talking dog?

don't forget to name it right, a whole plane melts but US passports are indestructible.

Ask yourself where and when were the "personal effects" found ?.. And were the only ones found belongings of the hijackers?

I guess this was a Hijackers seat cusion found on the streets of NYC:


I suppose this was a hHijackers life vest found in NYC:


I guess this landing gear "forgot" to melt:



Open mind? No someone is keeping your mind closed with BAD info..sorry.

But so are you, we just like a to follow a different one, not one that will rape you and then ask you to cuddle, enjoy your patriot act, I hate it.

Yeah, you have to believe that... or that I am just a shill/ government agent.. It is where it always goes..heh, as I said above, now THAT's irony..

Patriot act.. I really cannot tell if I hate it or not. #e, I just bought an armory.. I go where I please, do what I please.. I don't break the law so I have nothing to really be afraid of from that act. Now socialized banking systems, Healthcare, and gun bans... THAT is something that truly scares the crap outta me... but has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with 9/11 as the Dem's have been pushing these types of agendas for decades.

This 9/11 stuff is fool's gold.... put that in your bag and smoke it .

I used to believe in the OS, but I woke up, I also did years of research into 911 as a hobby and to just get to the truth. There are so many layers, and obstacles, to uncover to get to the truth of 911. More deceptions have been deliberately planted to steer people away from the truth even on ATS at times. There have been plenty of evidences that prove the government is covering up most if not all of 911. The government will not tell us the truth as of what really happened on 911. The government refuses to talk about it, they refuse to investigate it, and everyone that has tried to investigate 911 in the government has been stonewalled. So what is the government hiding, besides the truth? This really amasses me, that the biggest terror attack, on American soil on a scale of unbelievably portion, billions of dollars in businesses destroyed millions of dollars of property destroyed and thousands of people where killed, and are still dieing from that day, and this so call government slaps us in the faces, by telling us, basically it is none of our business, and how dare you ask questions about it, we the government told you what happened though our controlled media, we would never lie to you, forget about the (WMD) we didn’t expect to getting caught in that one. lol We wrote a book for you called the 911 Commission Report, you can read the book if you want more answers. We have shown you all, that we the government where not responsible for anything that happened on 911. We gave promotions, and pay raises, to all that where, to keep our citizens and our country safe, we also have asked you all not to believe in conspiracy theories regarding 911, because of all of our secrecy.

We told you Americans, that OBL orchestrated and did 911, and infiltrated our billion dollars defense system, We told you all how OBL was able to defeat our billion dollar air defenses system, NORAD, and how his highjackers where able to fly the hijacked air plans around for an hour without being stop, or shot down, OBL was a very powerful man he held all the card that day. We didn’t know that terrorists would ever highjack American airplanes, we just did know. We had no idea, that someone would fly an airplane in the WTC, we just didn’t know that could possibly happen, who would have ever suspected it, not us said the government.

We told you how the WTC came down, we paid NIST to tell you how, just read their reports, it clearly states that firer alone brought the buildings down( with such speed) but who would have ever imagine an airplane bringing down, two of the tallest buildings in the world, no one said the government.

If you read NIST on how WTC 7 came down it clearly tells you that some firers in the building got so hot, that is caused the steel brackets on the floor Joyce, to expand and pull away from a single support column, which then caused every single floor too simultaneously to collapses, faster than free fall, into dust. So, stop asking questions about the pent house on the roof that did not catch on firer, and had no real connections to the building support column but fell down first.

NIST, has made it very clears as to why they did not look into demolition being used, they told you, that there were no eye witness who saw any explosions, or heard any explosions. So please ignore those firemen, and police officers, and fist responders, and medics, who said they saw and heard explosions, come on now, we are your government and we do not lie, all those people that saw, and heard explosions, they are lying to you. These people do not like their jobs, and are looking for a reason to be fired, and want to throw away their pensions plans, and retirements, those that speak out against us your government, are traitors, and hate this country, so said the government.

We told you all, what happened to the Pentagon a Boeing 757 traveling at a high rate of speed swoop down, and leveled off and was able to knock over light poles without a hitch or knocking the plane off its balance and then swoop down to a lower flight level of 6 feet off the ground, still holding a speed of 500 knts, and breaking a world record of ground physics, especially entering ground effect at those speeds. Any slight movement will put you off 50 feet very quickly. Im sure we all would agree.
So, who pulled off this stunt?
Hani Hanjour. Reported to have 600TT and a Commercial Certificate, Hani tried to get checked out in a 172 a few weeks prior at Freeway Airport in MD. Two seperate CFI's took Hani up to check him out. Baxter and Conner found that Hani had trouble controlling and landing a cessna 172 at 65 knots. Bernard, the Chief CFI, refused to rent him the cessna 172. How anyone could not control a 172 at 600TT and a Commercial is beyond me. Flight Schools keep going till you "get it" if you are a bit rusty, and then we will rent you the plane. They are in business to make money after all. .right? The Chief CFI basically refused any further lessons and basically told him to get lost. All this can be confirmed through google searches.

So, to sum up. Hani Hanjour, took a 757, with zero time in type, did the maneuver described above, a 400, to 500 knot 330 degree sprialing dive at 2500 fpm, only gaining 30 knots, then 30 knots more descending from 2200 feet at full power, with a very steady hand as to not overshoot or hit the lawn, inside ground effect, at 460 knots impact speed, but was refused to rent a cessna 172 cause he couldnt land it at 65 knots? C'mon...
One more thing I had forgot to add, the plane was able to jump over those giant spools of cable with out disturbing them, and still was able to crash the plane at ground level without disturbing the ground. Lol
Lets not even talk about the little impact hole that this large plane left, with little, to nothing for airplane wreckage.

We told you what happened at Shanksville, PA to United flight 93. We gave you the NTSB reports and that’s says it all.
NTSB documents does not support, and in some instances factually contradicts, the official government position that United Airlines Flight 93 created the impact crater as reported, in Somerset County, PA on the morning of September 11, 2001 .According to the US Govt, United Airlines Flight 93 approached Somerset County from the North-Northwest at a high altitude on the morning of September 11, 2001 . However, many witnesses contradict altitude as well as approach path. Also according to reports, and as the impact crater suggests, United Airlines Flight 93 impacted terrain at an almost vertical 90 degree angle, while the Flight Data Recorder shows a 35 degree angle with up-sloping terrain, further reducing impact angle.
The information provided by the US Government does not support reports of United Airlines Flight 93 approach, impact angles, and lack of jet fuel at Somerset Country, PA. So for what ever it is worth the plane crashed, not really it was shot down, no, just kidding, so stop asking question we told you all enough.
No, there is no conspiracy into 911, we just can’t keep our lies straight that’s all.

IMHO, the combined evidences are more than overwhelming, but the on image that stands out without any expert conclusions is the woman grasping a column int the hole of the trade center, where the heat was purportedly so intensely hot, it caused catostrophic failure and building collapse and symetrically into the building foot print.

A woman, alive grasping a column...she should have been incinerated, right?

all the other conclusiions are very compelling, although the steel was scurried of shore in an expeditious fasion formerly unknown for government, who's wheels turn so slowly.

I don't have a link right this moment, but check youtube and it's there.

to mention the multitude of other analysis and studies would be overkill. In a court of law, it would be interesting to get some testimont under oath from a few persons...

More revisionist history from taxi driver. Here's the real reason why we're in Iraq.

www.washingtonpost.com...

People like taxi driver take lessons from ari flischer who recently said 911 didn't happen on bush's watch. You people are crazy, just bat# insane.

Originally posted by radio_for_peace
More revisionist history from taxi driver. Here's the real reason why we're in Iraq.

www.washingtonpost.com...

People like taxi driver take lessons from ari flischer who recently said 911 didn't happen on bush's watch. You people are crazy, just bat# insane.

Revisonist history? Geezus! There were a ton of reasons we are in Iraq. From bad intel, to the fact that Saddam was basically on WORLD probation for aggression and atrocities to his own people that to those of surrounding nations. Bottom line, the US couldn't passively stand by and watch the Iraqi army plow through Saudi Arabia and threaten the worlds oil supply. When King Fayd asked the US for help it was in both of our interests to oblige. Fundamentalist such as OBL and many others were outraged. Once the Iraqi threat was gone, so were our troops stationed in Saudi Arabia, thus diplomatically diffusing a source of rage possesed by the extremists.

That is not revisionist hisory, unless you want to omit 20+ years of turmoil in the region almost all of which came directly from Bagdad.

We told you Americans, that OBL orchestrated and did 911, and infiltrated our billion dollars defense system, We told you all how OBL was able to defeat our billion dollar air defenses system, NORAD, and how his highjackers where able to fly the hijacked air plans around for an hour without being stop, or shot down,

Not quite what happened, but you will never accept the truth anyway.

We told you how the WTC came down, we paid NIST to tell you how, just read their reports, it clearly states that firer alone brought the buildings down( with such speed) but who would have ever imagine an airplane bringing down, two of the tallest buildings in the world, no one said the government.

Again, not quite, and again, you wont ever accept the fact that ANY investigation into the collapses is going to be an educated GUESS.

If you read NIST on how WTC 7 came down it clearly tells you that some firers in the building got so hot, that is caused the steel brackets on the floor Joyce, to expand and pull away from a single support column, which then caused every single floor too simultaneously to collapses, faster than free fall, into dust. So, stop asking questions about the pent house on the roof that did not catch on firer, and had no real connections to the building support column but fell down first.

No, please to ask more questions about the penthouse. The penthouse is the best indication of an internal support failure prior to the buildings collapse.

please ignore those firemen, and police officers, and fist responders, and medics, who said they saw and heard explosions,

No, they werent ignored. Explosions, do not indicate explosives, any fireman who has responded to a building fire like we saw on 9/11 knows that.

Hani Hanjour. Reported to have 600TT and a Commercial Certificate, Hani tried to get checked out in a 172 a few weeks prior at Freeway Airport in MD. Two seperate CFI's took Hani up to check him out. Baxter and Conner found that Hani had trouble controlling and landing a cessna 172 at 65 knots. Bernard, the Chief CFI, refused to rent him the cessna 172. How anyone could not control a 172 at 600TT and a Commercial is beyond me

Oh really?

On his first certification flight a Cessna 172 was used. This is a single engine aircraft. Mr. Shalev sat next to.Hanjour and had him fly north from the Gaithersburg airport away from Washington, D.C. Mr. Shalev noticed that Hanjour used a landmark or terrain recognition system for navigation and did not use the ''VOR'' or Very High Frequency (VHF) Omni Directional Rangefinder instruments. Mr. Shalev stated that he considered this unusual because basic ainnanship requires knowledge of the operation of the VOR. Mr. Shalev selected Clearview airport in northern Maryland as their designation. The airport is located near Westminster, Maryland. Mr. Shalev said that the runway is small at Clearview and difficult to land. Hanjour landed at the airport without any difficulty. Mr. Shalev stated that based on his observations, Hanjour was a "good" pilot. Mr. Shalev thought that Hanjour may have received training from a military pilot because of his use of terrain recognition for navigation. Hanjour told Mr. Shalev that he (Hanjour) had most recently trained in Florida as a pilot

After the certification flight, Mr. Shalev approved Hanjour for the rental of the Cessna 172 from Congressional Air Charters. Mr. Shalev said that Hanjour had his own flight bag, headset and aviator's chart for the Washington, D.C. area airspace. On 08/26/2001, Hanjour returned to Congressional Air Charters and rented an aircraft. Hanjour came in and spoke briefly with Mr. Shalev. The conversation related to the air corridor between Reagan National Airport and Dulles International Airport. The airspace is restricted because of heavy commercial airline traffic. Mr. Shalev said that the Cessna 172 that Hanjour would be flying is not pressurized and that would restrict the altitude. Generally, the air controllers allow small aircraft to fly to an altitude of 5000 feet

So, he had a commercial pilots license AND an instructor who had no problems renting an aircraft to him, that definitely sounds like he is a terrible pilot.....not to mention during the cert flight, Hani used landmark navigation (gee I wonder why that would come in handy)

Originally posted by Lanimilbus
reply to post by Taxi-Driver

 

Do me a favor Driver,
Do a google video search for " Zeitgeist Remastered " . I'm sure some of the people around here have seen it already

, but I just recently watched. There is a lot of good info there.

Ya and least one of them couldn't even control a small prop plane. HANI

But yes - they could fly a jumbo jet

[edit on 14-3-2009 by mental modulator]

Originally posted by Swampfox46_1999

We told you Americans, that OBL orchestrated and did 911, and infiltrated our billion dollars defense system, We told you all how OBL was able to defeat our billion dollar air defenses system, NORAD, and how his highjackers where able to fly the hijacked air plans around for an hour without being stop, or shot down,

Not quite what happened, but you will never accept the truth anyway.

Well please - refute the paragraph statement by statement...

Are you suggesting the plane did not fly around for the better part of an hour?


Are you saying our defense capabilities were a success?

What is the truth???

Originally posted by mental modulator

Are you saying our defense capabilities were a success?

What is the truth???

The truth is that our defenses were hamstrung long before 9/11, and that fact was taken advantage of. During the cold war there were dozens of fighters armed, sitting on alert ready to launch within a few minutes. Prior to 9/11 that was cut down to a maximum of 21 and a low of 14. Those fighters were spread all around the country, but mostly in the southern areas to watch for drug smugglers.

Contrary to what many truther websites want you to believe NONE of those fighters were involved in exercises on that day. The alert fighters never fly unless it's a real scramble. Non-alert fighters can take up to 2 hours to be fully armed from a cold start, and anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour to get airborne with a minimum loadout.

Our defenses are going to be even more hurt in the coming years due to everyone concentrating on fighting the wars overseas. There are 18 bases currently charged with defending the US, mostly Air National Guard. By 2015 between 12 and 16 of them will have to shut down fighter operations due to their aircraft being at the end of their flyable life.

Our defenses failed horribly on 9/11, but it wasn't due to any stand down, it was due to politicians cutting their budget so badly that there just weren't any fighters available to intercept them in time. The nearest bases to Washington and New York that had alert fighters available was Langley AFB in Virginia, and Otis AFB in Cape Cod. The nearest base after that was either Tyndall AFB or Homestead AFB in Florida. Andrews AFB stood down from the alert mission in the late 1990s and had nothing available.

Originally posted by mental modulator

Originally posted by Lanimilbus
reply to post by Taxi-Driver

 

Do me a favor Driver,
Do a google video search for " Zeitgeist Remastered " . I'm sure some of the people around here have seen it already

, but I just recently watched. There is a lot of good info there.

Ya and least one of them couldn't even control a small prop plane. HANI

But yes - they could fly a jumbo jet

[edit on 14-3-2009 by mental modulator]

The times when Hani was in control of the plane were reported as "no real pilot would do that" like the spiral before the dive, the plane is capable of doing it but you would never do it except in extreme cicumstances. Did you know that flying a comercial airliner is actually easier than a small craft due to computer cnotrolls. there are even automated landing sequences that can be started to help a pilot land in rought weather.

He did not take off he did not land, he flew and to do that is pretty simple, they hard parts are takeoff and landing, but again there is the helpfull blind auto pilot that can help do that for you.

reply to post by whaaa
If Iraq is "where all the oil is," why aren't the wells and pipelines flowing? Why are they at less than 50% of pre-2003 production levels?

Why are we leaving?

deny ignorance.

go 'horns

jw

Originally posted by C-JEAN
For those who did not like our first post's "ground zero" photo?
here are more photos, where we see the obvious 45 degree cuts on columns:

911research.wtc7.net...
45* cuts 10 to 20 feet above ground !

911research.wtc7.net...
3 photos down.

www.amny.com...
Photo #6.
I guess the rescuers did not know they should have HIDDEN this one ? B-)

old.911digitalarchive.org...
2 or 3 of them.

The date is shown on some of them, but is not mandatory.
Nobody cuts steel at 45 degrees ! It makes the cut 1.4 times longer !

All found with:
us2.ixquick.com...
My key-words = ["ground zero" photos ]

EDIT to fix links.

Blue skies.

[edit on 2009/3/1 by C-JEAN]

QFT

I can't scientifically prove every aspect of the conspiracy...

but science does tell us that the official story is physically impossible.

[edit on 14-3-2009 by Jezus]

"It is this glaring deficiency in critical thinking and research skills that is the most troubling revelation of this whole topic."

I totally agree - you just described the 911 Commission with that statement.

"We had no idea, that someone would fly an airplane in the WTC, we just didn’t know that could possibly happen, who would have ever suspected it, not us said the government."

Only those who designed the WTC to survive an impact with a 707 airliner could have suspected such a thing. Go figure...

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by whaaa

 

If Iraq is "where all the oil is," why aren't the wells and pipelines flowing? Why are they at less than 50% of pre-2003 production levels?

Why are we leaving?

deny ignorance.

Yes deny ignorance indeed. Perhaps this might help you. It's called google. It's on the internet [www]. Never mind I'll do it for you.

usgovinfo.about.com...
www.iraqoilreport.com...
www.energyinvestmentstrategies.com...

one more

news.bbc.co.uk...

and as for the main topic.....when the pentagon/feds release the tapes of the plane hitting the pentagon, that they confiscated; perhaps then, I might believe the official story.

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by C-JEAN
For those who did not like our first post's "ground zero" photo?
here are more photos, where we see the obvious 45 degree cuts on columns:

911research.wtc7.net...
45* cuts 10 to 20 feet above ground !

911research.wtc7.net...
3 photos down.

www.amny.com...
Photo #6.
I guess the rescuers did not know they should have HIDDEN this one ? B-)

old.911digitalarchive.org...
2 or 3 of them.

The date is shown on some of them, but is not mandatory.
Nobody cuts steel at 45 degrees ! It makes the cut 1.4 times longer !

All found with:
us2.ixquick.com...
My key-words = ["ground zero" photos ]

EDIT to fix links.

Blue skies.

[edit on 2009/3/1 by C-JEAN]

QFT

I can't scientifically prove every aspect of the conspiracy...

but science does tell us that the official story is physically impossible.

[edit on 14-3-2009 by Jezus]

You obviously missed all of the posts showing why you cut like that and how.

next time you go out and cut a tree please cut horizontal to the ground.

Look up thermal Lance and Plasm Torch, then by all means please read what is required to get a building ready for controlled demo

you can choose a ton of companies that do it and check their work logs. by the time they are ready to demolished they would not be able to be occupied as they are structuraly unsound.

But please over look Physics, Construction Engineering, Explosives Science, everything.

You see what you want to see. Not what is there.