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try to debunk this

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posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 11:44 AM
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reply to post by BrnBdry
 


Considering that internos has more experience researching the UFO phenomena than pretty much everyone in this thread combined and considering the amount of work he does with CGI and Photoshop I'd take his opinion a bit more seriously if I were you. He wouldn't have posted unless he had done his research and studied the video thoroughly. You say you want people to try to debunk this yet when people do you ridicule them for their conclusions. This is exactly why the UFO field is seen as a joke. It's people like you who are blindly willing to believe that a video must be a UFO and nothing will change your mind. Maybe if we had people who were willing to dedicate as much of their time as internos to dissecting a case thoroughly and scientifically this field might actually be able to produce results that the public would be interested in hearing.




posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 12:15 PM
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So he proved to you his credentials? If not........ why is he more likely to be believed in what he says about his credentials, over this video itself?

Video is more proof than someones word.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by BrnBdry
So he proved to you his credentials? If not........ why is he more likely to be believed in what he says about his credentials, over this video itself?

Video is more proof than someones word.




Go back and check the links in internos' signature.

I think you'll be pleasantly suprised by what you find.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by sdrawkcabII
 

Of course I know theres the possibility - thats my official stance on everything! But its probability Im taking into account. Not to mention the fact that there are a million theories, including the double agent theory, which I plan to start into my own thread.

My point wasnt "aliens simply 100% dont exist" - it was aliens dont "exist", as in, a positive, definitive, 100% thing. There are other things that can account for everything (as I have stated).

Also, my point was that the video doesnt prove aliens exist in the slightest, I think it looks like another fighter jet actually.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 01:23 PM
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I dont' really care what you all believe or not.
All I can say is my signature says it all.
Be glad we have no proof other than believing respected
peoples word! We sure wouldn't ever want to do that!
Do you think people would of ever believed Columbus if
he wouldn't of brought "proof" home to Spain?
Think the gubment still cares about you? Same answer.
I guess untill one lands in YOUR yard, you won't ever
believe it anyway. Must be nice to create your own reality
based on personal feelings, theories and conjecture.
Enjoy your sheltered & predictable lives while you still can.

[edit on 28-2-2009 by dodadoom]



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by BrnBdry
In all seriousness, it's not there, it's there, It drops, and casts a shadow on the clouds. Pretty amazing footage if you ask me.


It doesn't material out of thin-air...it emerges from the clouds the same time the F-16 does.

Still curious what this is supposed to be proof of.


It's not 'proof' ..it's Evidence,

the proof will be when a person/group of people decides scientifically and through the law of physics, that this is no earthly craft that we know of because it/they defy law of physics(of sorts), or just a black military project.

the only thing missing.........the Judge and his hammer. I keep wondering who that will be.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by Komodo
 

How bout the Supreme court? It sure worked well
to decide for us who won the 2000 election, eh?
Course that's just all heresay and unproven.




[edit on 28-2-2009 by dodadoom]



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by Komodo
It's not 'proof' ..it's Evidence,


I know the difference between evidence and proof; however, I was using the OP's own words to ask him a question...


Originally posted by BrnBdry
To me this is the proof...not that I really needed any to begin with.


But evidence or proof, the question remains, one which thus far the believers here have refused to answer. What is it proof/evidence of?



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by dodadoom
Why should I prove anything, the video is supposed to undebunkable! The bearer of proof lies in the skeptics.


No, it does not. The burden of proof lies on the claimant, in this case the OP (or his supporters). You cannot simply claim the video is "undebunkable," you must demonstrate why it is "undebunkable" (in fact, it would be nice if you even provided a hypothesis as to what you think it is in the first place...which every single one of you has refused to do).

If skeptics wish to make a counter-claim to explain it, then yes they will have to provide a cogent argument or evidence. However, the OP is not exempt from the burden of proof.

Again, I will ask: What is the claim being made about this video? What do you believe it to be?


Originally posted by dodadoom
I'm on his side while he endures the usual trampling.


He is not being trampled. People are asking questions and offering their opinion on the matter. Both are allowed; if you want an echo-chamber or are so sensitive as to take any debate as an attack, I would suggest ATS is not the place for you.


Originally posted by dodadoom
For instance, everyone hollers about the dude(sorry) in gulf breeze that took the UFO photos. A model was found in his attic when he was away.
Did it ever occur to anyone,maybe it was a setup to make the whole thing look bad?


Ed Walters.

That could be the case, you are right. But unless you have evidence of it, it is nothing but speculation; speculation proves nothing nor is it the same as evidence. We can only go on what we have evidence for and the preponderance of evidence is that Ed Waters was perpetrating a hoax.


Originally posted by dodadoom
. If you are worried about being thought of as a disinfo agent, don't act like one, whomever this may apply to.


How does one act like a disinfo agent? Is simply enough to disagree with someone about a UFO case?



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 05:31 PM
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reply to post by SaviorComplex
 

Thanks for your replies! I will answer your question here.
I think it proves we just don't know everything there is under the sun!
To think we do is arrogant. It is healthy to be critical and skeptical, yes.
However there is more to life than what ever meets the eye, or is even
understood by it. It could be martians or russians. Who knows.
If I told you that stove was hot don't touch it and you didn't know what
hot meant, would you believe me and not touch it, Mr. Complex?
What if we were having this debate about whether flying in general
was even possible? That wouldn't have had to be very long ago by
the way. You would say, sure it is, jump off a cliff, you're flying.
Just because it is a personal interpetation of the truth, doesnt make
it an actual one.
I am a little sensitive about it, you are right, I have my reasons.
Being too critical may also be a detriment to real insight sometimes.
What are UFOS, really? ET knows. You think he believes in us?
There is enough evidence already to warrant a full scale scientific
investigation by said community, but we call people kooks and
always assume something else must be behind it.
We follow a trail where it will lead us based on our prejudices,
usually. We try to prove ourselves correct instead of being impartial.
Like I said, I wish I had that luxury to doubt grainy old videos.
ED WALTERS!!! Thanks for that! Duh, I'm not a young pup anymore!


P.S. Dont worry, I dont think YOUR a secret agent man. Congrats.
(of course I don't know you that well...yet)


P.S.S. May not be an answer as much as "useless speculation" and
as always, strictlyinmymosthumbleopinion.


[edit on 28-2-2009 by dodadoom]



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 07:43 PM
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Well maybe maybe not?



posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by BrnBdry
 





Video is more proof than someones word.


So then, you believe that The Curious Case of Benjamin Button was an actual biography?

Video is proof of nothing.




posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 12:46 AM
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I just want to say...I doubt the mods will even let this post on the forum...I agree the moderators here are not very good..but then again..from all the closed minds that seem to think ET and UFO are not real...I guess it doesn't really matter when you can't see past your nose...

BTW Moderators....you really should get rid of "post anonymously"..if you refuse to post these messages...I know...I have posted several...and not one..is posted in any of the threads.... They were not directed at staff..as this one is...but..I really am just making a point...You guys..have a messed up way...

I will make sure this place will remain..a laughing stock..



posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Pardon me for being a bit lost here but what is this supposed to be proof of?


Proof of an UFO or unidentified flying object. I believe he proved it to be such.

But on another point, it is flying at the same speed as the jet and perpendicular to it. It then loses altitude in what appears to be a controlled descent as witnessed by the curved descent.

Not a bird or a Chinese balloon. Nor could it be a meteor. This is one of the best videos to prove the existence of strange shaped unidentified craft that we can't touch as far as maneuverability is concerned.

In my opinion it appears to be a craft of unknown origin doing extraordinary things.

Yet one more pillar in the UFO "alien" theory.



posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 01:58 AM
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James Bond is giving you the business and you still don't believe it. As far as I am concerned it is a UFO. Only because I can not clearly see what it is. ET Maybe. But can't be certain. In my opinion.

[edit on 1-3-2009 by Ant4AU]



posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by Lasheic
reply to post by BrnBdry
 





Video is more proof than someones word.


So then, you believe that The Curious Case of Benjamin Button was an actual biography?

Video is proof of nothing.


Don't be a jackass.



posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 02:03 AM
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Comment by fooffstarr

3) The video in question, the 'gun camera footage', has many holes in it's story.

4) Firstly, the video was said to be taken from a Mig fighter plane's nose gun camera.
- They aren't Migs.
- Nose gun camera don't point to the side

-----------------------------

Crikey, some SHARP MINDS on here. You've just managed to tangle yourself in semantics for 7 pages, well done. Fooff, you have advocated people researching a subject before commenting...unfortunately all your "facts" appear to come from that one article.

As has been mentioned, and is even said on the original vid ffs, the plane in view is a US jet, the camera mounted on a MiG. I feel I should mention at this point that planes HAVENT HAD NOSE GUNS SINCE WW2 FFS, and that a MiG actually has its gun mounted on the port (left, fact fans) wing base. NOTE - THESE CAMERAS ARE NOT FIXED AND CAN SWIVEL. Just to get some facts in there.

Someone said about a page back they get suspicious when crafts just "appear" from behind something, a plane, or cloud...it is much harder to achieve this with CGI, than it is to have it come from off the screen, or start the film with it already there.

Ironically, having said all this, I still don't think it's the real deal
but that's just what I think! It is really neither here nor there



posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 06:35 AM
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Originally posted by TH3ON3
Proof of an UFO or unidentified flying object. I believe he proved it to be such.


I wish the believers would stop playing semantic games.

We have established that the video (taken at face value) seems to represent a UFO. However, when I suggested that it is a strict dictionary definition of a UFO, I was attacked for it.


Originally posted by TH3ON3
This is one of the best videos to prove the existence of strange shaped unidentified craft that we can't touch as far as maneuverability is concerned.


It may not being doing as extraordinary as it appears. It may not descend as fast as it looks; since the jet in the foreground is moving, it could give the appearance that the object in the background is slowing at a faster rate than it actually is.

Even if things are just as they appear, are there no jets that cannot maneuver the same way?


Originally posted by TH3ON3
Yet one more pillar in the UFO "alien" theory.


I am glad one believer finally had the courage to say what they mean and mean what they say.



posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 06:38 AM
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reply to post by SaviorComplex
 


Ever thought of stateing your comment, and providing a debate, and when ignorance overwhelms your skepticism, giving up?

Does it really bother you this much? I mean, from the looks of this thread it's already been debunked(as much as it can, by affiliation.).

Anyways.... Just sayin, don't take anything on here seriouslly.



posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 06:40 AM
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Originally posted by dodadoom
I think it proves we just don't know everything there is under the sun!
To think we do is arrogant.


Only those with a severe lack of understand of how science works or how scientists think have this attitude. In fact, this arrogance you accuse scientists and skeptics of is far more common among UFO believers.


Originally posted by dodadoom
P.S. Dont worry, I dont think YOUR a secret agent man. Congrats.
(of course I don't know you that well...yet)



Thank Sagan you've cleared me! Now I'll be able to sleep at night!



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