There Was No Missile At the Pentagon - But the Plane Did Not Hit, page 2
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reply posted on 27-2-2009 @ 10:50 AM by adam_zapple
Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
Originally posted by adam_zapple
This is ridiculous. Craig claims that because a few eyewitnesses mis-judged the flightpath of the aircraft that it couldn't have impacted.


Incorrect. I never claimed that they mis-judged the flight path of the aircraft.


Right...in fact, you assume that they are all correct about the flight path and use that assumption to also assume that they are incorrect about the impat.

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
You claim they mis-judged it.


The fact that the plane hit proves that they misjudged it.

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
Every eyewitness in the area, including the ones in the linked videos, state that the plane hit the Pentagon,


That isn't true. You haven't interviewed every GENUINE witness in the area.


I don't have to. There is no eyewitness account presented in which someone claims that the plane DID NOT hit the pentagon.

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
and there were THOUSANDS who participated in the rescue effort & cleanup who saw the plane parts, bodies, etc.


Thousands? You counted? You talked to them about what they believe now?


Yes, thousands. There's no need for me to interview them...you are the one claiming that no plane hit....and they're the ones who cleaned up the plane that you claim didn't hit.


Well we were given a midnight tour of the Pentagon by a victim/rescue/recovery participant. His letter is displayed on our site.

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
An ACFD Captain and a camerman on scene both don't believe a 757 hit that building. Both were at the Air Florida crash. The fire captain had been on 5 plane crashes in his 29 years and does not believe a 757 hit.


Source?

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
Plane parts blown out onto the lawn and bodies from Pentagon victims are not proof of an impact.


Then perhaps you'd like to tell us what is?


reply posted on 27-2-2009 @ 12:08 PM by Craig Ranke CIT
Originally posted by TruthMagnet
Craig Ranke CIT,

Now I have been reading a lot of your research - and I feel it is quite professional - but some things you seem to be unfairly dismissing.

1) Cab Driver hit by a light pole claims he saw the aircraft go overhead I believe (didn't he?) - he did not mention seeing any explosion causing the pole to fall.


Hi TM,

We most certainly have not "dismissed" the cab driver Lloyde England.

In fact I have spent many hours with the man in person. We interviewed him in 2006 but I re-interviewed him again in 2008 and we even took a road trip together to physically examine the actual cab that he had preserved on his property in the country about an hour and a half from his house in Arlington.

The entire experience is available for everyone to view for free
here.

Please do and feel free to discuss the issue at length in that thread.

However I don't know where you get the notion that the poles were felled by explosives. We have never claimed such a thing and the evidence proves that this did not happen as I explain in detail in this thread.

But more importantly we have demonstrated how not a single witness has been confirmed to have seen the plane hit the light poles at all as outlined in this thread.

Feel free to bump any of these threads if you wish to discuss these separate topics further as this thread is about the fact that there is no evidence for a missile.

Thanks!


2) Wasn't an engine part clearly visible near the hole in the Pentagon - while it has been theorized that this was not a 757 engine part - surely you are not suggesting this had been planted there?


As most people know there were no large sections of aircraft outside of the building and this fact is what got many questioning the event to begin with.

But since we know the plane was on the north side and could not have hit the building we most certainly DO suggest that what few photographed (yet unidentified) parts that were there had to have been planted. And yes that includes this relatively tiny rotor:



As well as these relatively small scraps:




Not a big deal really especially in all the chaos.

Did you know that minutes after local first-responders arrived there was an order to frantically evacuate everyone from the area INCLUDING the fire-firefighters because of reports of another plane coming in?




Could this be when the few scrap parts outside of the building were planted?

Sure but it could have easily happened a number of other ways as well and we know that it DID happen because all of the witnesses saw the plane on the north side.



I am still finding the Pilots for 9/11 truth theory that a drone missle was dropped right before the Pentagon flyby to be more compelling - because it could have clipped the poles AND left the engine part satisfying these two conditions.


Pilots for 9/11 Truth NEVER stated that theory nor do they state any theory at all so I'm not sure where you get that one. You won't be able to provide a quote from the organization making this claim anywhere.

And there is no evidence for such a scenario.

Everyone only saw one plane on the north side of the citgo.


And it seems like that could have happened quick enough to not be intelligently witnessed by even fairly close - but untrained - observers.


We have an interview with Air Traffic Controller Sean Boger who was in the heliport tower as you can view in this thread.

He is not an "untrained observer".

Naturally he had an amazing view from the tower right next to the alleged impact point and he only saw one plane on the north side like everyone else and he did not see anything launch a drone or a missile.

Nobody did because this did not happen.


reply posted on 27-2-2009 @ 03:27 PM by thesneakiod
reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT



So they flew a plane real close, then the exact moment it passed overhead they set of the "bombs" in the building?

How exactly does a plane, that would obviously be banking in to the air at some speed, not get noticed by anyone? How could they possibly take the risk of someone capturing the fly by on camera? Or what if someone caught the explosion at the pentagon but didn't see a plane or a missile?

Are you saying that not one person actually saw a plane fly into the pentagon?

Edit to add: To me your theory sounds like a logistical nightmare. It would be so much easier to use some type of missile or indeed a few nutters to fly a plane in to it.



[edit on 27-2-2009 by thesneakiod]



reply posted on 27-2-2009 @ 03:37 PM by Stillresearchn911
reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT



I know we have been down this road before but I have to say it again...

CIT, you have 13 eyewits , witnesses are notoriously famous for "remembering" a event differently from what they even observed the first time. Not to mention that all of your guys still ultimately believe the plane hit the building. Regardless, you kill me with your talk about scientifically validated whatever ...they are not. They are just a bunch of people who may all be wrong in what they remember.

Don't get me wrong as I have said before I have a Life special 9/11 edition bought right after 9/11 and oddly enough it's graphic of the Pentagon attack shows the NOC approach and impact, same as the Norad video. Strange indeed when you add that with your 13 wits. But then you have the poles and damage path. I hope you hit the mother load and come up with something really big b/c as I'm sure you see the 13 wits aren't gonna cut it alone. If what you say is true than there is more evidence out there to be found, Ill keep reading. GL.


reply posted on 27-2-2009 @ 03:43 PM by Craig Ranke CIT
reply to post by adam_zapple





Ok fair enough.

You don't agree that southern approach witnesses would prove an impact.

Come to think of it.....I will concede that you are right about this.

However north side approach witnesses most certainly DO prove that the plane did not hit.

At least we have established how we both agree that plane parts blown out onto the lawn and bodies from Pentagon victims are not proof of an impact either.



reply posted on 27-2-2009 @ 03:46 PM by TruthMagnet
Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

Hi TM,

We most certainly have not "dismissed" the cab driver Lloyde England.

In fact I have spent many hours with the man in person. We interviewed him in 2006 but I re-interviewed him again in 2008 and we even took a road trip together to physically examine the actual cab that he had preserved on his property in the country about an hour and a half from his house in Arlington.

The entire experience is available for everyone to view for free
here.




Ahh Craig - thanks for getting me up to date!

(I wasn't aware of the many inconsistancies in Lloyde's account)

And as far as the Pilots for Truth - they suggested it in a video - but no I don't believe they specifically endorsed a drone or cruise missle - it was just a theoretical animation they had to help possibly reconcile the pole damage with the North Side approach data.

I think Occams Razor makes a lot of what possibly happened at the Pentagon hard to believe - but people must understand a convoluted (disinformational) approach can be purposefully executed - especially when a much more important principle is considered - Qui Bono?

Thanks you for your tireless efforts on researching this most perplexing event - keep up the great work!




reply posted on 27-2-2009 @ 04:01 PM by Craig Ranke CIT
Originally posted by TruthMagnet
[

Ahh Craig - thanks for getting me up to date!

(I wasn't aware of the many inconsistancies in Lloyde's account)


My pleasure!

Thanks for paying attention.

His account is beyond inconsistent.

It is physically impossible and if you watch the full presentation you can hear how his FBI employee wife admitted that she didn't believe the plane hit and ALSO how Lloyde himself virtually admitted to to being involved when he didn't know he was being recorded. He said:


"One thing about it you gotta understand something when people do things and get away with it, you - eventually its gonna come to me; and when it comes to me its going to be so big I can't do nothing about it."

~Pentagon Taxi Cab Driver Lloyde England




And as far as the Pilots for Truth - they suggested it in a video - but no I don't believe they specifically endorsed a drone or cruise missle - it was just a theoretical animation they had to help possibly reconcile the pole damage with the North Side approach data.


I can assure you that they do not endorse any theory however they certainly do recognize, acknowledge, and argue for the legitimacy of the evidence we present proving the north side approach.

Have you seen their latest full-length release
9/11 ATTACK ON THE PENTAGON?

If not I highly recommend you check it out.



Thanks you for your tireless efforts on researching this most perplexing event - keep up the great work!



You bet!

Thanks for helping to spread the word about this important information.





[edit on 27-2-2009 by Craig Ranke CIT]



reply posted on 27-2-2009 @ 10:14 PM by Insolubrious
Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT


Did you watch the interviews with these working class folk who all watched the plane fly north of the gas station?

After watching them describe their first-hand accounts on-camera on-location do you really think they are liars?




[edit on 27-2-2009 by Craig Ranke CIT]


Of course I watched, at least twice! No, I am not saying they are liars, infact I am saying quite the opposite. I have little reason to doubt their testimony and I do believe they saw 'something' that looked exactly like a plane, lots of people did. But how can you be sure that 'whatever' was flying in the pentagon airspace wasn't a missile dressed up (modified ) to look like a plane? (or vice versa, the plane was converted into a missile). After all, we all saw something that looked just like a plane punch through the steel towers on TV, exploding through the other side of the building. Only missiles can do this. And by extension, whatever they used on the towers was most likely the same deal at the Pentagon. The damage is consistant with a missile. Why is the concept of a dressed up missile so hard to grasp? I still felt that after watching your presentations as it never really cast any doubt on the modded missile theory for me but only re-enforced that idea.



Ever seen one of these? The JASSM (Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile). ^
Look's like a plane. They are pretty big too (compare the size against the truck that it hits @ 1:45).

Also, just because I or anyone else says a 'plane' didn't/couldn't punch through 3 rings of the Pentagon does not mean that person can only conclude that it 'flew over'. If i recall you only have one witness who claims that he thought he saw a fly over. One witness? Or am I wrong there too?



[edit on 27-2-2009 by Insolubrious]
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