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Soldier Refuses To Return To Iraq For Immoral Duty

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posted on Feb, 27 2009 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by WisdomInChains
The truth is the guy is scared and rightfully so, but he signed up for it what did he think being a soldier was? His job is to fight he dosnt get to choose where and when if he wants the war to stop mabey he should pettiton Obama, but a firefighter dosnt get to choose which fires he puts out, and a soldier dosent get to choose which war he fights in. If someone told him he had a choice then he was lied to like i siad he should of read the fine print.


Regardless what you or I think on the matter these soldiers refusing to continue fighting obviously Do get to choose. I myself would choose jail over service if the draft was instated. I applaud his stand as an individual. And I hope it spreads like wildfire.
Peace




posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by Mentaltraveler
I myself would choose jail over service if the draft was instated.

That may be the case and that may be the right thing but drafting has not been instated. Therefore your point is null.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by jfj123

It is not the same thing as someone being asked to commit atrocities.

What if, in his mind, that's what he thinks he's being asked to do?

That is not the point. Maybe in the mind of someone the only solution to the world's problems is to wipe out humanity, does that make them right because they think it?


Originally posted by jfj123


It is not up to him to decide whether the Iraq war is lawful.

Really? Then who decides that? Remember, he's not just a soldier, he's an American citizen. Are you familiar with the following
"WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA"....
Take special notice the "We the people" part.


Yeh he has the right to protest against the war. He has the right to vote against it. He does not have the right to refuse to fight when he swore that he would.


Originally posted by jfj123

By following orders he is not breaking international law.

Depends on what those orders are now doesn't it ?

I have already stated the difference between following orders to fight terrorists and insurgents and to defend military outposts and orders that violate international laws and human rights.


Originally posted by jfj123

If he was being told to rape and pillage then he would be in the right for disobeying orders. However he is not being told to do such things and even if he was he should not use that as an excuse to back out of an agreement he made.

Wait a minute, people were tortured by US personnel in Iraq. Maybe he doesn't want to be part of that.
The bush administration KNOWINGLY suppressed intelligence to start the war with Iraq. What would you consider that? If the bush administration claimed the reason they were invading was because of WMD's and they KNEW there were no WMD's, doesn't that mean we weren't going to war for the security of the United States?

If he does not want to be part of that then he should disobey orders that contain such instructions. But that is not part of the point here. Also don't start that rubbish. The US armed Saddam and you should know that.

Besides to just randomly desert in pockets now would do even more harm to the country than staying there. Maybe we should not have gone in in the first place but we did and that is a fact that cannot be undone.



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by Cauch1
It is not the same thing as someone being asked to commit atrocities.

What if, in his mind, that's what he thinks he's being asked to do?


That is not the point. Maybe in the mind of someone the only solution to the world's problems is to wipe out humanity, does that make them right because they think it?

Actually my point is that if that is his thought and he can back it up, which I believe he can, then he has a point.


Originally posted by jfj123

It is not up to him to decide whether the Iraq war is lawful.

Really? Then who decides that? Remember, he's not just a soldier, he's an American citizen. Are you familiar with the following
"WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA"....
Take special notice the "We the people" part.



Yeh he has the right to protest against the war. He has the right to vote against it. He does not have the right to refuse to fight when he swore that he would.

No, he swore to protect and defend his nation. There's a difference.
If ex pres bush decided to start attacking other countries with no reason other then that's what he wanted to do, would you still expect that soldier to fight in the war? If so why? If not, why not? Let's say for example, ex pres bush decided one day he wanted to attack Australia.


Originally posted by jfj123
\By following orders he is not breaking international law.

Depends on what those orders are now doesn't it ?


I have already stated the difference between following orders to fight terrorists and insurgents and to defend military outposts and orders that violate international laws and human rights.

That doesn't explain why we're in iraq.
The soldiers were NOT sent there to fight terrorists or insurgents.


Originally posted by jfj123
If he was being told to rape and pillage then he would be in the right for disobeying orders. However he is not being told to do such things and even if he was he should not use that as an excuse to back out of an agreement he made.


Wait a minute, people were tortured by US personnel in Iraq. Maybe he doesn't want to be part of that.
The bush administration KNOWINGLY suppressed intelligence to start the war with Iraq. What would you consider that? If the bush administration claimed the reason they were invading was because of WMD's and they KNEW there were no WMD's, doesn't that mean we weren't going to war for the security of the United States?


If he does not want to be part of that then he should disobey orders that contain such instructions. But that is not part of the point here. Also don't start that rubbish. The US armed Saddam and you should know that.

That's irrelevant.


Besides to just randomly desert in pockets now would do even more harm to the country than staying there. Maybe we should not have gone in in the first place but we did and that is a fact that cannot be undone.

But it doesn't mean we should continue the mistake, does it?



posted on Feb, 28 2009 @ 03:48 PM
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I applaud this man for having the backbone and moral fibre to state how he really feels after having served in Iraq.

Lots of soldiers would be thinking the same but unfortunately will remain silent for fear of repercussion.


take care all
res



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 04:14 PM
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[edit on 2/3/2009 by Cauch1]



posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 04:15 PM
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Right I am a little rushed for time at the mo so will not be making too long an answer.

Originally posted by jfj123

That is not the point. Maybe in the mind of someone the only solution to the world's problems is to wipe out humanity, does that make them right because they think it?

Actually my point is that if that is his thought and he can back it up, which I believe he can, then he has a point.

Yes he may have a point but that is still avoiding my point that he is still disobeying orders he swore to follow.


Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by Cauch1
It is not up to him to decide whether the Iraq war is lawful.

Really? Then who decides that? Remember, he's not just a soldier, he's an American citizen. Are you familiar with the following
"WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA"....
Take special notice the "We the people" part.

Yeh i am taking notice. He has the right to protest and vote against the war as a CITIZEN but what he is doing is that as a SOLDIER big difference. As one of the people he has the right to voice his opinion but as soldier he should follow orders.

Woul rant more but out of time will be back for more later.



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