Fluoridated water to hit the UK

reply to post by badgerprints


I agree. Personally I am against it, but the important thing about this thread is that 72% percent opposed it. Even if they havn't got a clue what it is, their wishes should be respected.

We put the government in power to assist in the running of the country. If it was a true democracy they would have respected their wishes. The UK should belong to the people, the people who care for it and who's prioritys are doing whats right in the long run, bringing children up in what they thing is a safe example for example.

It should NOT belong to government officials whos only priority is saving money.

As for the posts about cricket and bad teeth.... glad to see that in these hard times and in these heated discussions we can still keep a sense of humor...

Da Da DA Da Da da!!! POMMEY POWER!!!

How many people on this thread support Fluoride in the water-supply?

To me, reading through some of those 'defending' it is almost proof itself that it does exactly what people report.... it makes people accept this far too easily (a people who go-along with the government).

Surely you should all be jumping on the point that it's being dumped in the water when 3/4 of the people asked said NO, it's being dumped in the water when the hampshire council said "no".... instead you say "ok" and "it's safe".

Weird that.

reply to post by AlwaysQuestion


not many. I just said its not poison. If you live under a democracy, and the majority doesn't want it, then Im confused as to how this can be allowed.

Simple, vote them out, don't use tap water, make filter your own from nature and reduce your tax spending and hit the economy by not being a "consumer".

Are you really that much incapable of free will? I guess so since you are English (A sheep)

Originally posted by TheComte
reply to post by HiAliens

 

Sorry, you fail miserably. An article is a long way, a very long way, from a peer-reviewed scientific study. Heck, I can write an article.

Try again.

4. The UK has free dental service, there should be no need to have to put floride in the water to improve on teeth.

It's not actually free. Do you think that dentists don't get any money for their work? The money is paid by the government, coming out of your taxes. The addition of fluoride is meant to reduce the cost of dentistry by reducing cavities and generally making teeth stronger. Now that is proven.

[edit on 27-2-2009 by TheComte]

[edit on 27-2-2009 by TheComte]

Put this in your thinking cap, Perfessor. Why the need to fluoridate the UK population when it is a FACT that the daily food and drink intake of the average British subject meets or exceeds the daily fluoridation goal? The fluoride pushers conveniently ignore this inconvenient fact. Brits like their tea don't they? Loaded--absolutely chock full--of fluoride.

So why pour this poison into the drinking water except to benefit some polluter who'd have to spend millions to legally dispose of it? Follow the money. The so-called public health reason is a smokescreen for the unwashed masses.

The other fact is that fluoridated water has NO benefit to teeth when ingested systemically. Its only--albeit dubious--"benefit" is upon topical application. In fact, cavity prevention could be accomplished much more efficiently and safely using ordinary salt water rinses. The "strengthens teeth" mantra is another bit of quackery. Fact is, the fluoride exposed teeth weaken over time, becoming brittle and displaying unsightly mottling and pitting--called fluorosis.

And guess what? Fixing fluoride-damaged teeth is a real money maker for dentists who perform cosmetic dentistry. Dentists are brainwashed and intimidated by their trade organizations into supporting fluoridation. Woe to any dentist who dares to oppose this pseudo-scientific hokum.

It's one of the great PR scams of the last half-century that this garbage is promoted by your friendly neighborhood dentist when the fact is that non-fluoridated countries have equal of better dental health than the english-speaking countries that utilize it. There are fully fluoridated cities in the U.S. that have terrible tooth decay issues [of course the authorities never connect the obvious dots--only talk about lack of funding for dental care]

Go back to school, Perfessor. The fluorine ion is just about the most chemically reactive ion on the planet. It forms bonds very quickly. It is the chemical bully of the block. It loves to bind to calcium and ACCUMULATES in the body. It is between lead and arsenic in terms of toxicity. SMALL amounts of fluoride are deadly. Fluoride disrupts enzyme activity and is used by scientists specifically for that purpose.

Fluoride loves cartilagenous tissue like joints and the pineal gland [gee . . . isn't that a gland in the brain?]. It doesn't flush out of the body any more than lead or mercury do. Fluoride baths have been used clinically to lower the thyroid activity of patients suffering for overactive thyroid. Guess what drug is one of the most commonly prescribed in the U.S.? Synthroid--a drug taken to STIMULATE thyroid activity! Hmmm . . . anyone connecting the dots out there?

In short, fluoride is a public health nightmare. The Nazi connection is irrelevant and immaterial--a propagandist's straw man.

Originally posted by defcon2
Hi! I was just wondering if anyone has any info as to which other areas in Britain already have fluoridated water?(I can't seem to find anything).Also I think it is pretty outrageous that around 70% voted against getting this put into their water supply,so much for Democracy!!!

You don't have to strap on the tin foil hat to wonder why the Brits have been fluoridating the Irish for years. Now the rest of the Queen's subjects are getting their chance to be poisoned equally. Tally Ho!!

reply to post by HiAliens


While I realize its just not as prestegious as "Prison Planet" in terms of serious medical research perhaps you can, as noted before, please point out peer reviewed research showing and validity or statitical evidence of ANY of your theories using say pubmed or any ACTUAL research article.

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
And please don't believe that they're doing this in the best interests of the people. They don't care about the people.
[edit on 26/2/09 by NuclearPaul]

Exactly.
This is not to "help" the people and we all know it.
To go on pretending that this action is because they care about us -
and not because someone is making a buck off or it - is ludicrous.
It's a convenient and deadly way to dump a toxin -
and we are the recipients.

I havent read the whole blog, so hope this hasn't been covered yet. My question is this: if the water supply is being fluoridated, and no consumption takes place, does your skin still absorb fluoride when bathing in it?

If so, are there any references to research on this?

Originally posted by corvin77
I havent read the whole blog, so hope this hasn't been covered yet. My question is this: if the water supply is being fluoridated, and no consumption takes place, does your skin still absorb fluoride when bathing in it?

If so, are there any references to research on this?

Is fluoridation ethical? Many opponents of fluoridation consider the right of individuals to choose their own medications to be the primary reason for opposition. Is it acceptable for either a minority, or a majority, to forcibly expose everyone in a community to a chemical which may have benefits for some but, risks for all? A person with no teeth has risks with absolutely no benefits. Some individuals who are very sensitive to fluoride are placed at very high risk. Some of us drink a great deal more water than others. Meanwhile, there have been no long-term studies to evaluate the effects of fluoride accumulation in the body over many decades. It is impossible to completely avoid fluoride in a fluoridated community. Many cannot afford the expense, time, and/or effort required to avoid fluoridated water. Even if we manage to use only distilled water for drinking and cooking, we will still absorb some fluoride through bathing. (Fluoridation: A Violation of Medical Ethics and Human Rights)

www.orowma.org...

Fluoridation: A Violation of Medical Ethics and
Human Rights
DOUGLAS W. CROSS, ROBERT J. CARTON, PHD
www.fluoridealert.org...



[edit on 28-2-2009 by spinkyboo]

reply to post by spinkyboo


Thanks spinkyboo

Seems it is everywhere, just did some reading and apparantly it is in cigarettes, alot of medication, like annti depressants.

I checked my medication and guess what, it is one of the ingredients.

So try as we may, avoiding it would be one tough job, if not impossible!

Originally posted by corvin77
reply to post by spinkyboo

 

Thanks spinkyboo

Seems it is everywhere, just did some reading and apparantly it is in cigarettes, alot of medication, like annti depressants.

I checked my medication and guess what, it is one of the ingredients.

So try as we may, avoiding it would be one tough job, if not impossible!

Yes - it is everywhere.
Certainly we don't need to be adding it to our water.
It's a scam.

Originally posted by FredT
reply to post by HiAliens

 

While I realize its just not as prestegious as "Prison Planet" in terms of serious medical research perhaps you can, as noted before, please point out peer reviewed research showing and validity or statitical evidence of ANY of your theories using say pubmed or any ACTUAL research article.

I'll be your huckleberry . . .

Toxicity, Fluoride

[snip]
Fluoride has several mechanisms of toxicity. Ingested fluoride initially acts locally on the intestinal mucosa. It can form hydrofluoric acid in the stomach, which leads to GI irritation or corrosive effects. Following ingestion, the GI tract is the earliest and most commonly affected organ system.

Once absorbed, fluoride binds calcium ions and may lead to hypocalcemia. Fluoride has direct cytotoxic effects and interferes with a number of enzyme systems; it disrupts oxidative phosphorylation, glycolysis, coagulation, and neurotransmission (by binding calcium). Fluoride inhibits Na+/K+ -ATPase, which may lead to hyperkalemia by extracellular release of potassium. Fluoride inhibits acetylcholinesterase, which may be partly responsible for hypersalivation, vomiting, and diarrhea (cholinergic signs). Seizures may result from both hypomagnesemia and hypocalcemia. Severe fluoride toxicity will result in multiorgan failure. Central vasomotor depression as well as direct cardiotoxicity also may occur. Death usually results from respiratory paralysis, dysrhythmia, or cardiac failure.

Death may result from ingesting as little as 2 g of fluoride in an adult and 16 mg/kg in children. Symptoms may appear with 3-5 mg/kg of fluoride.
Estimated toxic dose for fluoride ingestion is 5-10 mg/kg.
Estimated lethal dose is 5-10 g (32-64 mg/kg) in adults and 500 mg in small children.
[end snip]

Excerpts from: “Fluoride in Drinking Water: A Scientific Review of EPA’s Standards” (National Research Council, 2006)
[you can own the pdf for a mere $43]

FLUORIDE’S EFFECTS ON THE BRAIN:

“On the basis of information largely derived from histological, chemical, and molecular studies, it is apparent that fluorides have the ability to interfere with the functions of the brain and the body by direct and indirect means.” p187

“A few epidemiologic studies of Chinese populations have reported IQ deficits in children exposed to fluoride at 2.5 to 4 mg/L in drinking water. Although the studies lacked sufficient detail for the committee to fully assess their quality and relevance to U.S. populations, the consistency of the results appears significant enough to warrant additional research on the effects of fluoride on intelligence.” p6

“Fluorides also increase the production of free radicals in the brain through several different biological pathways. These changes have a bearing on the possibility that fluorides act to increase the risk of developing Alzheimer’s disease.” p186

“The possibility has been raised by the studies conducted in China that fluoride can lower intellectual abilities. Thus, studies of populations exposed to different concentrations of fluoride in drinking water should include measurements of reasoning ability, problem solving, IQ, and short- and long-term memory.” p187

Fluoride Induced Bone Fractures

Fluoride treatment was "associated with a significant three-fold increase in the incidence of nonvertebral fractures, both incomplete and complete...This increased rate of fracturing suggests that bone formed during fluoride therapy has increased fragility."
Riggs BL, et al. (1990). Effect of Fluoride treatment on the Fracture Rates in Postmenopausal Women with Osteoporosis. New England Journal of Medicine 322:802-809.

This is just a sample . . . .

reply to post by FredT


it prooves to me a high rating and working there means NOTHING!

Originally posted by FredT
Man if you guys get flouride in your water, your going to take away the best dig we have. the whole bad teeth thing

On a serious note, think of the improved dental health for the children. many wather systems esp those with wells have natural levels of flouride that exceed US Federal standards for adding it in.

"...improved dental health" is an unproven allegation. I don't get the second sentence at all.

My evidence? The city of Palo Alto was one fo the the first to benifit from a fluorinated water supply and what do I have to show for it 39 years later? Yep never had a cavity.

That's not evidence--it's argument by anecdote. I grew up in fluoridated Chicago. Result: 16 fillings. Cancel.

The flouride issue seems to draw the same type of hysetrical crowd as the anti vaccine crowd. Long on indignation and self richeous blather but short on facts

At least us hysterical, indignant, and self-righteous blatherers can spell "fluoride". Typical lame ad hominem--the counterfeit of argument. Shooting blanks now? No sense in presenting facts when the "true believers" refuse to look through the telescope.

[edit on 2/28/09 by FredT]

Originally posted by RaptureMe2
It's one of the great PR scams of the last half-century that this garbage is promoted by your friendly neighborhood dentist when the fact is that non-fluoridated countries have equal of better dental health than the english-speaking countries that utilize it.

Up to this point, most of your post was based on hearsay, which I can neither prove nor disprove, and challenging the science supporting claims that fluoride is beneficial, and I can definitely respect that challenge.

But this part is where you make your first blatant lie. Places like China, Turkey, etc. have much MUCH worse dental health, and a great deal of it does have to do with very excessive fluoride intake.

Water supplies naturally have Fluoride. It varies amount region to region. The FDA (I believe its the FDA who resides over Fluoride amounts) say that .07 to 1.2 grams per liter is optimal, and 4grams per liter is the absolute max allowed. Many counties have documented 5grams per liter, all the way up to 20 grams per liter of Fluoride in their water, naturally.

There are fully fluoridated cities in the U.S. that have terrible tooth decay issues [of course the authorities never connect the obvious dots--only talk about lack of funding for dental care]

And to blame fluoride for that, or to blame Fluoride for not making their teeth better is a gross misunderstanding of nature. Their are many factors to determining dental health, and to simply say Fluoride isn't working, or that Fluoride is the cause, is to grossly simplify the issue.

Go back to school, Perfessor. The fluorine ion is just about the most chemically reactive ion on the planet. It forms bonds very quickly. It is the chemical bully of the block. It loves to bind to calcium and ACCUMULATES in the body. It is between lead and arsenic in terms of toxicity. SMALL amounts of fluoride are deadly. Fluoride disrupts enzyme activity and is used by scientists specifically for that purpose.

Fluoride loves cartilagenous tissue like joints and the pineal gland [gee . . . isn't that a gland in the brain?]. It doesn't flush out of the body any more than lead or mercury do. Fluoride baths have been used clinically to lower the thyroid activity of patients suffering for overactive thyroid. Guess what drug is one of the most commonly prescribed in the U.S.? Synthroid--a drug taken to STIMULATE thyroid activity! Hmmm . . . anyone connecting the dots out there?

I didn't comment on when it bonds with calcium because I'm not sure how readily Fluoride, having bonded with calcium, is excreted from the body. With that being said, Fluoride DOES get excreted from the body. Fluoride is not like Mercury or Lead, in the sense it is never excreted. Fluoride levels are regulated in the body. Your intake can be positive or negative, depending on intake, absorption, functionality of the kidneys, etc. If it is positive for too long, you will start to suffer the effects of Fluoride poisoning. It is not something you just drop dead from, or something that you cannot recover from.

If your intake is positive, find ways to lower it. Fact is, much more of your fluoride intake is going to come from your diet, than government treated water. If you are drinking from a non treated government water source, you definitely better have some sort of way to detect fluoride levels in the water, as fluoride level can change from run off.

Fluoride results in nature, if runoff had a very high content of Fluoride, and it hit your natural water supply without you knowing, it could potentially kill you, or permanently damage your teeth/bones via fluorosis. It is important to note that the optimal levels of Fluoride content in government treated water supply is USUALLY much less than many natural water supplies.

Although some may have as little as .05 to .5 per liter, many water sources can range from 1gram per liter, up to 20 grams per liter, depending on the area.

With all that out of the way, it does leave the system. You are right, small doses of fluoride can be lethal, that is why you made ZERO sense in claiming Fluoride does not leave the system. If a small dose can kill, and it doesn't leave the system, we would all be dead already.

[edit on 28-2-2009 by grimreaper797]

reply to post by grimreaper797


you seem very much of an apologist for fluoride I suppose you don’t mind all those kids getting fluoride drops or baths if you don’t know what the last one is instantly you don’t understand true fluoride use

reply to post by lasthope


CONGRATULATIONS!!!! You have been nominated for the Black And White award. This award is dedicated to an individual such as yourself who see's the world only in extremes of black and white!
*some restrictions may apply* 1,2,3

1. Restrictions in world view, being able to logically understand the point and meaning behind intent of words, or other misguided assumptions.

2. Not available in select areas (Mensa Meetings, Art Shows, and anywhere requiring an open mind and an ability to interpret information without suggesting it is pro or con an argument.)

3. Award does not indicate winning of any prize, and you get no cookie.



Just because I point out misguided facts, does not mean I am some Fluoride "apologist". There hasn't been much of a pro argument for putting Fluoride in water, and the sole question of a pro argument for Fluoride is "Is fluoride beneficial?" That is a question that is still up in the air when it comes to the oral consumption of Fluoride in water.

Just because I point out that certain arguments have false facts doesn't mean I must be for the other side of the argument. If you had read all my posts thoroughly enough, you'd see that. Thanks for playing though.

[edit on 28-2-2009 by grimreaper797]

reply to post by grimreaper797


"false facts"? What are those? Kinda like "real unicorns"

I use non flouride toothpaste.
Why brush my teeth with posion.

So yeah, elite in your face, I'm using non flouride toothpaste. When i'm prepared. I'm going to take you down. My life is on for it. . The amount of food and artificial nonsense that the elite program and toxify us with is unbelievable. Once you become aware.

Infact when you become aware you become empowered. I'm not to be messed with now

No enitity in this planet will dare try to control me. I was given plenty of gifts and experience to use. No matter what you plan or what you do. You will not stop me from being what i am and what I will do.

flouride, mercury, flu jabs, war on terror, T.V, entertainment, hollywood, bull# and the lot.

All of it, is down the drain. I'm becoming more aware each day. Each day I'm gaining more knowledge. Each day I will tear up your dreams, dry out your blood, and take your greeed and one day. Your life will just bleed and bleed.

Power will return to the people. You just keep pushing it. And your plans will not only fail, but will go right over the edge. The world is rapidly changing. You cannot control it. The creators of this reality are not impressed with the behaviour of the elite. I can assure you of that.

This is my second warning. I'm sure you've heard my first

[edit on 28-2-2009 by universe attracts wisdom]