Canada intercepts Russian bomber

reply to post by Static Sky


Cheers.

Honestly though my map co-ords are inaccurate. They were based around a 170km intercept from Tuktoyaktuk where as the truth was a 190km..

Technically it would have been between or right on the edge of Canada/US airspace and the Tu would have approached right on the legally defined line, even closer to Alaska than the map shows...

Still a 'par for the course' for an arctic bear patrol route.

The entire media sensation seems to be nothing more than some idiot attempting to score political points by yapping about a subject he doesn't understand.

Amusingly where people say 'why didn't the USAF respond' when it was so close to Alaska, the USAF hasn't said anything because they don't and this is work as usual so why would they start yelling about it...

Originally posted by DEEZNUTZ
When I first heard about this story from someone at work I thought the damn thing flew near Ottawa or something. When I got home and watched the news and checked out the story online I got a feel of the real reason this is such a big deal.

Previous posters are correct this old game has been going on for 50 years with a little break in the 90's when Russia had no money. On some Patrols they get a little closer to the border others they stay back. They're collecting ELINT data on our radars, comm frequencies checking response times, they know when they got detected then they push on to see how long it takes to have two of the best fighter pilots in the world to show up and tell them to F-OFF. It is sadly more or less routine.

However, it is my opinion that the Harper Gov't is pulling a good ole' Conservative oldie but a goodie of distracting the population with a threat to hide the fact that they are tanking our country into a massive deficit that isn't going accomplish much long-term except the bonus of appearing to do something so that they look good for the upcoming election which will probably be in the fall if things don't start going better(a lot better).

Their trying to distract us from the miserable job they are doing of handling this crisis. He can't appear to be siding with Obama too much or he'll risk losing the Conservative base for being too Liberal. We do not need to stir the pot at a time when our country is weak.

I fully believe a concerted effort should be made to modernize our miliatry over a 10 year period starting with the airforce. I believe the smartest purchases for us would be 2 squadrons of F-35(great for small bases in the arctic and still supersonic)

2 squadrons of Eurofighters for air superiority.

A couple of these show up to escort them out the Russians will start to backdown. Their mistake is that although our equipment is old our pilots training and abilities close a lot of technology gaps. Canada is a frequent winner of Red Flag and Maple Flag. Them boys and girls are the best.
We need to upgrade our communications capabilities and launch our own sattelites. Upgrade our Navy and Army with more modern equipement and when we ask men and women to go on missions on our behalf we give them the best equipment money can buy(within reason

)

It's another Harper "Smoke and Mirrors" game to distract us. He's going to have to do better.

[edit on 28-2-2009 by DEEZNUTZ]

[edit on 28-2-2009 by DEEZNUTZ]

I totally agree with you on the Distraction and Fear tactic. Nothing new here, only politicians, screwing with the general public, Probably Encouraged by US to Desensitize our country, Canada is Feeling more American Everyday, I'm not anti-American here only Pro-Canadian and i feel we are hooped. It's all part of the Game Paul Martin and Bush Started, to integrate our societies and pull more of our sovereignty away from both nations , You are our brothers Aren't you?

Peace

Originally posted by Absence of Self
reply to post by Static Sky

 

Cheers.

Honestly though my map co-ords are inaccurate. They were based around a 170km intercept from Tuktoyaktuk where as the truth was a 190km..

Technically it would have been between or right on the edge of Canada/US airspace and the Tu would have approached right on the legally defined line, even closer to Alaska than the map shows...

Still a 'par for the course' for an arctic bear patrol route.

The entire media sensation seems to be nothing more than some idiot attempting to score political points by yapping about a subject he doesn't understand.

Amusingly where people say 'why didn't the USAF respond' when it was so close to Alaska, the USAF hasn't said anything because they don't and this is work as usual so why would they start yelling about it...

One correction to the map is the intercept point was NE of Tuktoyaktuk (try saying that after a beer or two), not NW as shown in the map. It would be interesting if someone posted a similar map also showing the distance from Eilson Air Force Base to the intercept (about half the distance compared to Cold Lake distance to intercept).

I'm not sure about the whole circumstances of the minister's statement. My guess he was briefed about the intercept as part of discussions about Canada's contribution to NORAD. The discussion was probably made to emphasize the importance of Canada's contribution and the necessity of maintaining fighter interception response capability. I know most Canadians seem to take a very casual attitude to national defense and that is a reason that successive governments have whittled away at our defense capability. So it is possible the minister was just trying to let Canadians know that there is a reason to maintain an Air Force.

My point about US response is that it is quite possible that NORAD decided to pass the response on to Canada as there clearly is a need for Canadians to have actual interception experience even if they are based an awful long way from the ADIZ (NORAD Air Defense Indentification Zone). Of course it is quite possible that the US also had their fighters in the air in case the Canadian CF-18s didn't get to the air space border in time.

If you look at a map of the NORAD ADIZ, the northern border of this zone extends only part way into the northern arctic islands. NORAD (and Canada) don't even maintain a pretense that the airspace over these islands is defended and/or controlled by NORAD. In effect, Canada has by default ceded this vast "Canadian territorial" airspace to Russia or China or anyone else who wants to use it.

I found one statement by the Canadian defense minister to be a little whiny and pathetic. He seemed to be complaining that Canada has asked the Russians to tell us when they are sending over their bombers and they have so far not complied. Really? If Canada can't afford to defend its own air space then maybe it should make some deal with someone, like the US, to protect our common strategic interests.

This may be just a minor irritant right now, but if Canada is serious about defending its arctic territory it simply MUST put an air and naval defense base or bases up in the arctic. Everything suggests that at a minimum, the arctic will be open during the summer for commercial shipping in a few years and there will be people up there trying to extract resources like oil.

Here you go:

I've changed the location to a 40 degree NE Approx from Tuktoyaktuk at 190km shifting it much further away from the Alaskan border.

This leaves Eielson AFB at a distance to intercept of 980km at a 40 degree heading and Cold Lake at 2040km at 340 degrees.

You were more or less spot on with the guess.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/9ff2258eb6836eca.jpg[/atsimg]

so was it a Bear or a BlackJack?

i doubt its a blackjack to be honest - as quite simply they would be somewhere around 8000 km from there base at Saratov just for a sight seeing trip


even money it was a Bear-H

Most of the press reports keep saying it was a TU-160 though some aren't pinning the model saying it was either...
(Amusingly even Wikipedia now says it was a blackjack too)

I'd say it was probably a bear too though.

(Doh, just noticed I've typo'd on the image... )

you could allways make an image from Saratov to the intercept point

Originally posted by Harlequin
reply to post by star in a jar

 

yeah and i remember when the US Navy blew up that passenger jet in the middle east as well......

I remember the middle east blowing up jets as well. lol

I heard about this about a week ago. TheRussians...I was told do this every few months.

It is one of the ways Russia says Hi...and they wanted to say hello to Prime Minister Harper and President Obama.

Harper would love nothing more then to have this little display. He would be giddy about it in a normal situation but when I watched him with President Obama he could barely look at the President. Wierd huh.


Obama had Buffalo (Bison with Saskatoon Berries) when he was here and I heard Harper had Baby Seal fresh from the ice.





[edit on 1-3-2009 by whiteraven]

reply to post by whiteraven


not at cruise altitude , squawking civilian IFF in commercial flight lanes....

reply to post by Harlequin



How high did the jet blow up over Lockerbe....Scotland?


Of course the Russians shot down the Korean airline as well.

Do not get me wrong...I respect and admire the Russians. They are as sinister as us.

[edit on 1-3-2009 by whiteraven]

reply to post by Harlequin


Could do yeah, but the only way to fit everything in would be from high orbit..

lol.

It measures up as 6440km from Engels.

At 12880km round trip that would be getting just a tad extreme though it is within range.

Originally posted by star in a jar


I remember the time Russian fighters blew up that passenger jet near Japan, it was an accident but... It could still happen again.

They accidently pulled the trigger?

lol

Some very important people died on that flight. 8 Canadians...62 Americans including Congressman Larry Macdonald...one of our guys.

Or did they all die? We have a certain powerful Senator who believes otherwise. He wrote a letter to Yeltsin (Helms) asking where Mcdonald was!

Seems that Senator Helms gave weight to conspiracy.

Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by greshnik

 

I do hope that was sarcasm

The US has been doing exactly the same to Russia since WW2, only the US didn't stop at the end of the Cold War.

Yes, but people behind the Western "iron curtain" are trained to see Russians as an eternal evil force, like in "1984". When you mention "russian bomber" reaction is automatic...never fails. Thousands (probably millions) of soldiers (from all countries) in WW II have died with this illusion in their brains..."fighting the enemy".


[edit on 1-3-2009 by greshnik]

reply to post by whiteraven


Lockerbie was Libya not russia , have a looky at iran flight 655

reply to post by Harlequin

Hence the term Middle East..or OPEC...

Need I explain the Russian connection? Colonel Gaddafi had many Russian connections adapting a form of Islamic Socialism. He has great influence in Africa and Russia and China use Libya as leverage in the Dark Continent.

PS...Thanks..I have never looked at that flight Iran 655..although I had read about it in the newspaper.
I will look deeper into it.


Interesting Lists
en.wikipedia.org...

List of airliner shootdown incidents

en.wikipedia.org...

I wonder what how the world would view a Canadian Jet shooting down a Russian Jet?



[edit on 1-3-2009 by whiteraven]

Originally posted by Harlequin
so was it a Bear or a BlackJack?

i doubt its a blackjack to be honest - as quite simply they would be somewhere around 8000 km from there base at Saratov just for a sight seeing trip


even money it was a Bear-H

All the news reports I read and watched in Canada state it was a Tu-95 Bear bomber. No mention about "BlackJack" in any report...

I think you're missing the point of this whole story. Why is it even making the news? It happens on a monthly basis and has been for 50 years. Sure it was to test what Alert Status we we're at considering we had a Major Head Of State Obama visiting our country. It is routine much like American planes and subs probing Russia's boundaries. It is sadly routine.

The only reason this is making the news is because Harper needs a distraction so he can slip $3 BillionLink in unchecked spending under the rug. Not too mention the $13 Billion surplus he squandered last year or the fact that none of his advisers saw this coming years ago. He can't lead a country, he's a good opposition leader but he is not a Prime Minister. And we're seeing that come to roost. We do not need a war with Russia.

Why did this jackass get elected again?

[edit on 2-3-2009 by DEEZNUTZ]

www.airforce.forces.gc.ca...
HI all

Please check out this interesting video from the Airforce's own website that showcases exactly how a CF 18 is scrambled.
If the Blackjack was in the location they say it was then it was not 2000 km's away but only a few hundred. This showcases the blackjacks ability to fly low fly fast and fly under the radar. It is common practise to go slow in a bear and showcase russian might but the really scary examples are when the planes come in low and fast and out of no where.

The pilots in this video are based out of CFB Cold Lake and thus so are the aircraft thus the governments assertion that the planes are scrambled from CFB Cold Lake is true....from a certain point of view.

o

Isn't this story classified information for National Security purposes? Why was it disclosed to the media.? Oh yeah, I forgot, it is only classified when it serves their purposes. Just like a no-story becomes some big overblown event when it also serves their purposes.

The Russians are not only testing Canada's and the U.S. response for their bombers flying over Canadian and U.S. airspace. This time they might noit have been over anyone's airspace, but several times since 2007 they have done so.

This, together with the fact that the Russians used their old satellite to crash against a new U.S. satellite, should be telling people the Russians are not our friends.

Russia, China, and some other countries have been calling for a new economy not based on the U.S. dollar since at least 2007 also.

Didn't anyone find it a bit strange that after the Iranian government signed contracts with the Russians, and the Chinese for their military defense programs, that the Iranian president was telling everyone the U.S. was soon to fall for about two years before the whole economic crisis?

The economic crisis is in great part to be blamed on bankers, and even on us U.S. civilians for gettings loans people could not pay for houses etc, but in order to make the problem global there must have been other things happening.

The Russians, the Chinese, and the Iranian president among other very far left countries/leaders have been calling for a new world order, and a new economy controlled by the Chinese, the Russian, and some others.

The Chinese own most of the debt of the U.S., they could very well make economic deals to devalue the dollar, which has been happening, and this in turn helps not only the Chinese, but other countries whose main goal is to at first destroy the U.S. economic power, so that they will become the new world powers.

It is too much of a coincidence for all of this to be happening at the same time.

Is it possible that the Iranian president was told by other world powers, such as Russia, and China, that the rule of the U.S. would come to an end soon?

Ahmadinejad calls for new world order
Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:40:51 GMT

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has called for a new world order based on new ideas, saying the era of tyranny has come to a dead-end.

In an exclusive interview with Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB), Ahmadinejad noted that it is time to propose new ideologies for running the world.

He said the time of tyrannical regimes is over and arrogant powers can no longer proceed with business as usual since their capitalism-based economies are collapsing.

"Tyrannical regimes will not last forever and they will reach their end sooner or later," Ahmadinejad stated.

The president said people across the globe are fed up with the slogans of the arrogant powers.

He cited the widespread protests in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan, where he believes the major powers' policies are failing.

"Any civilization or empire that wants to impose its ideas on others through the use of force will reach its end in the near future," he said.

Iran can present new ideas and views, which the world will need in the future, he added.

The Iranian president stated that Israel's defeat in its Gaza offensive was the beginning of a new order in the world. "Now they are in disarray and new developments are unfolding."

Israel's 23-day offensive against Gaza, which ended on January 18, was condemned by the international community and caused divisions among major Israeli political parties.

AR/DB/HGL

www.presstv.ir...