Canada intercepts Russian bomber

Canadian jets scrambled to intercept Russian bomber before Obama visit

www.cbc.ca

Canadian fighter jets scrambled to intercept a Russian plane approaching Canadian airspace shortly before U.S. President Barack Obama visited Ottawa, the defence minister said Friday.

Peter MacKay said he wasn't accusing Russia of deliberately timing the flight to coincide with the visit — when Canadian security was focused in Ottawa — but he did call it a "strong coincidence."

"It was a strong coincidence which we met with … CF-18 fighter planes and world-class pilots that know their business," said MacKay.

(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 27-2-2009 by baseball101]

Wow ... strange indeed! do you think it was a coincidence? there's something going on around us ... is this a sign of what's coming to light in the world? a russian bomber just happens to be flying over Canada when the president is there ... hmmm ... i don't know exactly what i think about this ... this is just too big of a coincidence in my opinion ... what do you all think?

www.cbc.ca
(visit the link for the full news article)

Well I'm glad Obama didn't come to my city, then.

I wouldn't have wanted to wake up (dead) in a city of glass and ash.

I still think we shouldn't have sent up our fighters against that Russian bomber- If the Russians wanted to nuke us, they would have done it about a minute ago.

I remember the time Russian fighters blew up that passenger jet near Japan, it was an accident but... It could still happen again.

Its nothing new. The Russians have been doing this since the days of the Cold War. They stopped for a while during the 90s, but seem to have started again in recent years.

Probing probing. Seems like they were testing the response times of those fighter jets. Wonder if they were pleased, or a little taken a back at how swift the Canadians responded. I swear, within the next 5 years we will start another "Cold War" with the Reds. MARK MY WORDS!

reply to post by star in a jar


yeah and i remember when the US Navy blew up that passenger jet in the middle east as well......

they do this over the UK very regularly, talking once a week to once a fortnight at least, RAF usually intercepts them and turns them around over the north sea.

The timing is obviously to give a vexing little poke to the new President, but really this is nothing. It happens a lot and I'll give a link with a little more info than the OP.

calsun.canoe.ca...

This link describes a non-verbal pilots language that pretty much all fighter pilots around the world are taught.

Also, why doesn't the US station a bunch of fighters at Cold Lake, Alberta (where our F-18's are typicaly scrambled from to respond to such arctic 'excersizes'), and run a few arctic excersizes of thier own? I wonder how the Russians would feel if a couple dozen fighters where buzzing around their doorstep for a couple weeks.

Ridill is quite correct.

This is normal and not in the slightest bit unusual.

Some of the chaps up at RAF Leuchars are said to get close enough to swap e-mail addresses and such.

BTW..

If any are interested you may find these serve as interesting background material:

By Any Means Necessary: America's Secret Air War in the Cold War (Hardcover)by William E. Burrows (Author)

Body of Secrets: Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret National Security Agency (Paperback) by James Bamford

The Sword and the Shield: The Mitrokhin Archive and the Secret History of the KGB (Paperback) by Christopher Andrew (Author), Vasili Mitrokhin (Author)

reply to post by Ridill

reply to post by Absence of Self


you don't find it at all a little suspicious that they just happened to be flying over just before Obama was to arrive?

Nope.

Happens in the UK every few weeks.

Funny too that despite the interesting slant presented by the news article the Russians didn't even enter Canadian airspace never mind buzz Obama who was due to visit Ottawa and the interceptors were launched from Cold Lake..

Thats a separation distance of about 1700 miles and the interceptors sure weren't flying south east.

To put it in a geographic perspective thats like complaining the queen of england is being threatened cos there are bombers over moscow....
(Which are actually closer together than the distances involved in this case)

reply to post by Absence of Self


Very well put Absence of Self. This is not unusual and it is really nothing to get alarmed about. The Russians do this fairly often and we always send a couple F-18's, almost always from Cold Lake to turn them back. A little 'wing waving' and they turn back every time.

And to be clear, the Russians didn't really do anything wrong at all. They stayed in their own airspace the entire time and when 'advised' by 2 fighters to back off, they did. No way this makes the news anywhere if the Russians and Americans weren't a little tense about each other like they've been in the last little while.

Russia toys with US air space all the time up in Alaska. The bases up there are always scrambling jets because of it. It just doesnt make the news often.

Originally posted by Static Sky
reply to post by Absence of Self

 

And to be clear, the Russians didn't really do anything wrong at all. They stayed in their own airspace the entire time and when 'advised' by 2 fighters to back off, they did. No way this makes the news anywhere if the Russians and Americans weren't a little tense about each other like they've been in the last little while.

The Russians were not "in their own airspace", they were flying in international airspace on the edge of Canadian air space. I believe the territorial air space is 12 miles offshore so its like saying if a Russian bomber is twelve miles west of Los Angeles, it is flying in Russian air space!

That said, the incident is a more or less normal occurence. I am a little doubtful the CF-18s would be able to make it to the intercept point from Cold Lake Alberta (about 2100 km). There are USAF bases much closer to this point in Alaska. So either the Canadians had about three hours to fly to the intercept location or they were based somewhere in the arctic and not in Cold Lake.

Those lumbering bears are not a huge worry, they stop em miles off... Yes they can pack a punch, but they are out dated and nothing stealthy about them what so ever.

Now the Blackjacks (Tupolev Tu-160) are a bit of a worry, they have a 'loiter / sprint' capability, where as the Bear will bimble around, the Blackjack will loiter, feeling out the situation, checking response, radio activity all sorts of things - and it carries a lot of fuel, it can loiter a long time even air to air refuel... Then if the moment is right they turn the taps on and sprint into the deployment - top speed Mach 2+.

Originally posted by bluestreak53

That said, the incident is a more or less normal occurence. I am a little doubtful the CF-18s would be able to make it to the intercept point from Cold Lake Alberta (about 2100 km). There are USAF bases much closer to this point in Alaska. So either the Canadians had about three hours to fly to the intercept location or they were based somewhere in the arctic and not in Cold Lake.

That is the only place in the West that CF-18s are based. So there is no other place they could have come from.

Location(s) * 3 Wing Bagotville, QC * 4 Wing Cold Lake, AB

Taken straight from the Canadian Air Force site.
www.airforce.forces.gc.ca...

You do realize the top speed of an F-18 is 2 203.2 kilometer/hour right? So that is an hour flight, radar would have picked them up really early and even at an hour and a half they would have had time to get to them.

Like everyone says though, this is routine. Having lived in Cold Lake and talking with pilots, they used to do these just about twice a month or so.

Originally posted by bluestreak53

The Russians were not "in their own airspace", they were flying in international airspace on the edge of Canadian air space. I believe the territorial air space is 12 miles offshore so its like saying if a Russian bomber is twelve miles west of Los Angeles, it is flying in Russian air space!

I'm sorry for my error. It is indeed international airspace. Though my point was that no act of trespassing was commited. No international laws were violated. And as Rook1545 pointed out, Cold Lake is absolutely the place the fighters were scrambled from (as mentioned in the news articles too).

Since the Russians do this all the time, I suspect that when the (relatively slow) Russian bomber was seen by NORAD, they new exactly what was happening and had plenty of time to send a response. Business as usual.

And though 12 miles off the coast may well be the boarder of international waters, I don't think this event in the arctic is even remotely comparable to if they sent a bomber to buzz around in the LA area. Just my 2 cents.

Extra hours for the pilots... They don't see much action over there anyway so a few intercept flights keep them occupied

I know that's where they're officially supposed to be stationed, but we know they're very frequently placed elsewhere.

Living next to CFB Trenton, it was supposed to be for cargo purposes... much of the time it had fighters on the tarmac.


After a while, you stop believing the official statements. When they claim they have X amount of a vehicle, they're low-balling it, by allot. And they're likely only telling you where half of them are.

It was humorous when that Antonov went off the runway. The Russians wanted to fly in their own equipment to retrieve their bird from the forest.
The techs flown in were escorted by a pair of Migs... which by the way... "weren't there".

lol.
"Hey, cool, Russians are on base."
"No they're not."
"You mean the Russian Mig with the Russian flag on the tail escorting the Russian jet with Russian techs to retrieve the Russian Antonov isn't Russian?"

Originally posted by Rook1545

Originally posted by bluestreak53

That said, the incident is a more or less normal occurence. I am a little doubtful the CF-18s would be able to make it to the intercept point from Cold Lake Alberta (about 2100 km). There are USAF bases much closer to this point in Alaska. So either the Canadians had about three hours to fly to the intercept location or they were based somewhere in the arctic and not in Cold Lake.

That is the only place in the West that CF-18s are based. So there is no other place they could have come from.
..
You do realize the top speed of an F-18 is 2 203.2 kilometer/hour right? So that is an hour flight, radar would have picked them up really early and even at an hour and a half they would have had time to get to them.

Like everyone says though, this is routine. Having lived in Cold Lake and talking with pilots, they used to do these just about twice a month or so.

I know there are only two bases for CF-18s in Canada and I know that the news report says that the CF-18s came from Cold Lake BUT something is not quite right here.

The top speed for the CF-18 may be 2000 km but it would have a VERY short range flying at that speed. Its cruising speed is about 1060 kph and it would have to fly about this speed to have the range to fly this distance (2100 km is about max range). So even if it were flying the two hours to get to the interecept point, it would be running out of fuel about this time. Okay maybe the americans fly in a refueler from Alaska to help out. My point is that the USAF base at Fairbanks is half the distance to the intercept point. So I am guessing that the USAF crews are told to stand down so NORAD can "give the Canadian air crews from way down in Alberta" some time to fly up to the arctic? I mean we are talking joint command of air space. The fighters are all under joint command. So obviously if NORAD was going to wait an extra hour to let the Canadians fly up from Alberta, then it was hardly a significant international incident by any measure.

Also note that there are only two CF-18 bases in Canada but CF-18s are often out in other locations on rotation or temporary assignment. I know there are CF-18s often in Comox BC and someone told me there are always a couple CF-18s stationed there from Cold Lake. I also wouldn't be surprised if there are some out at other bases such as USAF bases in Alaska.