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An All Gold, Silver and Metals Thread - Current Information with Live Spot Chart

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posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 02:36 PM
I began a thread today

It is about a webbot prediction of gold and silver prices falling, due to news coming out about "fake gold from China".

Prices have been dropping today. But what is also interesting is this article about gold today, and how countries are quietly buying lots of it:

Major emerging economies are seeking to raise their central banks' gold reserve holdings as fears of a sharp depreciation in the U.S. dollar mount, senior industry officials said on Monday.

Investors have been piling into gold as a safe haven as the the world's worst financial crisis since the 1930s depression sent global stock markets crashing.

"What we are seeing is a reassessment of the risk associated with the high exposure to the dollar. Obviously at the moment you see the dollar appreciating 25 to 30 percent against most currencies around the world, but a lot of that is obviously driven by liquidity."

European central banks, which hold about half of global gold reserves, saw gold sales fall to their lowest levels since 1999, according to Grubb as governments store the precious metal as a buffer against worsening markets.

"Sales were underneath the Central Bank Gold Agreement (CBAG) cap ... the cap was about 400 metric tonnes and I think they sold 356 tonnes ... something is going on."

So I expect this possible "China" news will cause prices to fall, then others will get into it big time - nice manipulation scheme.................

posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 04:01 PM
ATS Gold-buffs might find this an item of interest. Bill Murphy provided the Gold community with special (free) access to yesterday's Le Metropole Cafe postings.

Of special note is Neal Ryan' contribution regarding a possible 220 ton dump by European CB's recently.

Long scroll - Special Access Link - March 4


The 1007 high last month had the bears calling a severe 'double-top' correction. False signal - wishful thinking - flaky math. Solid support @ 887.50. Carry-over from today's mini-reversal puts 1177 in the cross-hairs


posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 12:46 AM
GATA/Le Metropole Cafe' Bill Murphy was interviewed on today. Murphy's rants are always top-drawer.


Speaking of rants, nobody does it better than Jim Willie.

Recorded today:

Got Gold?

Jim and Michele discuss the recent activity in Gold, the gravity defying dollar, and the disintegration of the economy.


Amongst other things, excellent commentary from Jim on the link between derivatives - Fed swap facilities - and the false dollar rally.


posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 11:27 AM

hedge fund managers now buying physical gold!

In the past, hedge funds, which depend on absolute returns to earn high fees, had avoided gold because it does not produce any yield and costs money to store and insure. But those issues have become less important as central banks have pushed interest rates to nearly zero, reducing the yields on currencies.
Hedge fund investors who made money last year by betting against investment banks are now buying gold as a way of betting against central banks.

The gold bulls include David Einhorn, founder of hedge fund Greenlight Capital, who last year came under the spotlight for his short selling of shares in Lehman Brothers, after arguing that the bank did not have enough capital to offset its exposure to falling property prices. Other funds looking at gold include Eton Park and TPG-Axon, investors said.

Investors such as Mr Einhorn are turning to gold because they are worried about the response of the US Federal Reserve and other central banks to the global economic crisis. A bet on gold is essentially a bet against all paper currencies.

“The size of the Fed’s balance sheet is exploding and the currency is being debased. Our guess is that if the chairman of the Fed is determined to debase the currency, he will succeed,” Mr Einhorn wrote in a recent letter to his investors. “Our instinct is that gold will do well either way: deflation will lead to further steps to debase the currency, while inflation speaks for itself.”

Mr Einhorn’s comments – and the revelation he is buying gold itself – are in line with the views held by other large institutional investors in Europe, according to bankers in London. The head of commodity sales at one major bullion bank told the Financial Times that he had never been so busy dealing in gold for large investors in his life.

posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 11:32 AM

link to article:

Silver prices are poised to outperform gold while moving dramatically higher later this year due to increasing investment demand, attendees of the world’s largest mining conference in Toronto were told earlier this week.

Speaking at the Prospectors and Developers of Canada Association (PDAC) annual convention, German investment fund manager Oliver Frank told a packed room at the “Accessing European Capital” forum that silver will likely end the year in the $25 range. This bold projection is almost double current silver prices.
A late 2009 surge in pent-up buying demand, particularly among Europeans, will prove to be the catalyst to silver reaching historic new highs, added the CEO of the Butzbach-based investment fund, Silver Capital AG.

He also believes that heightened global investment demand will also help gold to breach the hallowed $1,500 mark by year’s end – an appreciation of about 60% over its March ‘05 spot price close.
Yet, he believes silver should enjoy a bigger percentage boost in value because physical demand has been consistently outstripping supply in recent years.
“In Europe -- Germany in particular -- everyone is trying to buy silver bars and coins, rather than gold, but there just isn’t the physical supply available. Global above-ground inventories are severely depleted. So, people these days just can’t get their hands on enough silver,”
Frank said
He added that all of these developments will prove to be a boon to ‘emerging primary silver producers’ (ones that don’t extract silver merely as a by-product of gold or base metals mining). This is especially the case now that silver is about to establish a sustained trend reversal, he predicted. It will lead to silver revisiting the $15 level over the next three months, before re-establishing its $20-$21 highs of 2008 by late summer.

posted on Mar, 9 2009 @ 11:37 AM
reply to post by OBE1

Thank you - good audio............. very interesting GREAT INFORMATION!!!

I have sent the audio to a few people now!!! Thank you AGAIN!

[edit on 9-3-2009 by questioningall]

posted on Mar, 10 2009 @ 07:16 PM
Sunday I mentioned in another thread that Gold was about to be tethered to the whipping post in front of this week's treasury auctions. Calendar opened today with a record $34BB 3yr note offering. Can't have Gold competing for 'safe haven' investment $ when Uncle needs to float a total of $67BB in public debt by Thursday.

Another predictable - trade-able takedown - courtesy of GS/JPM.


Singapore's GIC sees more distress in markets

SINGAPORE, March 10 (Reuters) - An official from the Government of Singapore Investment Corp (GIC) said he expects more weakness in financial markets in the next 12-18 months, and recommended investors hold gold and other safe assets such as government bonds.....


posted on Mar, 10 2009 @ 11:10 PM
reply to post by OBE1

You have great information.......... that is why gold is tanking........... well, eventually, after a few tanks on price............... it will be unstoppable......... I predict - the July period......... when it shoots up for good.

Thank you for your informative info!

posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 12:51 AM
Hi QA. Along with the predictable cartel shenanigans, we finaly get some some public info on that 220 ton European CB sale mentioned a few posts back.

ECB-Gold reserves down by 37 mln euros in wk

As reported on the ECB website....

10 March 2009 - Consolidated financial statement of the Eurosystem as at 6 March 2009

Items not related to monetary policy operations

In the week ending 6 March 2009 the decrease of EUR 37 million in gold and gold receivables (asset item 1) reflected the sale of gold by one Eurosystem central bank (consistent with the Central Bank Gold Agreement that came into effect on 27 September 2004) and a purchase of gold by another Eurosystem central bank.

Full Text

EURO 37MM = approx 50.7MM ounces = 178 tons. Apparently the 220 ton total sale was offset by the purchase by one Eurozone CB of approx 42 tons.

That's a lot of supply hitting the market last week. Quoting Bill Murphy from the above linked Le Metropole Special Access Page:

"He [Neal Ryan] just checked in with CP and me this morning.
Forget the mental midget, Muppet gold commentary. This is the real deal and the main reason for gold’s $100+ price drop…

Funny how this important item was missed by all the major Gold pundits.


posted on Mar, 11 2009 @ 11:27 PM

Originally posted by questioningall
I predict - the July period......... when it shoots up for good.

Dunno, I think a wise trader would have covered & turned around near yesterday's low
and the Jr's look totally exhausted here - finally. Select co's with advanced projects - outstanding drill results - are trading a penny's to value


posted on Mar, 14 2009 @ 06:15 PM
I found this March 5, BNN interview on another board today. Apparently David Bensimon (I'm not familiar with his book), predicted a Gold turn date (bottom for this correction) of March 9th. This is the quality of long-term trend analysis that I appreciate - coincidentally , within a day of my March 10th

$2600 by 2014 ? His price objective may be in the ballpark , but imo , Gold tops 2011 - 2012.


BNN interviews David Bensimon

posted on Mar, 16 2009 @ 11:58 AM
It seems - Silver has been in backwardation for awhile now......... which is completely ABNORMAL:


More importantly, silver is in backwardation in London, one of the major markets for trading physical silver. I first drew attention to this phenomenon in my alert on February 15, 2009, noting therein that "silver has been in backwardation since January 21st". Unbelievably, silver is still in backwardation - an incredible and to my knowledge, unprecedented 38 trading days in a row!

What's more, the backwardation is not just one or two months forward. It presently extends three months forward, but during this period silver has been in backwardation for as long as twelve months forward, which is truly phenomenal - and exceptionally bullish.

One can only reasonably conclude that there is considerable stress in the market for physical silver.

Backwardation means that people are increasingly demanding real, physical metal, and not paper promises. It also means that people are starting to doubt the promises of the silver shorts, namely, those banks that have promised to deliver silver at specified future dates. Finally, it means that these banks have made promises to deliver metal that in the aggregate are greater than the physical silver they actually hold. If that weren't true, these banks as well as other holders of physical silver would sell what they own in the spot market in exchange for a futures contract, profiting from the difference in this price disparity. In time, their transactions would eventually eliminate the backwardation. But the backwardation has not been eliminated. Thus, given that the backwardation has remained for 38 days, one can only conclude that there exists an acute shortage of physical silver.

Backwardation is an abnormal state for the precious metals, and markets do not tolerate abnormal states. Arbitrageurs step in to profit whenever markets create unusual opportunities, like the one now existing in silver. But the backwardation prevails. No one is stepping in to sell physical silver in exchange for future delivery, so there is only one possible conclusion. There is not sufficient physical silver available at current prices to meet demand. So unless the shorts can somehow come up with the physical silver they need to meet their obligations to deliver and thereby relieve the backwardation, the price of silver needs to climb higher. It needs to rise high enough to induce holders of physical silver to sell their metal, which the shorts need to buy to meet their obligations to deliver.

posted on Mar, 17 2009 @ 12:16 AM
Metals will definitely go higher at some point in the future. Unfortunately, it will only be a bubble. You have all these people freaking out and wondering where to invest their money. A good proportion of them will put their money into gold, for example, and it will collapse when people realize it has no long term value. So yeah, some people will make a lot of money off whatever sort of metals bubble happens to spontaneously erupt in the near future, but it's definitely not sustainable. Gold is worthless in the long run. Bottom line, it's a gamble.

posted on Mar, 18 2009 @ 05:36 PM
What was Gold telling us as prices flat lined - then dropped ahead of the FOMC?

Gold always makes a trip to the woodshed ahead of the wise-men council - especially hard when the policy announcement will be dollar negative. This was Gold's message.

Predictable - trade-able buying ops....

and when the beach-ball can no longer be held underwater....

Normal market activity ?

Floor trading closed @ $889.10

Fibonacci support 889.60 - Close enough for government work

Dollar plunges as Fed says will buy long-dated Treasuries - I guess that's why they call this - The Dirtiest Picture on the Internet.

Great little interactive tool.

Just click-on the SPX chart to track the coming obscenity.


posted on Mar, 19 2009 @ 11:02 AM
i thought this was a good article for this thread.

posted on Mar, 20 2009 @ 12:04 AM
Thanks for posting that D. Schoon missive turbokid. Gold-Buggery at it's finest - .999% Pure

Snip from today's Le Met Cafe....

"A very good friend in the City today (I've known him for circa 25 years--he is dean of London bond analysts and well informed, spoke with someone he knows in Zurich about precious metals. Zurich friend told Steve that the Fed and Bank of England have been borrowing gold from the ETFs to desperately suppress gold price cuz if it breaks out (presumably above 1000 significantly) 'the game is over'. Same Zurich source also said silver is poised to literally explode at that point."

Dennis Gartman (The Gartman Letter). Dennis should be wearing a neck-brace by now - ever since Jan 08, his market timing has been abysmal. You might recognize him as CNBC' go-to Gold analyst - bearded - bespectacled - mildly pompous. Anyway, even though he slept through Wednsday's moonshot - looks like he finally got it right.

Fed Move Puts ‘Strong Bid’ Under Commodities, Gartman Reports
March 19 (Bloomberg)

....“What the Fed has done is put a strong bid under the commodities such as copper, steel, perhaps the grains, perhaps too energy, but most certainly the precious metals for the long and foreseeable future"....

Full Text

Rick Santelli on Wednesday's suspicious [insider] bond trading - Liesman plays dumb - fun begins around min 6:30 - Weekly Jobless Claims Down


posted on Apr, 15 2009 @ 07:25 AM
I have not posted much in here the last couple of months, though there has been lots of news. Mainly about the manipulation of precious metals.

But it seems there hopefully are going to be some breakouts in the near future.

One breakout, is the fact, some big corporations (ones behind the manipulations) have lowered their "short positions on silver.


We also cannot ignore that the largest of the largest gold futures traders, the traders classed by the CFTC as commercial, have been reducing their collective net short positioning at a fast clip and those same commercial traders now hold a really quite small net short position for silver historically speaking (Gold Newsletter subscribers see the Gold COT and Silver COT sections for much more about that).

The bottom line for this report is that while momentum still probably indicates the path of least resistance is for lower gold and silver very short term, both are reaching levels that are much more attractive for longer-term investors. In the case of silver specifically, a bona fide global shortage of the second most popular precious metal looks to be getting underway.

2 banks are the "shorters"

Regardless of whether or not the net short positioning of the U.S. banks represents “legitimate hedging” of corresponding long positions in other markets, as some analysts and the CFTC have argued, it is abundantly clear that these two banks dominate the COMEX silver market from a short point of view. A position capturing 96% of all the action on one side of a market as small as the COMEX silver market is, by definition, an extremely concentrated position.

The fact that the banks held only short positions and no long positions at all argues against the position being the collective action of multiple clients of the banks. The one-way trade on the COMEX also suggests that the banks have a considerable vested interest in silver trading in one direction – down.

Notice, however, that the last time that the two U.S. banks held so much of the net short positioning was in December 2008, with silver then trading at $9.57 the ounce. The banks then held 98.6% of all the commercial net short positioning on the COMEX. Silver went on to test as much as 50% higher to the $14.60s since then.

The enormously concentrated short positioning of the two large U.S. banks may not be sinister at all. It may be the result of “legitimate hedging” as we have been led to believe. Indeed, we have seen the price of silver advance in the past while the banks held such overwhelmingly large, one-sided short positions that would obviously have benefited from lower silver prices – even recently. Yes, even though the bank’s net short positioning appears sinister, it could possibly be benign, but to many analysts it just plain smells of rotten eggs served with anchovies.

So long as the regulators at the CFTC and the SEC continue to allow the banks to accumulate overwhelmingly large one-sided positioning on the short side (and to go unexplained) it will remain grist for the mills of the conspiracy-minded among us. That is a shame, because otherwise bright and sensible investors may end up avoiding the silver game entirely on the basis of conspiracy-minded complaints, concluding that the silver game is “rigged,” or something along those lines.

Bottom line

With the silver futures contango as flat as a slate pool table, rapidly dropping silver inventories at the COMEX, with the COMEX commercials apparently in a hurry to reduce their net short positioning and with extremely high premiums and spotty availability for retail physical silver products, we have to give silver a more bullish bias going forward.

Another perspective on Silver right now:

A number of different factors have converged, creating what could be a lift-off point for the price of silver (and gold). This confluence of readily verifiable factors shows the silver market to be in a low risk and high reward situation. The factors involve both the paper and physical silver markets. The only question, as always, is if the manipulators, led by JPMorgan and protected by the CFTC, can thwart the set up once prices rally.

The structure in the paper markets, as defined by the CFTC’s latest Commitment of Traders (COT) and Bank Participation Reports, as well as the year-end OTC Derivatives Report by The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, are extremely bullish on any objective historical basis. This means that the commercials, as a whole, have a greatly reduced total net short silver position after the recent engineered sharp sell-off. Normally, when the commercials have forcibly liquidated as many leveraged longs as possible, prices stop declining and begin to rally. This is the rhythm of the market.

Despite the big reductions in net commercial short positions, the ongoing manipulation in silver (and gold), based upon a freakish short concentration, is still evident. If anything, the short concentration has grown more extreme. In COMEX gold futures, the four largest shorts hold more than 98% of the entire commercial net short position. In other words, without the 4 large shorts, there would be little or no commercial short position in gold futures at all. Bank Participation Report data show that three or less U.S. banks are the big shorts, while foreign banks are net long.

There is a lot more in both articles inserted, BUT the long and short of the articles say and deduct. Even though it has been talked about for months - all the manipulation in the metals market, and it has been the "any day it has to end" thoughts.

That "any day it has to end" seems to be coming closer with the short positions now becoming less.

So, are people listening? Are people holding the value of the dollar as it is at this moment for the future expected value due to our printing of money?

Think about, if being able to buy silver at $13.00 or there abouts an ounce right now....... what will happen, if there is just a two fold increase of it and a decrease of the dollar?

Though, every thing I have read, expects a Much Higher increase of price than just a 2 fold increase.......

posted on Apr, 16 2009 @ 08:07 PM
Gold & Silver will probably float around the amount is it at currently for a while longer and has been for some time. Everyone knows there is manipulation within the ETF's and all the short-selling that goes on. There is actually more silver within the Earth's crust but because silver is consumed there is less of it out there.

Nobody can time the markets but it is fairly certain that this dead cat bounce the stocks markets are feeling will come to an end soon. I would be buying gold at the current price, I would buy more at 800 and more again at 950. Average your cost.

Silver is more of a tradable metal. It is volatile and is a nice metal to trade if you can hit the peaks and valleys.

posted on Apr, 16 2009 @ 09:03 PM
To those heavily invested in gold, does it worry you just a bit about the plan to make gold and silver illegal to use in trade or as money?

This is what will happen, I'm not sure exactly when, but it wont be too long, possibly within 2-3 years.

It will be done to insure the new system based on global credit units doesn't have any competition.

It will be done also, to gain total control over all the rogue elements around the world, to bring down the skyrocketing crime levels, and out of sheer necessity.

posted on Apr, 16 2009 @ 09:26 PM
There is no serious talk of that as of now. Maybe in the conspiricy circles but there is no way a global credit system will be in place within 2-3 years.

You have to look at the facts. And those are that China and Russia have been openly talking about creating a new currency. Russia has stated they want it backed by gold and both countries along with Saudia Arabia has begun to horde the metal.

If there is a new gold backed currency created you can bet the States will also back their currency with gold and will probably demand gold from the people as they did in the 30's thus making certificates etc useless.

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