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try to debunk this

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posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by Odessy
 

It's funner to put down others and derail the threads instead
of ACTUALLY doing some research to ACTUALLY help out!
If the people really knew what was going on, they would
only continue to deny it or cut down the messenger.
However undeniable that evidence really is, anyway.

The world will always be flat to some....

Remember, its the whole alien/religion thing that scares us!
Funny how you can tell how true something is, just by the
readings of some of the (im)posters! Thanks!!!




posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 09:52 PM
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Whether or not anyone "believes" in UFOs is a retarded argument. You may as well argue a "belief" in shadows. Yes, of course shadows exist, but I defy anyone to capture a shadow in a bottle and bring it into the lab. And photographs of shadows, like photographs of UFOs, do not constitute evidence.

The real question is what the hell are the UFOs flitting about in our skies?

In the case of this video from the OP, the question remains unanswered. The video shows nothing particularly extraordinary, aside from a dark mass of pixels in the background descending through the apparent cloud deck.

What exactly is this supposed to prove? It certainly doesn't say anything about extraterrestrial intelligence — it conveys no data whatsoever to support that contention.

The best we can do with this video is speculate. The "object" in the background appears to descend too steeply and too quickly to be a physical aircraft. Therefore, we could reasonably speculate that it may be some sort of experimental unmanned military technology, but it is more likely a videographic hoax.

I do not automatically jump to the conclusion that this is a video of otherworldly technology, and I frankly do not understand why so many people automatically make that leap of reasoning. There is no information, no "evidence" at all in this video that can be extrapolated into a case for extraterrestrial intelligence.

— Doc Velocity

[edit on 2/27/2009 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 10:31 PM
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This was a flight that occured on June 18, 2008. It involved an F-16 and an A-10 Thunderbolt. It was a flight between McDill AFB and Patrick AFB in Florida.

Reference PDA 414-810 at www.usaf.gov/fplan



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 10:33 PM
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reply to post by StonyJ
 


How is that possible when the video has been around for over a decade?



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by fooffstarr
reply to post by StonyJ
 


How is that possible when the video has been around for over a decade?


Time travel?

TWO line post



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by StonyJ
 


Time traveling American-Russian jets with sideways pointing nose cameras... I thought I'd seen it all



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 11:02 PM
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Hmmmm....I forgot about the third jet that recorded the aforementioned flight......

With the "side-mounted camera", I'll have to say it was an SR-71.

......or a Cessna 182

[edit on 2/27/09 by StonyJ]



posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 11:02 PM
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Now, now, we don't believe in that type stuff!

Stick to stuff we can see, like oxygen or gravity or....

Nevermind....

[edit on 27-2-2009 by dodadoom]



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 01:19 AM
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Do we need more discussion on this video?

Internos said it was CGI from a documented encounter right?
The video isn't real then, but the encounter may have been.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 01:20 AM
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reply to post by Odessy
 


Yeah the video is from the documentary 'The Secret KGB UFO Files'... and if Internos thinks it was only a computer generated reenactment then I believe him.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 03:37 AM
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looks like a f-16 model being filmed infront of a video, you cant see the whole jet, looks like someone is holding it there with their hand...



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 03:56 AM
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Originally posted by Revolution-2012
Of course, I'd assume you'd place that as another rorschach test


We're not falling in to that trap. This purpose thread is not to debate every single UFO incident that has ever happened. I cannot debate every incident, I do not have the resources, knowledge or desire to. You would try to claim that any incident I could not explain as mundane would be proof of ET visitation, failing to realize my inability to invalidate your hypothesis is not the same as you proving it


Originally posted by Revolution-2012
How about the phoenix lights? Governor was high on crack?


Let me ask you something. A decade ago, Symington mocked the Phoenix Lights episode, but now he says he saw something. In effect, he lied to you in 1997. So why do you believe him now? Is it just because he is saying what you want to hear?



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 04:04 AM
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Originally posted by Odessy
No one said it was an alien craft...

They said it was a UFO...


Sorry, we are not playing cute semantic games here.

Skeptics were ridiculed (even before a single one posted) for suggesting there may be a mundane explanation and for even saying it fits only a strict definition of the term UFO and nothing more. TheWriter, Brnbrdy, Revolution, dodadoom have all participated in this. In fact, Brnbrdy's challenge in the original-post in implicit that it is something out of the ordinary.

Stop playing the semantic games. The believers in this thread are trying to have it both ways. They refuse to say what they believe this video to represent, but demand skeptics somehow "debunk" it and then attack them for suggesting it is "just" a UFO.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 04:11 AM
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Originally posted by dodadoom
It's funner to put down others and derail the threads instead
of ACTUALLY doing some research to ACTUALLY help out!


As you are taking issue with the skeptics in this thread, could you please tell us what you believe this video to represent and provide your research to back up that belief?


Originally posted by dodadoom
If the people really knew what was going on, they would
only continue to deny it or cut down the messenger


No one has been attacked in this thread. No one has been cut down. Genuine disagreement and supporting your claims with facts is not equivalent to "cutting down the messenger."


Originally posted by dodadoom
Funny how you can tell how true something is, just by the
readings of some of the (im)posters! Thanks!!!



First, could you please tell us what posts you take issue with and why?

Second, you make what you think is a clever, veiled but cliched and lame attack on skeptics. I will remind you of what you said earlier in the same post:


Originally posted by dodadoom
It's funner to put down others and derail the threads instead
of ACTUALLY doing some research to ACTUALLY help out!


You are doing the same thing. You have put down others for not agreeing with you, and have yet to contribute anything useful to this thread. Would you care to correct that?

Third, you are making the tired, cliched, and idiotic implication that skeptics here are "disinformation agents," and only for the crime of disagreeing with believers. Provide one shred of evidence that this is the case.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 04:31 AM
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Originally posted by StonyJ
Hmmmm....I forgot about the third jet that recorded the aforementioned flight......

With the "side-mounted camera", I'll have to say it was an SR-71.

......or a Cessna 182

[edit on 2/27/09 by StonyJ]


The voice on the tape clearly says that the Mig was doing the recording of the American plane. And in the background is UFO.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 04:33 AM
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Originally posted by Odessy
Internos said it was CGI from a documented encounter right?
The video isn't real then, but the encounter may have been.


Oh, well if he said it's fake, it's gotta be.

Seriously dude?



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 04:55 AM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by dodadoom
It's funner to put down others and derail the threads instead
of ACTUALLY doing some research to ACTUALLY help out!


As you are taking issue with the skeptics in this thread, could you please tell us what you believe this video to represent and provide your research to back up that belief?

No, just what I said. I observe and comment on events transpiring.
I am saying the evidence is out there. No need to bring more here.
(Sorry, no aliens in my back pocket)
You either believe or not. UFO's are real or not. Why should I prove anything, the video is supposed to undebunkable! The bearer of proof lies in the skeptics. I'm on his side while he endures the usuall trampling.
Whether they are man made or not, only the gubmnet would really know wouldn't they? If we believed half the stuff ours is doing to us we wouldn't be in the financial fix we are in now. By doubting the whole scenario it only makes it harder for legitimate facts to shine through.
For instance, everyone hollers about the dude(sorry) in gulf breeze that took the UFO photos. A model was found in his attic when he was away.
Did it ever occur to anyone,maybe it was a setup to make the whole thing look bad?
Man only knows what his mind will let him comprehend.


Originally posted by dodadoom
If the people really knew what was going on, they would
only continue to deny it or cut down the messenger


No one has been attacked in this thread. No one has been cut down. Genuine disagreement and supporting your claims with facts is not equivalent to "cutting down the messenger."

I answered this above. Just seems the better the debunking thread,
the more determined some are to say it's swamp gas, CGI, flares, etc.
Thats all I'm saying, with that attitude no amount of proof will ever suffice.


Originally posted by dodadoom
Funny how you can tell how true something is, just by the
readings of some of the (im)posters! Thanks!!!



First, could you please tell us what posts you take issue with and why?
No I wont, you know who you are. So do we.

Second, you make what you think is a clever, veiled but cliched and lame attack on skeptics. I will remind you of what you said earlier in the same post:


Originally posted by dodadoom
It's funner to put down others and derail the threads instead
of ACTUALLY doing some research to ACTUALLY help out!


You are doing the same thing. You have put down others for not agreeing with you, and have yet to contribute anything useful to this thread. Would you care to correct that?
If the shoe fits. Otherwise ignore it.

Third, you are making the tired, cliched, and idiotic implication that skeptics here are "disinformation agents," and only for the crime of disagreeing with believers. Provide one shred of evidence that this is the case.


If I could produce evidence OF THAT, I wouldn't just be some dude on ATS, would I? I'd be a pro getting paid by someone for it. If you are worried about being thought of as a disinfo agent, don't act like one, whomever this may apply to. Who do you all work for?
If you follow my posts and read through the threads you can gather what and who I may be refering to. Remember this is all just speculation right?
If I have to give them a clue everytime they won't learn on their own.
Also, if that help really is needed, mankind is in serious trouble.

For some, even if one flew up their butt, they would still call it swamp gas!!! LOL



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 06:13 AM
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reply to post by dodadoom
 

Dont "act" like a disinfo agent?! Because we say its probably not a UFO??
By your logic saying ANYTHING is disinformation!
We are disinfo agents trying to convince you there are no aliens.
You are a disinfo agent trying to convince us aliens exist when it is really just a government conspiracy to get people to take their minds off of war-profiteering and hypocrisy and injustice in the world.
Religion is a disinformation act trying to get the masses to submit.
Atheism is disinfo because its trying to take people away from god!
Burger King told me I could 'have it my way' yet they still put #ing tomatoes on my whopper! Disinfo!

I know Im overreacting but seriously... aliens dont "exist", there is no solid proof. I could dissuade any argument you had! Video? Hoax. Picture? Photoshop. Witnesses? Actors. Or maybe the people from the article you read dont even exist!

Maybe there are aliens but the proof isnt as solid as you think it is. There is a lot to be gained from the most intelligent (and yes...some not) people focussing their attention on whether aliens exist, rather than trying to help the fallen person right beside them...
Phew. I need a Faxe!



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by Ridhya
I know Im overreacting but seriously... aliens dont "exist", there is no solid proof. I could dissuade any argument you had! Video? Hoax. Picture? Photoshop. Witnesses? Actors. Or maybe the people from the article you read dont even exist!

Maybe there are aliens but the proof isnt as solid as you think it is. There is a lot to be gained from the most intelligent (and yes...some not) people focussing their attention on whether aliens exist, rather than trying to help the fallen person right beside them...
Phew. I need a Faxe!


There is one thing that indicates alien life may very well be a real possibility, more so than any tapes, witness testimony, photos, sighting, abductions or what have you. It's numbers. The vast amount of stars and planets that occupy this universe is more than proof enough that aliens probably do exist. Have they visited Earth? I'm not so sure about that, as even seeing a strange disc in the sky does not provide enough proof that it is being controlled by alien life. I have witnessed a UFO sighting, and I cannot explain it as something natural. I know of no man-made craft that can do that. But, just because I am unaware that humans may be capable of doings such things, doesn't make what I saw a feat of alien life. I believe we have been visited, and I believe we are being visited constantly, but I do not have the ultimate, silence-all-who-disagree proof. It's just my belief based on my personal experience, my wants and my imagination.

However, the same can be said about the reverse scenario. It's only logical that one think about all the possibilities when dealing with UFO sightings. Just as it is possible for it to be controlled by our hands, it's also possible for it to be controlled by intelligent alien life. Because intelligent alien life more than likely exists. The problem I have with some skeptics is that, even when there is no proof of what they are seeing(none of you can prove this is another plane, in this specific sighting), they stand by it being of this nature, when there is no proof. It's like if I were to say; okay, there's no proof that it's NOT a ufo, so I stand by it being a UFO, period. Get it?

You cannot deny that there is a possibility that this may be of extraterrestrial origin.

Another thing to ponder about, dealing with numbers, are the witness testimonies. I'm not talking about the volume of testimonies, I'm talking about the smallest number here...the number 1. Let's take testimony from some of the higherups who have come forward about alien life and our involvement with it as an example. Out of all these testimonies...what are the chances of 1 of them being absolutely right? What if, just what if, out of the hundreds and thousands who have said they have seen this and that, and worked on this project and that project...what if 1 person was being completely honest. Is that possible? I think it is...very much so in fact.

Putting video footage, photos, and testimony from the average joe aside, I take the possibility of numbers as the most solid evidence for alien life, and alien life that has visited Earth.

My 2 cents.

[edit on 28-2-2009 by sdrawkcabII]



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 11:13 AM
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Interesting....

However, watching it over and over again, something feels 'off' with the video.

Mainly, it appears the shadow of the object sort of 'warps around' to the left of it *just* as it enters the clouds below.

Also, when it does enter the clouds it practically vanishes, as in, image then no image. Granted, footage quality and fps could account for that.

Still, I find it strange. Object appears only when the camera passes a conveniently covering cloud allowing for an easy object to appear.

Anyhow, none of what I said is factually accurate, merely observation. I'd love it to be real, but again, it just doesn't feel like real footage to me. Feels like it was doctored. But I'm happy to be proven wrong!



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