Marine Charged with Threatening Obama

reply to post by uaocteaou


That is the enlisted oath and I seem to have gotten the order messed up

This is the Officers oath.

www.history.army.mil...

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)

No where does it say about obeying the president, that is the army though.

But if you look at the oath, it has a semicolon after the defending against all enemy's foreign and domestic. Which signals that it is a separate clause, from the rest of the oath.

In other words the Constitution is above all else.

I think the main point though is that if he wants to earn respect from the soldiers he needs release his birth records, and school transcripts.

It wouldn't be that big of a deal, but the fact that he did live in Indonesia raises questions that need to be addressed. Honestly I think if he wouldn't have lived in Indonesia and lived in the US his whole life it would be a non-issue.

But he is practicing a double standard and our troops and people are not stupid.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

What utter malarque.... the only thing Obama needs for the respect of the troops is to hold the office of President.

I hope it’s not utter malarque…but my dearly departed Irish maternal grandmother would have smiled at hearing you use that word!

I would love to hope that if ever a true despot attained the Presidency, which in no way shape or form, am I suggesting President Obama is one, and that our brave men and women in uniform would act out of conscience to reject that person as their commander.

I can appreciate discipline and the military’s need for discipline but in truth not all are as disciplined as life or their code tasks them with.

Case in point, where you an officer when you served in the Navy? (My Dad was a World War II Navy Frogman by the way) If you weren’t in your post you admitted to fraternizing with officers! That would be a violation of military discipline and protocol too.

The point being is how many people do you know who follow the book 100% of the time. Once it becomes a selective judgment in any regard no matter how small or large it shows a willing propensity to question some things, even if they are deemed to be relatively insignificant.

This soldier is stupid without a doubt.

I can honestly say though if I were President I would want and look for ways to make my soldiers love me, because I am just the kind of guy who could truly get into being a despot and would want, and need and love for them to support me in my endeavor to become one!

I think what I am really driving at here is no, it’s not a perfect world no matter what the book says. What can President Obama actually do to increase stature in a way with the military that doesn’t violate or diminish the office he holds?

Lets help out the new guy on the block!

Well for one, I think that it really doesn't matter what the soldiers think. That's what the UCMJ is for. They are owned for their tenure, and there is no two ways about it. They can't even legally get a tattoo without risking being brought up on charges of defacing gov property.

Makes me wonder if he said what he said to get out of going to a war zone?

That sure would be one heck of a way to do it. I think it would be kind of easier just to lie and say you were gay?

At least the Secret Service wouldn't be checking on you everytime a President of the United States came to town for the rest of your life!

reply to post by HunkaHunka

Well for one, I think that it really doesn't matter what the soldiers think. That's what the UCMJ is for. They are owned for their tenure, and there is no two ways about it. They can't even legally get a tattoo without risking being brought up on charges of defacing gov property.

Wow! I sure don't regret not graduating high school now and making it past elligible service age.

I have always believed severe discipline was in the best interests of ensuring a group can perform cohesively in combat.

It sure would be great if human beings ever learned how to agree to disagree in ways that didn't require the attempt at a politically violent solution.

Thanks for going through all that on the Nation's behalf. We all owe you!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Yeah it's crazy in the military, and the young men and women in uniform very frequently forget that they lose all rights when they join up, and until they are civilian again. Many take this transition very harsh... but it's all in your attitude.

It's kinda like ATS... follow the rules all is fine. Don't then you will begin to feel like you are being singled out... but you're not... you're just not playing by the rules of the game.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

They are owned for their tenure, and there is no two ways about it. They can't even legally get a tattoo without risking being brought up on charges of defacing gov property.

This is not true. Military members can in fact get tattoos.

For an example, here is Air Force policy on tattoos and piercings:

usmilitary.about.com...

[edit on 2/27/2009 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by uaocteaou
reply to post by Hastobemoretolife

 

I'm sorry to disagree with you bro- but here is the oath;

""I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Sounds to me as if the oath is to the office, regardless of who occupys it.

They only thing that hints at being respected in that oath is the Consitution. Then it only says that I will SUPPORT. It never says anything about respecting the President. Only to obey his orders.


I only caught the las couple of years Clinton was in office and he just about had the our morale destroyed. We were the step children of our nation and was treated by him as such. If Obama wants our support, the way we support Bush, then he needs to show he is our friend. Go to a base and not play basketball when he is supposed to do a meet and greet. Go overseas and speak to us, not to a bunch of foreign teens who are there for a free concert just so you look good on television.

The best way.

Dont freeze our funding to the point where we have subpar equipment. It hasn't happened yet, but we remember what it was like.

He may have meant it or he may have just been running off at the mouth. Either way, that's one of those things that are and should be taken seriously. I don't agree with Obama on much, and he hasn't done anything to earn my respect yet, but you won't hear me talking about shooting him.

Five years does seem bit much if he was just running off at the mouth, but really it would be impossible to know if that was the case or not. He may have been serious and had it all planned out in his head, but without physical proof of his plans it would be impossible to prove that he was serious. Most likely he wasn't serious. Unfortunately for him they have no choice but to react as though he was.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

Yeah it's crazy in the military, and the young men and women in uniform very frequently forget that they lose all rights when they join up, and until they are civilian again. Many take this transition very harsh... but it's all in your attitude.

I agree, most people could use a good check up from the neck up several times a day.

I have noticed that veterans tend to accomplish more and go further in the civilian world thanks to the self discipline the services have instilled in them. In the end for most I think the benefits of military service outweigh the drawbacks.

ATS is the most enjoyable site on the Internet in my humble oppinion as the rules are actually enforced and make for a great environment for everyone.

Thanks again for your posts and insights and taking the time to share them.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

They are owned for their tenure, and there is no two ways about it. They can't even legally get a tattoo without risking being brought up on charges of defacing gov property.

This is not true. Military members can in fact get tattoos.

Got my sleeves done while stationed in Germany.

A fellow soldier who was a licensed tattooist came to my barracks room and inked me while sitting on my love seat watching AFN.

We cant get tattoos on our face or head, but that is pretty much it. As long as it is not offensive then it is okay. You should visit a town that is outside a base. Why do you think there are so many tattoo shops in those little towns?

Edit to add-

To stay on subject. This Marine cannot threaten the President and expect nothing to happen. He needs court martialed and a fine cell at Levenworth.

[edit on 27-2-2009 by jd140]

reply to post by Jenna

Five years does seem bit much if he was just running off at the mouth, but really it would be impossible to know if that was the case or not. He may have been serious and had it all planned out in his head, but without physical proof of his plans it would be impossible to prove that he was serious. Most likely he wasn't serious. Unfortunately for him they have no choice but to react as though he was.

I do feel kind of sorry for this Marine fool that he is. I can't imagine such a harsh penalty for a civilian talking out of the side of his mouth. I could be wrong but I have a hard time imagining he planned following through somehow with his threats.

A lone individual would basically have to be crazy to imagine their was any realistic chance had causing harm to the best protected and gaurded person in the world.

But as others have pointed out, he is/was aware of the higher standard his enlistment holds him too. What a shame.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

They are owned for their tenure, and there is no two ways about it. They can't even legally get a tattoo without risking being brought up on charges of defacing gov property.

This is not true. Military members can in fact get tattoos.

For an example, here is Air Force policy on tattoos and piercings:

usmilitary.about.com...

[edit on 2/27/2009 by greeneyedleo]

Yes they can.. but they CAN also be court martialed for ANYTHING, including getting a tattoo. The UCMJ is not a bill of rights, but a bill of wrongs. It tells you what you can get slammed for. There is one particular one which is completely anamorphic and can be used for anything.

I've seen sailors get busted for getting tattoos... I've also seen sailors get a pat on the back for getting tattoos by the same people who busted the other ones.

My point is this... your butt is theirs as long as you are enlisted or commissioned.

And there is no requirement that the UCMJ be enforced equally.



[edit on 27-2-2009 by HunkaHunka]

reply to post by HunkaHunka



Your talking out your butt dude. Google military tattoo policy and read it. As long as your tattoos are within regs you are allowed to have them. If you have racist, nude or others that could be viewd as offensive then, yes you will get into trouble. That is why it is always a smart idea to take a picture of your tattoo to your supervisor and inform him/her what you are doing and if this is in anyway offensive.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
It’s beginning to look like Obama needs to make some real efforts in stepping up in some way to assure the men and women serving in uniform in this country that he is a Commander in Chief worthy of their respect.

HunkaHunka said it, but I need to echo it: what a bunch of BS.

First off, tell me what justification that Marine had in saying such a thing about the president.

Second, OBAMA needs to make the efforts? What on Earth has he done to not earn their respect? Hell, the man has been in office for only a month, he has never said one bad thing about this country, and you imply that Obama is the one who needs to earn their respect? What did George W. Bush ever do to earn the respect of our soldiers? The man spent eight years in office screwing things up and not a single man in uniform ever threatened his life.

I'm sorry, but this is absurdity of the highest order. A man tasked with the defense of this country threatens the president, and its the president who needs to make amends? America, we are in a moral crisis.

Originally posted by xmotex
He's a Marine, not a civilian.

A Marine (or anyone else serving in the .mil) has to respect their chain of command.

If the military decides it doesn't have to respect the civilian leadership, we can kiss our democracy aside.

And if a Marine had said the same threatening Bush, I would say the same thing.

I'd go further to say that even if the guy was a civilian, making death threats on someone should be treated very seriously. Many people first think, then speak, then act. Some don't but it should certainly be a red flag when someone talks about off'ing anyone no matter who they are.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
That sure would be one heck of a way to do it. I think it would be kind of easier just to lie and say you were gay?

In this administration, that more likely to get you a medal than relieved of duty.

[edit on 27-2-2009 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
I'd go further to say that even if the guy was a civilian, making death threats on someone should be treated very seriously. Many people first think, then speak, then act. Some don't but it should certainly be a red flag when someone talks about off'ing anyone no matter who they are.

Exactly. There is a fine line between "not respecting the man" and threatening his life.

This Marine crossed that line. There is nothing to debate or discuss. The respect he has to earn is that of the jury and that of God.

Originally posted by uaocteaou

You respect the office, not the man.

I'm calling BS! Respect is something to be earned, not given by the vote of the electoral college. A person is to gain respect by their actions, not title. I don't care what oath you have or have not taken, but if you believe that respect is entitled, you have given away your right to an opinion.

I had zero respect for the last man in the Oval Office, I felt so poorly of him, that I could not even bear to refer to him as the President. Obama can earn my respect by doing the job he was given, and getting the United States of America back to the glory that it once was.

And back on topic, this man should be charged accordingly for "threatening" another person, maybe slightly harsher for it being the CIC, but he is still entitled his opinion. If you threaten somebody on the street, you are subject to criminal charges.

[edit on 27-2-2009 by Mekanic]

reply to post by uaocteaou


Yes, a good example might be the way the Nazi's followed Hitler right? They should just shut up and do what they are told right? Your argument is hard to find any fault with...it's so logical. No matter what the man does, let's say hypothetically he did something really bad, he is the top dog so do what he says. Man I'm proud to be an American.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

That's bull, I got one. There wasn't anyone going to do anything about that. They also said that about getting sunburned, another bull story. You need to try harder to distinguish falsehoods from reality.