The SUSPENSION of illicit drugs/mind altering substance topics on ATS (The experiment failed)

reply to post by skeptic1


Thank you for the a job well done. I'm sure you took a lot of flack for it.

I disagree with you on one point.

Just because the other 95% of the members did not post in this thread does not mean we don't care.

There was nothing I could add that had not already been said several times. I read every single word of this thread as I imagine many others did also and did not post either.

You better believe I care about the content of ATS. My grandchildren watch this site as do my children.

I care about censorship too but I understand why it is necessary. Just go back a few years to Yahoo message boards where there were no moderators. I was part of it and believe me it was not pretty.

Someone made the remark that the people on this thread were dedicated to ATS. There is a big list of members that are on here everyday that are just as dedicated. I guess we are the silent majority.

I support the new committee and hope they and the administration can come to an amicable agreement and allow some leeway in our future discussions.

I did not see any right or wrong side. I saw people of passion trying to solve a problem in the best way they could.

My hat's off to all that contributed to this thread.

Congrats to those voted in!

I for one am happy how this turned out, despite all the drama...

Actually I'm glad the community stood up for this one and stood their ground. Just because something is privately owned, I still believe those that actually make the site what it is, we the contributors, should not allow ourselves to be simply dictated to.

I liken it to society itself. ATS has private owners (the capitalist/upper class), the moderators (supervisors/the boss/the middle class), we the contributers (the labourers/the working class), and a union (This new committee)...

Now what happens in the real world is the upper class will infiltrate the union, using middle and working class instigators and traitors, to undermine it's effectiveness.

Then the middle class, who have more access to media, will start vocally blaming the union for all the mess the traitors caused. Many of the working class, who have been conditioned to accept authority unquestioningly and who are not privy to real inner workings, will believe what they read. Thus the union will be undermined and lose any usefulness it had, and the working class are once again oppressed and coerced with no recourse or mediator.

[I am just kidding btw, I have all the faith in the world that this committee and ATS will do the job very effectively, and 4 of my votes got in ]

In response to a recent posting flurry by the mods, I respectfully request that no attempt be made to "clean up" prior to their postings on the previous page.

Despite what civility and decorum was lost throughout the progression of the thread, I feel that the ability for members to see it all as it transpired is important.

The experience within these pages are a good living education in politics, psychology, perception, and even conspiracy. I am sure others can draw other relevant lessons as well.

reply to post by Ahabstar


Yea it was definitely an experience let me tell you.

There are many things we could have done better.

But i think we succeeded in the long run, the people on the list are very good.

Originally posted by matth
Good. If everything that you are saying is correct and I am in fact wrong, then you and your other fairly-elected committee members should have no problem delaying this issue another 48 hours and agreeing to a re-vote, this time with more potential voters outside of the original group of posters?

There will be no re-vote. The original members are already busy within the DISC forum. You have your selected members who are now working with staff to discuss the issues, concerns, and multi-faceted problems.

Please allow them to work with myself, Springer, and staff in peace (do not attempt to flood them with U2U suggestions) so that a solution may be designed.

OMG OMG OMG!!! I got an idea. I know i'm on no committee and will never be selected buuuuuuttt!! HEAR ME OUT! I got a couple great ideas!

Idea 1) No use of words in TITLE!!! This ones crazy ok I know, but this could stop the newbs from signing up to post about drugs because they see drug threads ^_~. Now this creates a confussing second problem, but, better then the current one yes?

Idea 2) Make it so if your thread contains drugs etc. that you use a TAG to make it so it is only readable or viewable, or maybe postable to members of the forums for at least 30 days? Maybe 60 days? Screw the new guys needing to talk about it. The vets of the forum deserve it without the flack of newbes talking about there acid trip last night. Obviously a person will have there post removed if they dont tag it, and abusing the tag for non drug related threads will also result in removals minus points etc. etc.

Idea 3) FILTERS!!!!! Filter all drug words to other words so that the vets know whats up and the newbs don't got a clue

Just seems to me the over-all issue here is new people with no respect for our forums coming in and bombing us with garbage. So why not focus fire on the newbs and not the vets?

What do you guys think? ? ?

Wonder if I used the word n00bs enough hehe.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I sent it to Skeptic Overlord. This is what I sent, but it may change in the details if it's accepted at all.

This thread is moving fast... so I may as well paste my response here...

The announcement thread has been up for 24 hours. By this time, anyone not providing a substantive commentary within that thread either doesn't care about discussing drugs on ATS, or isn't on ATS all that often. I think the members have their participants within the people who have already contributed (to the thread).

Really... I think the potentially most productive participants are found within those responding to this thread.

As your first sentence says, this thread is moving fast, and I am trying to keep up. but....

I have been reading this thread, though I have not posted, as many others have been saying what I have felt about the situation. I was irritated that I could not use the "star" system.

This is a private site, and you have the right to make any rules you wish. Even if I completely disagree.

Banning discussion on the biggest conspiracy ever, imo the war on drugs, is irresponsible. But, this is not my site, so not my choice.

Peace

edit for typo

[edit on 27-2-2009 by amazed]

Originally posted by smokapot
Man this sucks dude, censorship on ATS.

They sold (what was) this excellent site to some corporation cause they weren't making enough money. Now its become so filled with adds and stupid pop-ups its really hard to enjoy coming here anymore.

Oh well its a big internet so I guess I'll move on, I'll probably be banned for my name anyway.

Deny what again?

I do concur with the sentiments here of censorship. I understand that this staff wants to be "Above" this sort of talk, and they do raise a valid point on banning personal stories of drug use. First off, if you are dumb enough to post in public forums about illicit drug use then you are dumb enough to be flagged by the government and have your ip monitored.

For your own sake, don't post your own drug stories! For the love of God, Krishna, Allah, or whoever you deem divine DON'T incriminate yourself!

It can also be said that we as humans have evolved at least in some way due to environment changes, as well as the consumption of organic chemicals such as cacao and marijuana. They very well may have been the turning point in our evolution. To deny this would be ignorance.

It would also be ignorant to censor someone for speaking of historical references to mind altering experiences. Case in point. The Salem witch trials were created over paranoia because their was mold in the towns rye bread supply and moldy rye produces hallucinogenic effects. In this case,where the "WHY" is in the "Rye" to punish someone for noting this and trying to enlighten the masses would be wrong in my eyes.

In a perfect society the people would be smart enough to self govern. If you don't like ATS's new rules, then move on, right?

On a side note, if your sick of the ads and popups, don't be mad at ATS, they are just trying to get paid! If you don't like it there are great pop-up solutions available for those in the know (Hint, look up AdBlockPlus)

reply to post by jcheney


Thank you for that.

For those who can muster patience, please do.

Congrats to those of you voted in. I don't know any of you personally, but I am familiar with several of you and feel confident that you will do your best, however this ends.

I dooooo, have a question for the mods. Hemp is a hotly debated issue, and is not a drug, it is NOT on the scheduled list of drugs. Many people MISTAKE it as marijuana as they are ill informed and love to live in ignorance, but it is NOT.

In 2004 Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals set a ruling that

(DEA) cannot regulate naturally-occurring THC not contained within or derived from marijuana—i.e. non-psychoactive hemp is not included in Schedule I. The DEA has no authority to regulate drugs that are not scheduled, and it has not followed procedures required to schedule a substance.

en.wikipedia.org...

So why was a thread entitled "the hemp conspiracy" deleted? www.abovetopsecret.com...

A serious question on my part and not at all meant to cause problems. Was their something that took place within that thread that I missed? Personally, I am not sure why it would be completely deleted, Hemp again is NOT included in Schedule I or considered an "illicit drug", so why would the full thread be deleted, and not just a particular post that was breaking rules?

Thanks

reply to post by amazed


In a lot of places, hemp and MJ are one and the same. It isn't right, but it's true.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I have no issue with those who are on the disc committee . But l do take issue with the notion that the members were elected to there offices . In between the time it was still being mooted how it would be found just who was on the committee and me sleeping the vote took place .

Now that is hardly sufficient for the membership to have there say nor was a seperate thread to deal with the matter . So in reality the members were appointed by the consensus of the staff and handful of members . Now I have no problem with this fact but if you continue to claim your current stance then members may rightfully demand that a proper vote .

Originally posted by skeptic1
reply to post by amazed

 

In a lot of places, hemp and MJ are one and the same. It isn't right, but it's true.

In the spirit of debate, and knowing you don't believe in censorship......

Huh? I mean part of me can follow the logic of that type of thinking but... I mean come on. They are not the same, just because someone can't be bothered enough to educate themselves, that means it cannot be discussed?

If that is the case, then how do people become educated? A majority of people used to think the world was flat as well, and if they suspected it was not, they were not allowed to discuss it. And we know what happened with that ey?

Along those lines if someone confuses flour (seen it happen) with something else, does that mean we cannot talk about flour anymore?

Just because someone is mistaken and or uneducated, does not make it acceptable to shut down knowledge and discussion about a particular subject.

Talk about cuddling with ignorance, and this board is supposed to be "above" that.

I would still seriously like a reasonable explanation from the mods.

Peace

Edit for typo

[edit on 27-2-2009 by amazed]

reply to post by amazed


I was just stating fact, not arguing.

I believe it is wrong. It shouldn't be categorized in the same ilk as MJ. But, it is in some places. And, since it is, then the current ban covers it.

Folks, we are working on all of this now. We'll give you all periodic updates on what is going on.

I don't think that it is a matter of people thinking Hemp is MJ...though you certainly have your uneducated who will make that mistake.

I think that the two are so inextricably associated with each other (they are both of the genus Cannibis) that one cannot think of one without the other. So if a hemp thread is started, the MJ crowd will still accumulate.

Which invariably derails a poentially intelligent discussion and that is what this thread is essentially about, in my opinion.

reply to post by skeptic1


I understand you were stating the facts as you knew them. That is why I started with "In the spirit of debate, and knowing you don't believe in censorship...... " I wanted you to understand I was not picking on you, but on the idea of censorship of an item because of people's erroneous beliefs.

Waiting on the updates, and thank you for that.

reply to post by TrustMeIKnow


You could be correct, and I don't claim that this is not a possibility, that some would try and purposefully derail a thread. I would think that is where moderators should then come in and delete those particular messages and use warnings and or bannings.

Peace

Very good, DISC has been chosen, and are working with staff. Maybe it's a good time to click on the six committee person's profiles now, while they're 'in session', in a sort of review of these members' interests, and posts, and threads, and views, and friends, and foes, to get a perspective of, and feeling for them, and see a little more into just who our trusted leaders for the future of the new forum are, whether familiar with them or not, in an effort to be better ready for them when they come back and lay it out to us.

You-know, instead of clicking the 'post reply' button to this thread as much, in an effort to stem the rapid growth of this monster somewhat.

And to contact any of your friends from the boards who share similar interests, but haven't posted here yet, (with a quick overview and update for them so they aren't deterred by the huge volume) to inspire them to come and give some fresh ideas- aside from the existing set of posters here already, in hopes of seeing a more diverse selection of other member's suggestions, besides the ones we keep seeing in such repetetive style.

Now I'll zip-it, and go practice what I preach!

Originally posted by FRIGHTENER
Maybe it's a good time to click on the six committee person's profiles now, while they're 'in session', in a sort of review of these members' interests, and posts, and threads, and views, and friends, and foes, to get a perspective of, and feeling for them, and see a little more into just who our trusted leaders for the future of the new forum are

I did.....

I wish I hadn't!

Fee Fi FOE Fum...I get the feeling we are done!

Originally posted by nerbot
Fee Fi FOE Fum...I get the feeling we are done!

You can take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I can almost vouch for most of the people on the committee... They are a good group of people...

The only problem I have is their refusal to see the situation for what it is: A cleverly orchestrated exercise of passive controls.

Originally posted by FRIGHTENER
Very good, DISC has been chosen, and are working with staff. Maybe it's a good time to click on the six committee person's profiles now, while they're 'in session', in a sort of review of these members' interests, and posts, and threads, and views, and friends, and foes, to get a perspective of, and feeling for them, and see a little more into just who our trusted leaders for the future of the new forum are, whether familiar with them or not, in an effort to be better ready for them when they come back and lay it out to us.

You-know, instead of clicking the 'post reply' button to this thread as much, in an effort to stem the rapid growth of this monster somewhat.

And to contact any of your friends from the boards who share similar interests, but haven't posted here yet, (with a quick overview and update for them so they aren't deterred by the huge volume) to inspire them to come and give some fresh ideas- aside from the existing set of posters here already, in hopes of seeing a more diverse selection of other member's suggestions, besides the ones we keep seeing in such repetetive style.

Now I'll zip-it, and go practice what I preach!

Good morning

I think this is a pretty darn good suggestion that I've quoted. But I would warn you that I for one "friended" all the other DISC representatives on principle after we were confirmed yesterday afternoon, and had not been foe'd by anyone until yesterday. So an equally good way to get a sense of where I stand on this issue is to hit the "thread" button at the bottom of this post and browse through only my responses to this thread.

I was away from the computer by the time we got access to the DISC forum last night, so I'm the last representative to check in there. We're getting right to work, and one of the first items on our agenda is trying to figure out how best to keep the membership at large reasonably informed about the process, and how to solicit and process concerns and suggestions from the membership – as many of you have probably noticed, some of the same suggestions come up over and over with slight variation; it's going to be quite a job just compiling them.

But I think we're up to it; I know that we're all committed to doing everything we can to see the blanket ban lifted.

edit: in terms of contacting like-minded people, please be sure that any efforts in that direction are in compliance with ATS' Terms and Conditions of Membership with regard to soliciting support and forum gangs)

[edit on 2/28/09 by americandingbat]