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try to debunk this

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posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by Revolution-2012
How about you make an intelligent assumption.

It's *suppose* to be a UFO.


Oh, we've established that. No doubt about it. Can't debate that.

But what do you mean by UFO? Is it proof that people see unidentified flying objects? Of course. But that is not in doubt.

Is it proof of something else? Hardly.

What it amounts to is a live-action, high-altitude Rorschach test.




posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by SaviorComplex
 


Given the situation you're using something retarded in comparison metaphorically, I'd gather the consensus that you are referring this as to nothing more than an explainable high altitude anomaly.

Where's the proof it's anymore rationally explained by, let's say, a meteorite traveling at the same speed as the jet, then randomly shooting downwards with the same speed, than it is a intelligently controlled craft ducking downwards at the relative speed of the jet.

Your attempt to debunk this is going nowhere until you present to me something that can move as fast as a jet and dive *vertically* at that speed.



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 10:01 PM
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reply to post by Revolution-2012
 


You're a fool. It's clearly a meatball avatar sent by our pasta lord and savior, the Flying Spaghetti Monster - spreading his message of love to cover all his creations like a thick mushroom and garlic sauce.

May his noodlie appendage touch us all with his truth.

[edit on 26-2-2009 by Lasheic]



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 10:03 PM
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reply to post by Lasheic
 


OH NOES!!!!

the spaghetti monster strikes again! mid flight this time! we must issue immediate retaliation.



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by Revolution-2012
Your attempt to debunk this is going nowhere until you present to me something that can move as fast as a jet and dive *vertically* at that speed.


It does not dive vertically. It makes a steep drop, but it is not a vertical drop.

While I may not be able to prove that it is a plane, that doesn't mean anything. To paraphrase Sagan, the inability to invalidate a hypothesis is not the same as proving it is true. In other words, what information do you have showing this is an alien craft? Outside of a 10 second clip, you have no other information other than you think it is strange. Prove it is alien.*

(*That is presumptive of me, I know. It is never stated what the claim about this video is. Just a challenge to debunk it.)

[edit on 26-2-2009 by SaviorComplex]



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 10:08 PM
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Sooooooo, I thought this place was pretty well moderated? This thread has been nothing but a joke.



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by Revolution-2012
Your attempt to debunk this is going nowhere until you present to me something that can move as fast as a jet and dive *vertically* at that speed.


It does not dive vertically. It makes a steep drop, but it is not a vertical drop.

While I may not be able to prove that it is a plane, that doesn't mean anything. To paraphrase Sagan, the inability to invalidate a hypothesis is not the same as proving it is true. In other words, what information do you have showing this is an alien craft? Outside of a 10 second clip, you have no other information other than you think it is strange. Prove it is alien.


If evidence of UFO's was a murder case on trial, it would have been convicted and sentanced to death a long time ago with all the photo, and video proof that currently exists. Perhaps even this video itself.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^Post of the month!^^^^^^^^^^^^^



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 10:17 PM
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Time to deny ignorance.

I can try to debunk it, and actually can, because it is a hoax.

It was part of the 'Secret KGB UFO Files' documentary that was released in the mid 90's, hosted by Roger Moore.

The entire documentary was made from hoaxed footage to get ratings and make money.

This is a post I made recently about this very documentary... it contains the thread I originally learned of the hoax, and a link to a page that thoroughly dissects and corrects the huge problems with the documentary and it's footage.


Originally posted by fooffstarr
Can't find the main topic about it here on ATS, but here is the one I started a few years ago:

My original thread

And, this is the link everyone since has pointed me to that details why the film was a hoax:

Kidding Gullible Believers: The Truth Behind The "KGB UFO Files"


For those with short attention spans, this piece of footage was supposedly 'released' by the Russians and shows a Russian gun camera's view of the UFO coming in and out of the clouds.

Several problems.

1) They are Americans planes
2) The gun camera is facing the wrong direction
3) There was no paperwork to prove any release of information was made. Russians were as strict, if not more so, than the Americans in the release of UFO-related material. There was no paper trail associated with any of the footage on the documentary.

[edit on 26-2-2009 by fooffstarr]



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by BrnBdry
If evidence of UFO's was a murder case on trial, it would have been convicted and sentanced to death a long time ago with all the photo, and video proof that currently exists. Perhaps even this video itself.


This is not a court-case we are talking about. It is science. Science and courts have very different standards of proof.


Originally posted by BrnBdry
Post of the month!


Someone is certainly big on themselves...

Post of the Millennium!



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by fooffstarr
I can try to debunk it, and actually can, because it is a hoax.

This is a post I made recently about this very documentary... it contains the thread I originally learned of the hoax, and a link to a page that thoroughly dissects and corrects the huge problems with the documentary and it's footage...


Thank you Foofstarr! I had never seen this video before tonight; it is great to hear from someone who has more information on this case. I'm checking out the link provided now.



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 10:25 PM
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Are you serious? This is a TERRIBLE fake..the "ufo" is sliding around all over the place relative to the background, a classic & telltale sign that the hoaxer couldn't match it up to the motions of the camera or the background so it appears to slide.

Better luck next time.



Originally posted by BrnBdry
This is one of my favorite ufo videos. I've yet to see this here on ATS. Unless I didn't look that hard.

To me this is the proof............. not that I really needed any to begin with.


Enjoy.

www.youtube.com...

[edit on 26-2-2009 by BrnBdry]



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by fooffstarr
It was part of the 'Secret KGB UFO Files' documentary that was released in the mid 90's, hosted by Roger Moore.


Can't seem to find that footage, and American planes are not KGB last time I checked.

Are you suggesting that whoever Roger Moore is was suggesting that they we're KGB craft?




To paraphrase Sagan, the inability to invalidate a hypothesis is not the same as proving it is true. In other words, what information do you have showing this is an alien craft? Outside of a 10 second clip, you have no other information other than you think it is strange. Prove it is alien.



And with that point, i'd say we're at a stand still.

Did I say it was an alien craft? I said quite blatantly, it was a intelligently controlled moving craft.

Due to the quality of the video, we cannot make out what exactly the real shape of that object was, however after watching a few jet videos, you can usually see a jets nose dive 10-25% when descending, in this video it does not from what we can make of it.

--


If it we're to be a "hoax", then there is no way that it was photoshopped, and no way that it was faked in any kind of way. It was a craft, one that we cannot legibly make anything of.



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by Revolution-2012
 


Oh dear. Please read the 2nd link in my post.

They ARE American planes, that is half the problem. The footage was supposedly taken from Russian Migs... but they aren't Migs. They obviously weren't trying very hard to make the footage believable.

Here is part 1 of the documentary. The rest of the parts are in the related material on the right hand side.

It was hosted by Roger Moore, who used to act as 007 in the James Bond films. He was down on his luck and was hired by, most likely the Sci-Fi Channel, to help add 'credibility' to their mockumentary.

Every piece of footage you see in that documentary is hoaxed. The 'experts' were never heard of by the UFO community before the documentary... some of them don't even exist, they are actors.

It is all a farce.



[edit on 26-2-2009 by fooffstarr]



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by atsbeliever
 


Give me some frames to prove that, the shadows on the clouds are exact, and by the quality of the video this wasn't a brand new footage.

Your debunk has failed epically more than the guy claiming KGB hoax.



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by fooffstarr
 


How was it hoaxed.

2



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by Revolution-2012
Did I say it was an alien craft? I said quite blatantly, it was a intelligently controlled moving craft.


First, you left-out my caveat about not knowing what your claim was. And it does not appear by accident either.

Second, please do not insult our intelligence by playing semantic games. You threw a fit when I suggested it may be something mundane and asked what it was proof of outside of a dictionary definition of UFO.


Originally posted by Revolution-2012
And with that point, i'd say we're at a stand still.


Which was my point the whole time. There is not enough information to declare it anything.

[edit on 26-2-2009 by SaviorComplex]



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by Revolution-2012
 


READ THE LINK!!!! 2ND LINK ON MY FIRST POST! GOD!

Oh hell, I'll just quote it for you.



As for the MIG gun-camera footage, I was initially enthusiastic. The script indicated it was duly declassified footage from the Ministry of Defense. But in view of the show's lack of honesty, its authenticity must be questioned. Again, no researchers in Russia or elsewhere ever heard of this footage prior to the TNT broadcast. Declassification procedures in the U.S. and Russia are always accompanied by copious correspondence. It's fairly simple to show official evidence of declassified documents or material. I challenge the producers to put it on their website if they have it. Until they do, the gun-camera footage must also be considered dubious.

Kidding Gullible Believers


Read, inform yourself. Then you can make a judgement on the footage.

It is common knowledge that this documentary was a hoax. I have proven, beyond doubt, in the links and clips, that this particular video is from that documentary.

Oh and don't say 'prove it' again. I won't debate it until you've read the links at least, which you obviously haven't yet.

[edit on 26-2-2009 by fooffstarr]



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by Revolution-2012
reply to post by atsbeliever
 


Give me some frames to prove that, the shadows on the clouds are exact, and by the quality of the video this wasn't a brand new footage.

Your debunk has failed epically more than the guy claiming KGB hoax.


W0rd!

I'll have what he's having please.



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by BrnBdry
W0rd!

I'll have what he's having please.


What do you think it is, Brnbdry. You challenged us to debunk it, but that is a bit difficult considering we do not know what your claim is.



posted on Feb, 26 2009 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by fooffstarr
 


All I see in the "Original Post" is a bunch of people claiming they never had any reports of such events happening, I did not see anything on how the UFO footage was faked.

Until then, fakes or not, it remains a UFO.


And I didn't purposely exclude your comment Savior. I don't know what it is, but I do know by the way the hoax/UFO moves it is controlled intelligently.



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