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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Are you honestly that dense, or simply being purposefully obtuse?

Of all the questions and comments I've asked you to respond to, and this is the one you choose to actually do so? And this how you choose to do so? After your constant double speak on this issue, I find the only aspect of this discussion that is 'dense' is your surprise at my question.

Originally posted by darcon
So is alcohol off the table?

As previously mentioned, we've never had any problems associated with members discussing abuse of a generally legal substance such as alcohol. As such, I can't imagine any problems in the future.

You mean I can't discuss drugs on this website?!?!?!?

That's it!

I DEMAND a refund of my membership!!!

Oh, wait..... I didn't pay anything, did I?

*loam moves on to some new topic to justify his indignation*


[edit on 25-2-2009 by loam]

Today will be my last post here at ATS.

I refuse to be a part of a movement that simply doesnt even stand up for its own catch phrase, "Deny Ignorance".

By making this move at your site, you basically desided to "Implore Ignorance".

This is all about money. When they decide to put free speach over money, they are basically saying to their members that they simply dont care about "what this site is about" rather what the bottom line for profits are.

Its sick. ATS has sold out.

Fairwell

Originally posted by Unit541
Of all the questions and comments I've asked you to respond to, and this is the one you choose to actually do so?

Yes. Because I honestly (really) cannot understand how anyone with the core intelligence that enables them to use the Internet would ask such a question... unless their goal was to be obtuse or obfuscate the issue. Really.

I dont support those who brag about getting high. Not at all.

Are prescription drugs that give you a buzz illicit? Is it ok to talk about alcohol????? I think that should be banned. Is it ok to talk about cigarrettes? Thats a drug too.

I think YOU the owners should totally ban any talk of anything that changes your mood, not just illicit, because people get real confused.

If you asked me, i would say this will continue to be a problem and it has been a problem for years.

Frankly, i think PROMOTING the stuff is wrong, but having a discussion about a real fact of life is not wrong.

ALCOHOL KILLS. I would concentrate more on booze. Many of us here take meds.

Just my 2 centavos which wont mean diddy.

Originally posted by JbT
Its sick. ATS has sold out.

Clearly, you have not complete read nor understood the rationale behind this long-considered decision.

I think what is causing confusion is this statement:

ANY discussion of illegal drugs or mind altering substances (even if they are legal in your country, state, province, county or city) ends today

So yes alcohol is legal where I live but so is salvia for example.
And there are "dry" counties in the US and "dry" countries worldwide.

Thus "illicit" and "illegal" can be interpreted differently by different people making an honest mistake.

I never post on these topics so this action is not really an issue for me, I just wanted to say that whilst there are always those who protest just for the sake of protesting, there is also room for honest confusion.

Personally, ATS provides me with all the "mind altering" I require.

I am not familiair with US laws, but are you trying to say that in the US is it illegal to even talk about drugs?
That can't be true, not in the land of the Free!

Otherwise I don't really understand the ATS policy.

So are topics talking about breaking into area 51 going to be banned? Isn't breaking and entering illegal?

What about posts that talk about causing violence of one kind, or another, to one person, or another, they don't like? (criminals, other religions for example)
Is violence accepted? Is violence not illegal?

I'm disappointed in the anti-Cannabis attitude. The Cannabis is taboo attitude is what makes legalization so much harder to achieve.

Are we moving forwards or backwards? ATS is embracing Cannabis ignorance. Does ATS host pharmaceutical adversing or something?

It's not illegal to talk about drugs, or their use, no more than it's illegal to talk about other illegal activities. What are you worried about ATS?

Originally posted by dgtempe
Are prescription drugs that give you a buzz illicit? Is it ok to talk about alcohol????? I think that should be banned. Is it ok to talk about cigarrettes? Thats a drug too.

Here is the line of subtlety that many seem unable to understand.

Because a long list of mind-altering drugs and substances are deemed illegal by the U.S. and other governments, there is a certain "cool factor" in discussing them. There are valid reasons to relax the illegalities, as well as valid conspiracy-related discussions. Unfortunately, not thread on ATS dealing with these more mature notions related to the drug issue has ever completely remained mature.

The illicit nature of these substances makes discussion titillating and desirable for a segment of people. But the non-illicit nature of alcohol, tobacco and prescription drugs has rarely (if ever) resulting in topics on ATS that horribly slid down the slope of immaturity.

And there is the simple equation that resulted in our decision.

Nothing to do with revenue.

Nothing to do with selling out.

Everything to do with our promise of a civil and mature environment to discuss provocative topics.

Left brain 1, Right brain 0.

I find it amusing that the star and flag system isn't allowed for this thread. We can debate someone else's ideas, but site policy is not to be rated by the users.

I'm used to this by now. Hierarchy in web forums always ends up in censorship, debate shaping and user persecution. I can understand the legal reasons why the site owners take these paths, but it's still a loss of freedom for everyone else.

It's not like I am a frequent poster on drug related topics, but to have such a blanket repression of them is, quite simply, wrong.

Congratulations ATS, you have now become a low scale fractal structure of the NWO archetype. You've become a bunch of intolerant management types that wish to take a community of independent people and shape their minds into whatever mould you're using.

Just slap a slogan on it, maybe we won't notice. Deny Ignorance indeed.

The last two links in my signature will help people understand why these sort of things happen, if people so wish to read them. It's a long read but well worth the time and effort imho.

ATS management:

Wow, ATS just lost all of my respect, What next are you all going to tell us we can't talk about?

Does this have to do with sponsors? ADs? Google?

Because a couple of years back I read it does, and if that's the case then ATS owners are just wanting that check in the mail every week from the sponsors instead of talking about the facts.

Seriously this is a bunch of BULL.

Pisses me the hell off that we can't even talk about any kind of DRUG period.

Peace.